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Car Forum / Honda Cars / September 2004Increasing fuel mileage by injecting ether.
Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. I'd been wanting to add ether or some octane booster into the fuel tank and adjust the inputs into the O2 sensor to trick it to thinking that it's running rich. In theory, I may save gas. What others tricks would you might attempt on your car? Thanks > Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in > low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks Water injection. Ohgeeze, here we go again. Suddenly it's 1973 all over again, and all the ignorant ideas and dumb scams claiming to increase MPG are popping back up...STAY DEAD, DAMMIT! STAY DEAD! > Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in > low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks > Ohgeeze, here we go again. Suddenly it's 1973 all over again, and all the > ignorant ideas and dumb scams claiming to increase MPG are popping back > up...STAY DEAD, DAMMIT! STAY DEAD! Might I interest you in a Tornado or a bilge blo- excuse me, "electric supercharger"? How about a fuel line magnet or toilet paper oil filter that works wonders...? Slick50, anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Use them all together, and you'll have spent so much money that you'll feel like you've added one and a half squirrels to your engine. Wow! But wait, call now and I'll double your order! Use it on one vehicle and double the perceived effect! All for the low, low price of the GDP of Bhutan! Can you believe it?!? >>Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in >>low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>gas. What others tricks would you might attempt on your >>car?  Signature~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) >> Ohgeeze, here we go again. Suddenly it's 1973 all over again, and all the >> ignorant ideas and dumb scams claiming to increase MPG are popping back [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > supercharger"? How about a fuel line magnet or toilet paper oil filter > that works wonders...? Slick50, anyone? Anyone? Bueller? I heard that you get really good gas mileage if you put sixty pounds of air in your tires, never turn on your lights, signals or wipers, and don't use your brakes. > I heard that you get really good gas mileage if you put > sixty pounds of air in your tires, never turn on your lights, > signals or wipers, and don't use your brakes. I pay NBA players to push my car around during the off-season. Sure, it's expensive, but my mileage is fantastic! Bo Raxo > >> Ohgeeze, here we go again. Suddenly it's 1973 all over again, and all the > >> ignorant ideas and dumb scams claiming to increase MPG are popping back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sixty pounds of air in your tires, never turn on your lights, > signals or wipers, and don't use your brakes. If the poster puts enough BTUs of ether in his engine he could improve his GAS mileage. However, his cost per mile will go up because of the cost of ether. > > >> Ohgeeze, here we go again. Suddenly it's 1973 all over again, and all the > > >> ignorant ideas and dumb scams claiming to increase MPG are popping back [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > his GAS mileage. However, his cost per mile will go up because of the > cost of ether. natural gas retrofits.... -a|ex > I heard that you get really good gas mileage if you put > sixty pounds of air in your tires, never turn on your lights, > signals or wipers, and don't use your brakes. You still on air? I'm on helium for the tires. Makes the car lighter! ;-) > > I heard that you get really good gas mileage if you put > > sixty pounds of air in your tires, never turn on your lights, > > signals or wipers, and don't use your brakes. > > You still on air? I'm on helium for the tires. Makes the car lighter! ;-) Not me. I have hi-lift risers on the rear so I am always going downhill. Harry K > >> Ohgeeze, here we go again. Suddenly it's 1973 all over again, and all the > >> ignorant ideas and dumb scams claiming to increase MPG are popping back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sixty pounds of air in your tires, never turn on your lights, > signals or wipers, and don't use your brakes. Actually, true! I noticed sig'ly better mpg's when my alternator went! Drove for about 2 weeks charging my battery at home/work. Considered leaving the alt. dead! When I bought my Mazda 929, the effing dealer indeed had the tires at 60#--musta had my gas mileage in mind! Actually, I think it was to keep flat spots from forming on the tires in the show-room floor. Something to watch out for... Don't use yer brakes, and coast in neutral whenever you can. ---------------------------- Mr. P.V.'d formerly Droll Troll > When I bought my Mazda 929, the effing dealer indeed had the > tires at 60#--musta had my gas mileage in mind! Actually, I think it was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Don't use yer brakes, and coast in neutral whenever you > can. Actually I think you caught the PDI guy snooozing........ :) Dale P................ On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:04:32 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®" <physical@erols.com> wrote: >When I bought my Mazda 929, the effing dealer indeed had the >tires at 60#--musta had my gas mileage in mind! Actually, I think it was to >keep flat spots from forming on the tires in the show-room floor. Something >to watch out for... The tires had nylon belts/cords? Modern tires don't do that. Bill Funk Change "g" to "a" > >When I bought my Mazda 929, the effing dealer indeed had the > >tires at 60#--musta had my gas mileage in mind! Actually, I think it was to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The tires had nylon belts/cords? > Modern tires don't do that. Ahm *hopin* they were steel-belted radials! If the 60 psi wasn't for show room flat spots, then I have no idea what the 60 psi was for. All four tires were 60, pretty much on the nose. Go figger. The ride was "sporty" to say the least. But mebbe I'll try it again, for a few more mpg's! ---------------------------- Mr. P.V.'d formerly Droll Troll Funk > Change "g" to "a" On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:34:27 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®" <physical@erols.com> wrote: > On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:04:32 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®" > <physical@erols.com> wrote: > > >When I bought my Mazda 929, the effing dealer indeed had the > >tires at 60#--musta had my gas mileage in mind! Actually, I think it was to > >keep flat spots from forming on the tires in the show-room floor. Something > >to watch out for... > > The tires had nylon belts/cords? > Modern tires don't do that. Ahm *hopin* they were steel-belted radials! If the 60 psi wasn't for show room flat spots, then I have no idea what the 60 psi was for. All four tires were 60, pretty much on the nose. Go figger. The ride was "sporty" to say the least. But mebbe I'll try it again, for a few more mpg's! ---------------------------- Mr. P.V.'d formerly Droll Troll ------------------------------------------------------------ My civic had the same 60 psi on all four tires. Called the dealer the next day to complain. They said they forgot to check the tires and that they were inflated to 60 for transportation. Chains that secure the wheels on the truck are used and the tires must not flex. Still max pressure is 44 psi, right on the tire. Bye, Leon >Proctologically Violated©® wrote: >Don't use yer brakes, and coast in neutral whenever you can. Actually the opposite. Coasting in gear shuts off the fuel line. Using your brakes will prevent you from creeping to a stop. You want to apply the brakes at a considerable short distance from where you want to stop. >>Proctologically Violated©® wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a stop. You want to apply the brakes at a considerable > short distance from where you want to stop. It shuts off the fuel line in most cars, but also slows you down something fierce! ---------------------- http://www.saab-900.tk The Saab Tech Resource ---------------------- >Max <max@mailinator.com> wrote >> Ricky Spartacus wrote: > >>Proctologically Violated©® wrote: > >>Don't use yer brakes, and coast in neutral whenever you can. > > Actually the opposite. Coasting in gear shuts off the fuel > > line. Using your brakes will prevent you from creeping to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It shuts off the fuel line in most cars, but also slows you down > something fierce! Most, if not all new practical cars have shut off. At 40 mpg you save about 0.00625 gallon when decelerating from 75 mph. A drop in the bucket but going in neutral waste throw bearing, brakes pads on a decline or just ruins engine mounts for everyday driving. A rule of thumb: speed up briskly but gently, stay in gear, and slow down (fiercely) using engine braking then brake to stop. Rick > >>Proctologically Violated©® wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The Saab Tech Resource > ---------------------- Depending on the tranny. If you are in a slushy in OD there is hardly any engine braking. Harry K > Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in > low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks heh, that will burn up your plugs... you can purchase a honda civic to get better gas mileage. or a hybrid (electric car powered by a generator). strip down your vehicle. lighter weight increases gas mileage. removing a full size spare tire increases gas mileage by 1. put an extended cone at the rear end to reduce drag. put swiss cheese holes behind the front fender to reduce more drag. use the a/c instead of opening the window. etc.. etc... etc.... -a|ex >"Burt Squareman" wrote > Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in > low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > gas. What others tricks would you might attempt on your > car? This Nitrogen Tire Inflator ($5899.99) claims to also boost fuel economy. Not sure how it works but check it out at http://tinyurl.com/6zr8h from northerntool.com. > >"Burt Squareman" wrote > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > This Nitrogen Tire Inflator ($5899.99) claims to also boost fuel > economy. Not sure how it works Using 'fresh' air, oxygen slowly diffuses through the rubber and the tyre pressure goes down hence causing adverse mileage figures. -- Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter. > > >"Burt Squareman" wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Using 'fresh' air, oxygen slowly diffuses through the rubber and the > tyre pressure goes down hence causing adverse mileage figures. And the sad fact is that there's going to be people who actually buy this. Ted >>Using 'fresh' air, oxygen slowly diffuses through the rubber and the >>tyre pressure goes down hence causing adverse mileage figures. > > And the sad fact is that there's going to be people who actually buy this. air has to go somewhere. ive got a road bike that runs 130psi tires, and they need topping off twice a week. so its either diffusing thru the rubber, or thru a leak in the valve stem or something. > >>Using 'fresh' air, oxygen slowly diffuses through the rubber and the > >>tyre pressure goes down hence causing adverse mileage figures. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > they need topping off twice a week. so its either diffusing thru the > rubber, or thru a leak in the valve stem or something. No, what the sad part is, is that people are going to believe that 100% nitrogen diffuses through the tire at a slower rate than plain old air that a compressor sucks out of the atmosphere. Plain old air is 78% nitrogen. Ted >>>>Using 'fresh' air, oxygen slowly diffuses through the rubber and the >>>>tyre pressure goes down hence causing adverse mileage figures. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Plain old air is 78% nitrogen. ok then... so why nitrogen? or why not? are nitrogen molecules bigger than oxygen molecules? would that make a difference? why do shock absorbers use a nitrogen charge? wouldnt a charge of regular air work 78% as well? all my tires have plain old air in em. if given a choice between the two, for no extra charge, why not choose nitrogen? > > No, what the sad part is, is that people are going to believe that 100% > > nitrogen diffuses through the tire at a slower rate than plain old air that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > are nitrogen molecules bigger than oxygen molecules? No. Oxygen atoms are bigger by 1 proton. Nitrogen and Oxygen are elements. > would that make a difference? No. > why do shock absorbers use a nitrogen charge? Because Nitrogen, unlike Oxygen, does not react with everything. Oxygen likes to bind up with different elements it finds. You charge a shock with air, or worse, pure oxygen, and it will rust from the inside out. People think that water creates rust, this is incorrect. What water does is merely act as a carrier for other agents, such as salt, oxygen, and such, to cause the rust. You can for example take a metal part and throw it in a peat bog at the bottom of the bog, where it is immersed in water, then pull it out a month later and there will be little to no rust in it. The reason is that at that level, there's so much bacteria in the water that it sucks all the oxygen out of the water. The same thing happens with shipwrecks that land in deep ocean areas. At that depth there is so little light that the plants and living creatures in the water cannot use photosynthesis to create energy so they burn oxygen out of the seawater, as a result the seawater has little dissolved oxygen in it, and the shipwrecks do not rust away very quickly. > wouldnt a charge of regular air work 78% as well? The holes in tires that air leaks through are far, far, larger than the difference between the sizes of nitrogen and oxygen atoms. > all my tires have plain old air in em. if given a choice between the > two, for no extra charge, why not choose nitrogen? How would pure nitrogen be the same cost as air from an air compressor? This is kind of rediculous. The point of the original post was that some guy is making six thousand dollars a pop off people who don't know enough basic chemistry to know they are being scammed. Just like the guy making $20 a pop off selling magnets to people who don't know enough to bother to look up fuel chemistry in an internal combustion engine. The original post was made to give a little humor, because the poster assumed that everyone in this forum would have enough basic knowledge to see immediately that it was an elaborate scam. Frankly when I first went to the website I thought it was a website put together in pure jest. If you didn't see this right away, you might consider taking some basic science classes at a community college. Once you begin to understand how the world really works, cars and bikes and whatnot will no longer be mysterious black boxes with wheels that go when you press a petal. You will find that you enjoy working on them far, far more when you understand how they really work. It's really a better way to live, trust me. Ted >No. Oxygen atoms are bigger by 1 proton. Nitrogen and Oxygen are >elements. > >> would that make a difference? > >No. Well, maybe a little. But it would favor leaking Nitrogen over Oxygen. The truth is that if there is any difference in the permeation rate, the tire will tend to build up a concentration of the retained gas as it leaks and is refilled with air. If the retained gas was oxygen, that might be bad for a number of reasons. This might be the argument; that you fill the tire with N2 to keep the O2 from building up. Of course, the N2 will leak faster than air so you will have to keep filling it with N2 to prevent this hazardous situation. I saw the N2 fill promotion at a big box store (Costco? Target?) - if you bought tires they filled them with N2. Couldn't find any explanation as to why that was desirable. To play devil's advocate, it is certainly possible (likely even) that different gases would have some effect on the behavior of the tire due to such properties as weight, viscosity, thermal expansion and transfer. I could easily believe that you could tell the difference between Hydrogen and Radon for instance. But I would think the difference between N2 and air would be vanishingly small. What do F1 teams use? >>No. Oxygen atoms are bigger by 1 proton. Nitrogen and Oxygen are >>elements. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > What do F1 teams use? Nitrogen. >>>No. Oxygen atoms are bigger by 1 proton. Nitrogen and Oxygen are >>>elements. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Nitrogen. Try a custom mixture of radon, hydrazine, methyl bromide, and ozone. This will SURELY reduce your tire pressure over time! <g,r,d> Yes, I am just kidding. DON'T DO IT! Signature-john wide-open at throttle dot info >>>No. Oxygen atoms are bigger by 1 proton. Nitrogen and Oxygen are >>>elements. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Nitrogen. Dry air is just as good. Nitrogen is used, because it is cheap and available (already produced), and is dry. There is little call for "dry air". It's cheaper just to use nitrogen. Why? A lot of nitrogen is produced, for the welding industry, and it is inherently dry, as processing (distilling) removes all the moisture. Other than that, nitrogen gas no advantage over dry air, and very little advantage over atmospheric air. Nitrogen is cheap, convenient, and easy to obtain. And it works just fine in tires. :-) Signature-john wide-open at throttle dot info > > > Graham W said: > > >>Using 'fresh' air, oxygen slowly diffuses through the rubber and the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Plain old air is 78% nitrogen. You are the first person to mention nitrogen diffusion! It's oxygen that I said diffuses out. And I have corrected your attributions as well. -- Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter. > This Nitrogen Tire Inflator ($5899.99) claims to also boost fuel > economy. Not sure how it works but check it out at > http://tinyurl.com/6zr8h from northerntool.com. I once read an article where Jay Leno talks about these. He said that racers use Nitrogen because it doesn't have as much pressure variance as the tire heats up, which makes "set it and forget it" possible. Otherwise the tire might pop like John Kerry's hopes for the presidency. You'd have to be some kind of flaming idiot to buy one of these for a Honda Civic though. Can't post, will feed the troll. . . Can't post, will feed the troll. . . Rodney > > This Nitrogen Tire Inflator ($5899.99) claims to also boost fuel > > economy. Not sure how it works but check it out at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > racers use Nitrogen because it doesn't have as much pressure variance as > the tire heats up, which makes "set it and forget it" possible. It's still a scam, though. If this is really a concern the racers can get Helium tanks at any party supply store and use them far cheaper than some $6K compressor. Helium has even less pressure variance than Nitrogen. And I don't see them dragging this thing to the races, either. Any welding supply store can sell Nitrogen in a pressure tank which is a lot more portable and a lot cheaper. Racers are a funny breed. It is true that most of the tricks they use do have a solid basis in fact. But not all of them. Race teams are so competitive that they usually cannot resist trying out every go fast product that someone comes out with. Statistically, some of these products will be installed during an exceptional race or timed run, and it doesen't take much to get a myth started about how some product shaves a second off your run when in reality it does nothing. And once you get the race team convinced the product works, from that point on any test they do of it will be interpreted as supporting the myth that it helps. Ted >> I once read an article where Jay Leno talks about these. He said that >> racers use Nitrogen because it doesn't have as much pressure variance as [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >portable >and a lot cheaper. There is a tire place near me that fills up your tires with nitrogen on request. It's not free, even if you buy tires from them, but I don't think it will be more than $10-20. Problem is that if you do fill up with nitrogen you have to check the "air" in your tires only at that place. It is anal but some people are. It is correctly stated that nitrogen is used by racers to minimize pressure variation due to (extreme) temperatures. "Air" is humid and that contributes to large pressure variation under racing conditions. A nitrogen fill is supposed to be humidity free. Bye, Leon Actually racers use Nitrogen because of a few reasons. One, is that they are familiar with it's expansion rates at various temperatures, which means the alteration in the tires spring rate is a known item. Two, no impurities in the nitrogen to cause problems when the temperature changes. Three, tanks are high pressure and portable, meaning that they only have to carry a couple tanks to the pits. Four, it's cheap and non-toxic. Five, since it doesn't react with many things it is safer than most other gasses and won't cause a problem when a tire fails or a tank ruptures. Oh and it has more uses than just filling the tires. We use it to power the lug guns and the pressurized water tank (used to force water into the engine when it is HOT), SignatureSteve Williams However 6 grand is WAY too steep. You only need a tank of nitrogen and a regulator unit. The regulator will run about 150.00 for a good one. We use a Smith unit. > > This Nitrogen Tire Inflator ($5899.99) claims to also boost fuel > > economy. Not sure how it works but check it out at [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Can't post, will feed the troll. . . Can't post, will feed the troll. . . > Rodney >Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in >low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Thanks Plan your trips so that you are always driving downhill. > Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in > low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > gas. What others tricks would you might attempt on your > car? It might reduce your gas consumption, but I've heard it causes a sharp spike in your ether consumption. Still, it is handy to have a supply of ether available. In case you want to huff it. Or a lawnmower needs starting. If you want more power, just dump a bucket of gas into your throttle body. This creates a super-rich mixture which is good for some reason. I frequently bounce off the wheelie bars in my '95 TC using this approach. Can't post, will feed the troll. . . Can't post, will feed the troll. . . Rodney >Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in >low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Thanks Troll! =plonk!= Signature-john wide-open at throttle dot info > Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in > low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. The amazing thing is, this really works! Not only that, but adding a healthy dose of almost *any* highly combustible hydrocarbon to your engine will save on gas! So, you priced ether by the gallon lately? -- C.R. Krieger (Glad I'm not that dumb) >> Several years ago I've read a book on how to inject ether in >> low amounts into the carburetor to increase gas mileages. > >The amazing thing is, this really works! Not only that, but adding a >healthy dose of almost *any* highly combustible hydrocarbon to your >engine will save on gas! So, you priced ether by the gallon lately? Bugger that. Diethyl ether is expensive. It is the main ingredient is cold starting fluid (aerosol products). Furthermore, it has a VERY low octane value. So does its cousin, dimethyl ether. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=103758 Case in point: Methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) has already been added to fuel, and now it is being banned! It has created more problems than it has solved Did MTBE improve fuel economy? No. Did it reduce emissions? No. Perfect fuel, my a.s! However, ether DOES have some value, for the REAL losers, to wit: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=11308 Here's a free clue (please get this one): Try water injection. It's controversial, at best, because it effectively raises compression ratio, while diluting the charge, as opposed to supercharging for performance, but at least it doesn't constitute TOTAL STUPIDITY. Signature-john wide-open at throttle dot info >However, ether DOES have some value, for the REAL >losers, to wit: >http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=11308 I actually received ether as anesthesia when I was seven years old. It was a vivid experience. As I went under, I dreamed/hallucinated that I was in one of those carts that run on tracks into the mine in all the cartoons. The track was a huge spiral going down, down, down into darkness. Then... blackness. Later - how long I could not say - I was in the same cart only this time I was going up, into the light. I awoke in the hospital room with a splitting headache. It wasn't an experience that I ever felt compelled to repeat. |
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