Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2005
1995 Honda Civic Lx 1.5 cooling fan
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ernests131@charter.net - 07 Jan 2005 20:39 GMT The radiator fan on a 1995 Honda Civic I bought a few weeks ago does not come on. I have changed a defective thermoswitch and the new one turns on in boiling water, also replaced the thermostat (the old one was only opening about 1/3),, flushed the radiator and ran the engine for nearly an hour at idle. the temperature went up to about midscale, never even close to red line. The upper hose was very hot and lower hose was not too hot to hold. The new thermostat opens in boiling water. I drained the flush water, it was hot but no where near boiling. How hot does that thermoswitch get before it turns on. I have checked the two wires going into the thermoswitch and there is infinte resisance(key on, engine not running) also put new relay in fuse box(Old one was missing) and fuses too. Do these cars run super hot or have I missed something? Ernie
Mike Iglesias - 07 Jan 2005 21:31 GMT >The radiator fan on a 1995 Honda Civic I bought a few weeks ago >does not come on. I have changed a defective thermoswitch and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >running) also put new relay in fuse box(Old one was missing) >and fuses too. Pull the connector off the thermoswitch and short the pins on the connector together. Turn on the ignition and see if the fan comes on. If not, you'll have to figure out why (bad fan, wiring issue, relay not working, etc).
 Signature Mike Iglesias Email: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926 Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069
ernests131@charter.net - 07 Jan 2005 22:57 GMT Thanks Mike, I was hopeing Honda had hidden a fuse that I didn't kmow about:-). Ernie
> >The radiator fan on a 1995 Honda Civic I bought a few weeks ago > >does not come on. I have changed a defective thermoswitch and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926 > Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069 Remco - 07 Jan 2005 23:08 GMT I think the AC fan relay and the radiator relay are the same partnumber (check the PNs, to be sure).
You could just temporarily swap the relays until you get around to getting the relay from your favorite mail order place (mail older being cheaper than your local dealer). Just don't run your AC until you get the replacement relay.
Regards, Remco
ernests131@charter.net - 08 Jan 2005 18:57 GMT > I think the AC fan relay and the radiator relay are the same partnumber > (check the PNs, to be sure). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Regards, > Remco Thanks Remco,you are right, the three relays in the underhood fuse box are the same. I tried Mike's suggestion to short out the plug to the thermoswitch but nothing happoned. I had previously tested the fan moter and it worked. Have also tested the green wire from the thermoswitch back to the relay and got a solid wire reading with one wire on the relay. I even swapped relays with the new one I had installed. I may just have to shoot it or take it to Honda :-) Thanks again Ernie
Remco - 09 Jan 2005 00:12 GMT Hi Ernie
Well, at least you narrowed it down to it not being the thermoswitch or relay. I'd try to troubleshoot it, because there are not an awful lot of connections in the circuit. Honda will just charge you an arm and a leg for what might just be a bad connection.
When you unplug the relay, make sure you have 12V on one leg of the coil and also 12V on one leg of the contact. Both these connections are tied to separate fuses (the coil's supply seems to go to the underhood fuse box, the contact seems to go to the under dash fuse box).
If you see 12V on both these points, determine if shorting the contact side of the relay will turn the fan on. If not, trace the wire to the fan -- it may be bad or broken and also do what's below regarding checking the fan.
(---checking the thermo sensor leg) If so, the problem must be on the side to the thermo sensor. With the engine cool, you should see 12V on one side of the thermo switch (it is not directly tied to 12V but goes through the relay's coil). The other side of the thermo sensor should be tied to ground. If you don't see 12V on one side of the sensor, the schematic shows that a junction connector exists going to the relay and the ECM -- that connection might be bad. If you don't see ground on the thermosensor, trace that wire back to its origin -- that connection should be a ground and must be loose. You could actually try tying a ground wire to the wire that measures 12V on the thermosensor -- that should turn the fan on if you have a bad ground connection on the thermosensor.
(---- checking the fan leg) If all that checks out ok, check to make sure that one side of the motor is tied to ground. If it is not, the schematic shows a junction connector that must have slipped off.
If that checks out, it must be the fan motor but that is most unlikely -- they don't go very much, I don't think. To absolutely make sure, hit it with a hammer (figuratively, that is) by applying power to it and see if it turns.
Obviously, you can try the above in any order. I'd try to do it myself if I were you. Don't think it will be awfully hard to find and a dealer will just hose you for hours of labor.
Hope this helps. Remco
ernests131@charter.net - 09 Jan 2005 17:56 GMT > Hi Ernie > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > (---checking the thermo sensor leg)
> If so, the problem must be on the side to the thermo sensor. With the > engine cool, you should see 12V on one side of the thermo switch (it is [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Hope this helps. > Remco Hi Remco I have checked the relay and have 12V at contact side (switch off) and have 12V at coil side ( switch on, only), shorted contact side and fan runs like a champ. I do not have 12V at the thermoswitch plugin but do have ground on other wire. I run multimeter check on wire from thermoswitch plugin to relay and got continuity at the coil side of the relay, this leaves me a bit perplexed, could I have continuity through a connection but not have enough volts to run the motor? I am still looking for the connection between the relay and thermoswitch. Thanks Ernie
Remco - 10 Jan 2005 00:37 GMT Hi Ernie
Good, that makes sense one fuse being on all the time, the other is on with the ignition switch on. The following tests will assume you have the ignition on so you'll need 12V on both those contacts on the relay.
Ok, you should have 12V on one side of the thermo switch with the relay plugged in. I should have made that a little clearer. Basically, on one side of the coil you have 12V and, because the switch is open, you should see that 12V on one side of the thermo switch as well. It is weird that you have continuity on from the thermo switch to the coil - I wonder if your socket has a bad connection. They are pinch type connections, so maybe they are somehow bent out too much where the relay just doesn't make contact. Since your multimeter probably has nice fat contacts, you see continuity. Inspect the socket, definitely -- you can bend those contacts back carefully, if that is what's needed.
If that looks ok, put a thin wire in relay socket pins and carefully plug the relay back in. That wire will just be pinched in by the relay. The contact we're intested in is the coil side of the relay that doesn't directly go to 12V -- this way you can see what the relay sees. We're going to test the circuit live this time. Get a temporary wire (clip lead or something like that) and hook it between ground and this wire -- if you see the fan turn on, your relay (including socket) is good. If not, check all contacts on the socket.
if it passes that test, unhook your temp ground connection and measure the voltage across that point and ground. You should see 12V with the thermo switch open. Shorting the thermo switch should make it go to near 0 volt. If you don't seen a change, the wire from the switch to the relay must be bad or the ground is bad. That cliplead test we just did basically emulates what the thermo switch does and we know the relay works -- it has to be wiring to the thermo switch. If you see it change but not to zero volts, it means you have some resistance in the path somewhere. I'd check the ground connection to there thermo switch. Get your clip lead and clip it to the non-ground connection of the thermo switch and ground. If the fan now turns on, your ground connection to the switch is bad. If it doesn't turn on, the wire from the switch to the relay must have some resistance -- perhaps try clipping a lead directly from the switch to the relay and see what happens. It is hard to believe that the wire changed its resistance, but there is a junction connection according to the schematic. One side of that junction does go to the ECM so let's hope we don't have to look in that direction.
Btw, what happens when you turn on the AC? Do both fans turn on?
These problems are a pain to find but think how great you'll feel when you keep that money in your pocket :) You'll get it.
If you need quicker response, you can email me if you'd like. Remco
Randolph - 10 Jan 2005 02:16 GMT <snip>
> When you unplug the relay, make sure you have 12V on one leg of the > coil and also 12V on one leg of the contact. Both these connections are > tied to separate fuses (the coil's supply seems to go to the underhood > fuse box, the contact seems to go to the under dash fuse box). I think you got the fuses reversed. The coil is fused by fuse # 13 in the under-dash fuse box, the live relay contact is fuse by fuse #33 in the under-hood fuse box.
remco - 10 Jan 2005 02:20 GMT > I think you got the fuses reversed. The coil is fused by fuse # 13 in > the under-dash fuse box, the live relay contact is fuse by fuse #33 in > the under-hood fuse box. Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, Ernie is seeing power on both legs so where the fuses are is moot: It would have been nice for him to find just a fuse blown.
ernests131@charter.net - 10 Jan 2005 18:03 GMT Hi Remco You are right again. I tried the thin wire in the relay sccket bit and the fan came on and runs fine. I didn't even need to run jumper to to switch the wire alone took up enough space to make contact. I took the wire out and bent the relay pin just slightly toward the socket (all four) and replaced the relay and fan still worked fine. This has been my first try at a web group and I must say it has been an altogether pleasant experience. Sort of like talking to a friend over the back fence. I could't send this as and email I didn't have your complete address, I think I could have infered it (add 131 to my email to reach me). I wanted to end this post with a solution anyway. My regards to all, I appreciate the help Ernie
SoCalMike - 11 Jan 2005 00:20 GMT > My regards to all, I appreciate the help thats what were all here for. its best to post back to the group anyway, rather than private email. that way we ALL know how things turned out :)
Remco - 11 Jan 2005 01:56 GMT Mike has a good point because someone else might have a similar problem and your experience might help him/her too.
Glad it worked out, Ernie. Feels good to stick that money back in your pocket, doesn't it? :)
Yeah, google mangles email addresses probably for antispam purposes. If you use another newsgroup browser (even outlook express), you'll see everyone's email addresses just fine.
Regards, Remco
TeGGer? - 11 Jan 2005 02:30 GMT > Mike has a good point because someone else might have a similar problem > and your experience might help him/her too. I've saved some of these messages for inclusion in the FAQ, if nobody minds.
The only problem is that the thread's necessarily a bit scattershot, and I'll need to rewrite the data to have a proper flow. If somebody wants to do the rewrite, I'm more than happy to put that up that instead.
 Signature TeGGeR?
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Remco - 11 Jan 2005 02:52 GMT You go right ahead, Tegger - doing a good job on that faq. Thanks! Remco
ernests131@charter.net - 11 Jan 2005 12:47 GMT > You go right ahead, Tegger - doing a good job on that faq. > Thanks! Remco, I didn't answer your Btw question. No the fan did not come on when the ac was turned on. and Tegger feel free to edit and/or rewrite. Thanks Ernie
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