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Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2005Need ingition control module (ignitor in distributor) for 1995 Civic
I NEED AN ICM. IGNITION CONTROL MODULE HELP! This is a charity job. $178 is WAY TOO much to spend at autozone! My local boneyard doesn't have a distributor... gave me a price of $150 to $200 if they can locate one! WHAT? Well I guess that includes a bunch of stuff in it that I don't need. If I can locate one myself, I doubt they'll break out just the ignitor for me. Some kindhearted fellow Honda wrencher got one of these? It's a 95 Civic with 1.5 VTEC. My understanding is it's the same part from 94 (not D15B7, D15B8 OK), 95, 96, 97 (including 1.6) (also VTEC or not), and who know what else??? Wells number is JP129? I'd pay shipping cost plus a small fee if you gotta get something for it (charity job for my efforts, I can charge something for parts if I have to). Hopefully, someone can help me out. I have yet to check ebay. Owner will just unload this car if I can't fix it real cheap. I buy complete parts cars for way less than this! But, I can't wait for one to come through the auction... not to mention the weather here in New Hampshire right now! In2hoppn reply here or reply direct... but not worldpath anymore... it's metrocast instead... Are you talking about the ignitor? That module with four connections inside the distributor, right? I needed one about 1/2 year ago for our Integra and paid about $70 delivered from carpartsamerica.com (there are other places out there that offer similar prices). Remco You can use the larger ICM from a Accord in the Civic distributor. It's larger mass (heatshink) is less prone to failure. What part of the world you live in?????? You have a D15Z1 (VX) motor if live in USA/CAnada. The ignitors of all 92-95 Civic's are the same anyways. $167 from a dealer, Autozone has to be cheaper. There is a great Acura Dealer in Hew Hampshire......... http://www.acuraparts247.com/sunnyside/jsp/home.jsp Here you go, Napa $92.95 http://www.napaonline.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NAPAonline/search_res ults_product_detail.d2w/report?prrfnbr=28520386&prmenbr=5806&usrcommgrpid=80 507427 They might be able to get it for you. > I NEED AN ICM. IGNITION CONTROL MODULE > HELP! This is a charity job. $178 is WAY TOO much to spend at autozone! [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > reply here or reply direct... but not worldpath anymore... it's metrocast > instead... I shopped around a little. Autozone is insane with their price on this item! This honda is NUTS! I HATE HONDA.... PERIOD. (of course, I hate em all, especially whatever brand is currently giving me a headache at the moment!!) : ) This 1995 Honda Civic LX 4 door sedan says VTEC (pronounced VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETEK) on the engine. But, I am now told by someone (who looks to be correct) that 1995 Civic 4 door never came with VTEC. Nowhere on the car is to be found numbers that even vaguely resemble codes D15B7, D15B8, or D15Z1. Are these just "hat" numbers that get pulled out of books or charts (hats)?? Anyway, I think I have a "swapped" engine in this thing. Parts stores and junkyards tell me LX, CX, DX are same distributors, EX is different. And this is supposedly after me telling them this is a VTEC. But then I see in the owners manual that LX and DX are DOHC (nonVTEC), and EX is DOHC VTEC! For what it's worth (or not), this is a Japan model. VIN is JHMEG8669SS027974 What exactly is the difference between VTEC and nonVTEC distributors?? End of shaft? Housing? Innards? I'm looking at used distributors, I'd prefer to get one that can be completely swapped in if necessary! Are the coils the same also? Ever since I discovered I was hooked on to the + coil lead and tach lead on the ignitor, (instead of across the primary side of coil where I wanted to be), I'm no longer completely confident that loosing the signal when it died means conclusively that it's the ignitor. I wonder if intermittant coil failure could still be the culprit. I don't care to hook back up and drive it for another week or two or month before it dies again! (See thread titled "Need advice... 95 Civic dies and won't start, but then starts and is fine." for more info on that) My Vantage meter is worth more than this car. So if someone can tell me how one identifies an actual engine, and/or how one identifies a certain distributor's application concerns... that would be helpful at this point. And one more thing, does the fact that it says VTEC on the engine mean it really has to be? Or can someone just swap that cover?!? Thanks all In2 > You can use the larger ICM from a Accord in the Civic distributor. It's > larger mass (heatshink) is less prone to failure. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Here you go, Napa $92.95 http://www.napaonline.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NAPAonline/search_res ults_product_detail.d2w/report?prrfnbr=28520386&prmenbr=5806&usrcommgrpid=80 > 507427 > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > reply here or reply direct... but not worldpath anymore... it's metrocast > > instead... > Nowhere on the car is to be found numbers that even vaguely resemble codes > D15B7, D15B8, or D15Z1. shouldnt it be *somewhere* on the block? like near the tranny bellhousing? > > Nowhere on the car is to be found numbers that even vaguely resemble codes > > D15B7, D15B8, or D15Z1. > > shouldnt it be *somewhere* on the block? like near the tranny bellhousing? There is an engine number on the block near tranny. But it's not an engine code like these. I'll have to clean it a little better to get the number accurately, but haven't found anywhere yet that references that number to engine type. Thnx for your imput, again! I was looking at a parts website http://pa.partsandacessories.com (it works well to list different vehicles and lets you quickly quote part numbers and prices (steep?)... I found that basically, it's the same coil and ignitor accross the board, D15B7, D15B/Z8, D16Z6, D15Z1... including Del Sol V-TEC DOHC 94 - 95 B16A3. Of couse, not Honda anywhere was listed as a 1.5 VTEC, and D15B8 was not to be found on the entire site! So that's probably the engine I have in this thing ; ) Another parts site did let me look at D15B8 which is under 95 Civic CX (I'm surfing in one window, typing here in another!) and it showed coil and ignitor as same part numbers (different distibutors though). I guess I can get it figured out. But any more info regarding figuring out which engine I have from anyone would still be welcome! Thanks all In2hoppn > This 1995 Honda Civic LX 4 door sedan says VTEC (pronounced > VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETEK) on the engine. > But, I am now told by someone (who looks to be correct) that 1995 Civic 4 > door > never came with VTEC. The 4-door EX came with a 1.6 liter VTEC engine (D16Z6 ?), as did the EX coupe and the Si hatch. The VX hatch had a 1.5 liter VTEC-e engine. All other sizes and shapes had 1.5 liter engines without VTEC. > Nowhere on the car is to be found numbers that even vaguely resemble codes > D15B7, D15B8, or D15Z1. The engine number should be stamped on the upper front of the engine, right next to the transmission bell housing. > Parts stores and junkyards tell me LX, CX, DX are same distributors, EX is > different. And this is supposedly after me telling them this is a VTEC. > But then I see in the owners manual that LX and DX are DOHC (nonVTEC), and > EX is DOHC > VTEC! This is not correct. All the '95 Civic engines were SOHC, with or without VTEC. The question is why the specimen at hand, an LX, has VTEC stamped on the valve cover. A very popular conversion ("mini-me") is to put the VTEC head from the 1.6 liter on the non-VTEC 1.5 liter. Perhaps that is what happened? Or it could be an outright engine swap. > For what it's worth (or not), this is a Japan model. VIN is > JHMEG8669SS027974 This should be a Japanese made (Suzuka factory) 4 door Civic LX with ABS and a 1.5 liter, non VTEC SOHC engine, code D15B7. > What exactly is the difference between VTEC and nonVTEC distributors?? End > of shaft? Housing? Innards? > I'm looking at used distributors, I'd prefer to get one that can be > completely swapped in if necessary! The VTEC head is different from the non VTEC head, so I am not surprised that they use different distributors. Don't know what the differences are, though. Are you sure you need a new distributor? The ignition control unit is replaceable by itself. > Are the coils the same also? > Ever since I discovered I was hooked on to the + coil lead and tach lead on > the ignitor, (instead of across the primary side of coil where I wanted to > be), I'm no longer > completely confident that loosing the signal when it died means conclusively > that it's the ignitor. The ICU is a known weak spot on that generation Civic. > I wonder if intermittant coil failure could still be > the culprit. I don't care to hook back up and drive it for another week or [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > metrocast > > > instead... The difference in the dist. is just the mounting legs. CX/DX/LX non VTEC are the same, the EX/Si/VX are slightly different housing, but same internals. Either way, they all used the same ignitors. > > This 1995 Honda Civic LX 4 door sedan says VTEC (pronounced > > VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETEK) on the engine. [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > > > > > Here you go, Napa $92.95 http://www.napaonline.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NAPAonline/search_res ults_product_detail.d2w/report?prrfnbr=28520386&prmenbr=5806&usrcommgrpid=80 > > > 507427 > > > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > metrocast > > > > instead... > > Parts stores and junkyards tell me LX, CX, DX are same distributors, EX is > > different. And this is supposedly after me telling them this is a VTEC. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This is not correct. All the '95 Civic engines were SOHC, with or > without VTEC. Typo on my part. Manual said SOHC for LX and DX, but did say DOHC VTEC for EX. > The question is why the specimen at hand, an LX, has VTEC stamped on the > valve cover. A very popular conversion ("mini-me") is to put the VTEC > head from the 1.6 liter on the non-VTEC 1.5 liter. Perhaps that is what > happened? Or it could be an outright engine swap. I snagged a nonVTEC distributor on ebay for $30 including shipping. (under the false title VTEC JDM, go figure) A little more research seemed to indicate that both ingitor and coil will be the same regardless. It would have been nice to have a completely swappable one, but those things are definitely a bit pricey! A head swap had not occured to me. That may well be the case. I'll clean up the engine numbers as see exactly what it is. What I deciphered so far just didn't seem to resemble these engine codes. But I'll see what exactly it is and go from there... just out of curriosity now. Also, there is a plug near the distributor plugs (mounted to something on the head, fuel regulator, maybe??) that is not used. It's a green 2 prong plug with nothing nearby to plug into it. It's very dirty, so nothing's been plugged into it for a long time. > The ICU is a known weak spot on that generation Civic. I hope I'm not replacing a weak one with another weak one! But this problem is unique (I hope) in that it dies only when warming up from quite cold (below freezing). Once it gets past this point by sitting 5 minutes (I assume that's because heat continues to flow into it from the engine) it works again and won't fail again. Any problems I've ever seen in the past with ignitors (Ford and Chrysler) have always been when they get hot. Then they work again when cooled down, but fail again when hot again. Or, they quit completely... it's that a little too easy to fix though?? ; ) I think I'll just replace both the coil and ignitor and HOPE it doesn't bother again! Then I can go back to hating my VWs, Buick, Pontiac, GMC van, Chevy truck, Ford Grumman, Wife's Toyota, MTD snowblower,... whatever's next ; ) Or if I make it through to spring, there's always the old KawYamaZukiHondaDavidson! That would be a 77 KZ 1000 (pronounced ten hundred ; ) ) thanks all for the help! I'll post the engine numbers! >>>Parts stores and junkyards tell me LX, CX, DX are same distributors, EX >> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > thanks all for the help! I'll post the engine numbers! ------------------------- I haven't read the whole thread . . . Did anybody remind you about using the heat-sink past on the backside to ensure heat dissipation? Same stuff is used on computer processors. I was even wondering if this was why your original one was failing once it warmed up . . . ? 'Curly' > I haven't read the whole thread . . . Did anybody remind you about > using the heat-sink past on the backside to ensure heat dissipation? > Same stuff is used on computer processors. I was even wondering if this > was why your original one was failing once it warmed up . . . ? > > 'Curly' Yup, knew all about it. AND, forgot all about making sure to have some on hand. Thanks for the reminder! This failure is rather strange, in that it actually only bothers when it's very cold and in the process of warming up. Once it gets completely warmed up, it is 100% dependable. I even had to change the thermostat, as it wasn't running hot enough,... low on temp gauge, poor heater output, and wouldn't maintain torque converter lock-up on the highway. New thermostat solved all that. And the only effect on the ignition failure was that now I only get 2 miles from home instead of 3 to 4 before it quits! WEIRD problem! Doesn't always happen, but when it does it's always the same situation. But the bottom line is this... it does lose spark, and it does not loose the 12 volt feed from ignition switch. So I'm going to swap the ignitor and coil. If either of my replacement are bad, the symptoms probably wouldn't be exactly the same... I hope! Thanks In2 <snip> > Also, there is a plug near the distributor plugs (mounted to something on > the head, fuel regulator, maybe??) that is not used. It's a green 2 prong > plug with nothing nearby to plug into it. It's very dirty, so nothing's > been plugged into it for a long time. There is the smoking gun. At that side of the head, VTEC engines have the VTEC solenoid valve (an electrically operated valve that controls oil flow to the VTEC mechanism). On a car born with VTEC, the ECU has an output to control this valve. If you transplant a VTEC head onto a non-VTEC block, there would not be an ECU output available to control the VTEC solenoid valve. This can be remedied with an after-market VTEC controller or a VTEC ECU transplant. So, it seems you have an incomplete "mini-me" conversion on your hands, stock 1.5 liter block and a transplanted VTEC head with the VTEC solenoid valve not hooked up. What you get is an engine that is fuel efficient, but does not have the extra high-end HP that the a VTEC engine should have. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > efficient, but does not have the extra high-end HP that the a VTEC > engine should have. Now you've done it! ; ) You just opened another can of worms I wasn't going to unleash here, when you said fuel efficient! I can't get 30mpg with this car! Cap, rotor, wires, and plugs all check out fine. I need to check out the timing, which I intend to do before removing distributor. So, I guess I really need some advice regarding differences of timing mark settings to consider if this is a vtec transplant (head or engine) and maybe a short lesson on what exactly VTEC is?? My impression so far was that it changes the valve timing?? Now I take it this change is done via oil pressure??? hmmmm... it might be interesting to know if I can "hot wire" it just to check it out, but this is really a bit of a junker honda (body rust and damage) that the actual owner is on the verge of just unloading it and moving on to something else. Being a good friend of mine, this is why I'm fooling around with used distributors from ebay. I don't mind wasting some time and effort (if my bad back allows it occasionally) but do have to skimp on the money end. I'm hoping to just jumper the appropriate plug and check the base setting. Also hoping to get a peak at the timing belt to see if it's off a tooth or looking in bad shape. The tires are a little oversized for the car, and I've been running only 87 octane fuel. So a couple mpg for each of those issues combined with the cold weather,... maybe fuel mileage isn't quite so bad. It might be fun to toy with that vtec control valve. I'm guessing it needs 12volt square wave. Change in dwell(duty cycle) changes oil pressure which changes valve timing?? And if that's about right (or even if not ; ) ), it's probably more inputs than just rpms in deciding advance rate?? Anyway, I better just get the base setting advanced up enough to begin with. I'm assuming (there's that bad word again) it can electronical retard the timing for knock if necessary... the check engine light does stay off as it should. Thanks to all willing to waste some time here with me! I really enjoy this stuff. My bad back forces me to remain an amateur though! In2hoppn > So, I guess I really need some advice > regarding differences of timing mark settings to consider if this is a > vtec transplant (head or engine) and maybe a short lesson on what > exactly VTEC is?? Follow the two links at this location: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#engines  SignatureTeGGeR? The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Follow the two links at this location: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#engines Nice link! Summed it up quite nicely! Not nearly as complicated as I imagined it might be! How can I NOT hotwire it and just see what it does??? ; ) thanks! >>So, it seems you have an incomplete "mini-me" conversion on your hands, >>stock 1.5 liter block and a transplanted VTEC head with the VTEC [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to unleash here, when you said fuel efficient! > I can't get 30mpg with this car! id guess maybe the original head got warped, and a vtec was readily available. > So, I guess I really need some advice regarding differences of > timing mark settings to consider if this is a vtec transplant (head or > engine) and maybe a short lesson on what exactly VTEC is?? My impression so > far was that it changes the valve timing?? The VTEC system used on that generation Civic was SOHC VTEC. The exhaust valves are in a conventional, fixed timing configuration with 2 pr cylinder. Each cylinder has two intake valves as well, but there are 3 cam lobes and 3 rocker arms driving these two valves. Under normal operation, the primary intake valve follows cam lobe #1, which has moderate lift and timing. The secondary intake valve follows cam lobe #3, which barely lifts the valve. At high RPM / high load, all three rocker arms are locked together and both valves follow cam lobe #2, which has aggressive timing and lift. <snip> > It might be fun to > toy with that vtec control valve. I'm guessing it needs 12volt square wave. > Change in dwell(duty cycle) changes oil pressure which changes valve > timing?? Nope, VTEC is on or off. Apply 12V to the valve opens up for oil pressure that locks the rocker arms together. The newer i-VTEC uses the same system as VTEC for selecting from a set of cam lobes and has added contiguously variable timing as well. > And if that's about right (or even if not ; ) ), it's probably > more inputs than just rpms in deciding advance rate?? Yes. There are things that will lock out VTEC operation altogether (like low coolant temperature). If none of the lock-outs are in effect, the switch over point varies with RPM and manifold absolute pressure. > Anyway, I better just > get the base setting advanced up enough to begin with. I'm assuming [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > stuff. My bad back forces me to remain an amateur though! > In2hoppn You can find the service manual for the car at http://www.hondahookup.com/manuals/USDM_92-95_civic.zip, the challenge is determining what timing marks etc. to use with your hybrid engine. > Nope, VTEC is on or off. Apply 12V to the valve opens up for oil > pressure that locks the rocker arms together. The newer i-VTEC uses the > same system as VTEC for selecting from a set of cam lobes and has added > contiguously variable timing as well. It's been a while since I've hotwired something... seems the last thing was the cold start valve (5th injector) on an 82 VW Rabbit to overcome a cold start issue... Guess you know what my next thing will be! ; ) > You can find the service manual for the car at > http://www.hondahookup.com/manuals/USDM_92-95_civic.zip, the challenge > is determining what timing marks etc. to use with your hybrid engine. Thanks for the link. It's downloaded... I'll get a chance to look at it eventually. Sounds like it may be better than the UK version manual I've been using... I hope! One more thing -- once you do replace it, be sure to put a small blob of heatsink compound under the device (Radio Shack); it will help get rid of the heat. The original one on our Integra did not have any of this stuff under if and may have contributed to its untimely demise. Remco |
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