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Car Forum / Honda Cars / November 2004My experience with a Honda Civic hybrid
I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging 34 mpg. I took it back to the dealer and complained. They said that since it only had 1000 miles, the mileage figure was not what is to be expected, and after a good break-in (he suggested 4000 miles), we should be getting close to the EPA 46/48. We therefore drove the Civic on a 2000 mile interstate trip to get the mileage up. We averaged 40.6 on the interstate trip. We now have almost 5000 miles on the car, and the last two tanks averaged 33 mpg. I think that is ridiculous. If we were getting 43, I would feel scammed, but good night, 33? It's really a crime. Can't wait to see what the dealer says when I take it back in a few weeks for service. I also get very disgusted when some say that it's the way people drive that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. That does sound appalling; I'd be annoyed, too. A September thread here on Civic hybrid mileage may be of interest to you: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=77843a33a6a538ae&rnum=3 Some folks (and consumer agencies) report as you do. Others have better experiences. > I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for > a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. > I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for > a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. A standard engine Corolla will get you better than that... > I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for > a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. with respect, that's not surprising. the only time the hybrid comes into its own is in city driving. constant stop/start consumes a lot of gas with a conventional car. if you live/drive in a non-urban area, the vehicle needs to get the energy to travel from somewhere, and burning gas is the only way to do it. that's how hybrids work well in the city - if the vehicle's not moving, or moving slowly, it doesn't need to burn gas - conventional cars do. > with respect, that's not surprising. the only time the hybrid comes > into its own is in city driving. constant stop/start consumes a lot of I've tried to correct Jim's mistaken impressions before. http://makeashorterlink.com/?K3D0211E9 I don't think Jim has a hybrid, and he argued with me about fundamental concepts of how the Honda IMA system operates. The thread noted here as a Google reference has some postings from me. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=77843a33a6a538ae&rnum=3 I have a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, and I average 43-45 mpg. http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/Honda_Mileage.htm Freeway travel at 70 mph can get above 50, but you have to cruise. "Keeping up with traffic" with goofy speed fluctuations on highway 680 in the SF Bay Area, will cut severely into mileage. Traffic flow is anywhere from 60mph to 85+. I was doing just over 80, third in a pack of cars, when I realized a Chevy Tahoe was running up my butt. The Tahoe changed two lanes to the right to go around me in a gap that I didn't consider large enough to pull over into. When I did find a gap, I dropped back to cruise-control 70mph. I could stay up with the faster traffic, but that just eats into the mileage. It's a little motor, 1300cc. At cruising speed, it is working comfortably, with no hybrid assist. Power for acceleration needs to come from somewhere. It either comes in short bursts from stored battery power, or from overtaxing that little itty bitty engine. I don't believe that hybrid is any sort of scam. I think it works very well for me. I live in a rural area, and do a good bit of interstate driving, so the idea that it is a city-only car is wrong. My daughter has a Chevrolet Metro, which gets over 40mpg on the highway, but she realizes that is a far different car from mine. I also have a Ford Escape Hybrid, but I don't have enough miles on it to comment about the city/highway mileage yet. The electric motor in it is rated for the same horsepower as the Honda gas+IMA. Different vehicle.  Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5 > I also get very disgusted when some say that it's the way people drive > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. the toyotas give better mileage in the city. 40.6 mpg seems like a acceptable mileage for interstate driving, since the battery's assist during hwy driving is at a minimum. So, the 40.6mpg would indicate that th engine is working within spec without any assist from the battery. Also, the 33mpg is a norm for city driving, for a non-hybrid Civic, that's packing an automatic tranny.... Let us know if the mechanic finds anything wrong with the car's Battery Assist. Pars 98 Civic Hatch (36 mpg - combined) > I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for > a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. People who buy them in my area, get them for the HOV lanes. A person at work has one and I asked him about the mileage, he told me he did not care about the mileage, be bought the car for the HOV lanes. If not for the HOV lanes, they would not sell as good as they do now around here (Northern VA) Gary >I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for > a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. > I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for > a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. Interesting. Along with a Pilot and a 01 Prelude, we also have an 03 Civic LX 4 dr 5 speed. I routinely get 36-38 on the highway with the ac on -- we live in GA and it does get hot. Urban driving -- around 33-34. My Prelude -- usually around 27 in mixed highway/urban but I usually run a little harder into the VTEc -- did get 32 on a long trip last year. I run both cars around 80 on trips. >If we >> were getting 43, I would feel scammed, but good night, 33? It's >> really a crime. If I may point out, on a 1200 mile Southern California desert/mountains/cities trip -- 9,000' passes, 85 mpd freeways (cheated a bit for about 1/2 minute slightly over 90 --was still being passed -- USI5) occasionally significant traffic, 1990 Honda CRX, I averaged 39.9 mpg. Quent > >If we > >> were getting 43, I would feel scammed, but good night, 33? It's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Quent I just can't see a hybrid with numbers that work. CRX models, (especially the low end examples), always got superior gas mileage with good payback if one kept the car for a number of years. SignatureJT (Whose next NEW car will be the perfect "water combusting" car when perfected..) > >If we > >> were getting 43, I would feel scammed, but good night, 33? It's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Quent In sum, one could conclude that the higher price you pay for the hybrid will not give payback over a reasonable period of time -- say 100k miles. Then, you are also faced with the cost of battery replacement at some point. > In sum, one could conclude that the higher price you pay for the hybrid will > not give payback over a reasonable period of time -- say 100k miles. Then, > you are also faced with the cost of battery replacement at some point. That's exactly correct. In fact, my Honda salesman says the same thing. > you are also faced with the cost of battery replacement at some point. About $680 at current prices. Let's see what happens when they get to aftermarket. Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5 > > you are also faced with the cost of battery replacement at some point. > > About $680 at current prices. Let's see what happens when they get to > aftermarket. Just wait until AFTER the first lawsuit, where there's an accident and the batteries are blamed for some serious mishap. The legal fees attached to each battery replacement from then on will amount to $2000 per set. That's on top of the battery cost. The batteries will jump seriously in price. > Just wait until AFTER the first lawsuit, where there's an accident and > the batteries are blamed for some serious mishap. D-Cell batteries? What, are they going to be "ejected from the vehicle" and fly through the window of some other car? Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5 > > Just wait until AFTER the first lawsuit, where there's an accident and > > the batteries are blamed for some serious mishap. > > D-Cell batteries? What, are they going to be "ejected from the vehicle" > and fly through the window of some other car? Doesn't matter. All it takes is a lawsuit and some ambulance chaser feeding the perception that "these hybrid things are death traps". Remember when airbags were new? Airbags use corn starch as a lubricant to make sure they don't stick inside their housing. Well, the auto industry didn't bother to be proactive in getting that message out. When airbags started going off, fire departments all over saw the funny white powder and stayed far away, calling for the federal guys in moon suits and declaring the crash site a Superfund site--all because they didn't know what that powder was or how airbags work. (Now, of course, you have firemen banging away at the airbag after the people are rescued, so that they don't have to worry about the airbag going off spontaneously. They just want to make sure the airbag is either set off or taken out of the vehicle.) Anyway, all it takes is an opportunistic lawyer to make these things the subject of lawsuits--which drives up the price of the product. >>If we >>> were getting 43, I would feel scammed, but good night, 33? It's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Quent 1999 honda civic 1.5 vtec-e 115 ps does 40 mpg marcel >I also get very disgusted when some say that it's the way people drive >that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally >without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. What other cars have you driven, and what fuel economy did you get in the other cars, compared to the EPA ratings? Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. > I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for > a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. I'm working on a 1983 Honda Civic FE project. This car was EPA rated at 46 mpg (city) and 59 mpg (highway). Realistically, I would expect about 35 mpg (city) and maybe 45 mpg (highway). My only new car, a 1961 VW beetle got over 50 mpg on extreme highway driving. Soooooooooo, I'm inclined to think that this hybrid crap is a scam if you consider the cost of the car, maintenance, and repair parts/labor. I'll stick with the older carbureted car and depend more on the nut behind the wheel... SignatureJT Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4 > I have read several posts about the Civic hybrid. We have had ours for > a year now.After a thousand miles, with the a/c off, I was averaging [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that is the problem. We live in flat-land and drive it normally > without rabbit starts etc. 33 is disgusting. The 34 mpg and 33 mpg is certainly cause for concern. But I think that you must have something wrong with your particular car. I've had my 2003 Civic hybrid for well over a year. I average just at 40 mpg. The vast majority of the miles are stop and go traffic on the 20 minute drive to and from work. I definitely do not think - as others on this thread have opined - that the hybrid is a "scam". I have thoroughly enjoyed driving mine and have had zero problems. There have been articles explaining that EPA tests are not well suited to judging real-world performance of hybrids. I admit to being somewhat disappointed that I'm not getting in the mid 40's. Still, for the kind of driving I do, 40 mpg is not bad - it's twice what I was getting with the Mazda I had before. I hope you can find an answer from the dealer or elsewhere as to why your car is doing so poorly in the mileage department. > The 34 mpg and 33 mpg is certainly cause for concern. But I think that > you must have something wrong with your particular car. I've had my > 2003 Civic hybrid for well over a year. I average just at 40 mpg. The > vast majority of the miles are stop and go traffic on the 20 minute > drive to and from work. There have been low mileage Hybrid posters in the past, and I asked some pointed technical questions trying to narrow down a vehicle defect, and I don't think I've seen much response. Maybe someone is looking for commiseration, not help. There was a fairly long thread that didn't have a resolution posted http://makeashorterlink.com/?D299522E post #18 has a few troubleshooting questions geared for someone who used to get better mileage. I'm not sure where to start with someone who has never gotten good mileage. I think the most likely culprit is staying with a high speed flow of traffic, instead of cruising. The "average" mileage display, reset on the freeway, should be right around 50mpg at 65-70 mph cruise. Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5 > I definitely do not think - as others on this thread have opined - that > the hybrid is a "scam". its not a "scam"- the technology is real and it works. but it works best in stop and go city traffic. but for people already used to small cars with good economy, it probably isnt worth trading in. |
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