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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2005Special Oils
I have a 92 Honda Accord LX with 181,000 miles. Is anyone using high milage or synthetic oils in thier high milage Hondas. Do these oils help extend the life of your vehicle? spaceaze Always good to review this topic once in awhile. I personally won't put synthetic into my 1991 Civic, 164k miles, because I have read and heard reports that the synthetic's effects are destructive to various engine oil seals. Others say not so. Keep checking back. > I have a 92 Honda Accord LX with 181,000 miles. > > Is anyone using high milage or synthetic oils in thier high milage > Hondas. Do these oils help extend the life of your vehicle? from what i understand, synthetic doesn't destroy seals, but if you have used dino for a long time, and there is a lot of varnish and buildup on the seals, they dry out. Then, if you suddenly switch to synthetic, the synthetic washes away this sludge. Since the seals are dried out due to the above, they leak. I switched my 98 civic to synthetic at 100000kms. I have a little seapage at my oil pan, but aside from that I NEVER have to add oil. My car has 220000kms on it now. t > from what i understand, synthetic doesn't > destroy seals, but if you have used dino for a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > washes away this sludge. Since the seals are > dried out due to the above, they leak. Old wives' tale told countless number of times over the internet. The problem is that the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base oil in many synthetic oils has a tendency to shrink seals. To counter that an ester base oil and/or seal swelling ingredients are added. Mobil had a huge problem with leaking with the original Mobil 1 because they didn't properly formulate it for seal compatibility. The other thing is that many of the "synthetic" oils sold today don't contain PAO, but a heavily processed petroleum oil. Most of what's sold (in the US) as Castrol Syntec, Valvoline SynPower, QS, Pennzoil are known to be Group III petroleum oils. It's debatable whether or not they're "synthetic", but they are a higher performance than what's sold as conventional oil. Mobil is about the only company that hasn't used a Group III oil and packaged it as a "full synthetic". > I switched my 98 civic to synthetic at > 100000kms. I have a little seapage at my oil > pan, but aside from that I NEVER have to add > oil. My car has 220000kms on it now. With many older cars, the seals may be ready to leak. Add a little bit of a PAO oil and it could shrink a bit before the other ingredients soften up the seals again. >> from what i understand, synthetic doesn't >> destroy seals, but if you have used dino for a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >shrink seals. To counter that an ester base oil and/or >seal swelling ingredients are added. The ester *is* a swelling agent... and it's not impossible that there is some truth to the old wives tale. I believe the branched chain paraffins in all synthetics are somewhat more "mobile" liquids than petro basestocks. >Mobil had a huge problem with leaking with the original >Mobil 1 because they didn't properly formulate it for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >oil. Mobil is about the only company that hasn't used >a Group III oil and packaged it as a "full synthetic". Yeah, we *think* Mobil is still using a true PAO as the principal ingredient:-) - like many others, they truncated the info in their MSDSs a while back so the only way to know is to do the analysis... which I'm not sure anybody has done independently. BTW the hydrotreated petro-stocks sold as synthetic claim to have similar structure molecules as the real synthetics, so are likely to have a similar BuNa swell factor.  SignatureRgds, George Macdonald > >> from what i understand, synthetic doesn't > >> destroy seals, but if you have used dino for a [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > structure molecules as the real synthetics, so are likely to have > a similar BuNa swell factor. I've read that Group III base oils still don't have the performance of PAOs, including inherent cold temp, high temp, and viscosity index. Also - there seems to be a limit on how viscous a Group III oil can be without VI improver. PAOs and PAO/ester blends are reported to be available in a huge range of viscosities, although it's probably not that important in automotive engines. Mobil is still touting Mobil 1 as containing PAOs: <http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils_FAQs.aspx#Mobil_1_FAQs3> "Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil? Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application." <<snip>> >> >The other thing is that many of the "synthetic" oils >> >sold today don't contain PAO, but a heavily processed [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >reported to be available in a huge range of viscosities, although >it's probably not that important in automotive engines. I'm sure you've also read the Chevron paper on hydrocracking and its benefits.:-)... with VI and other characteristics which are more or less as good as PAOs. >Mobil is still touting Mobil 1 as containing PAOs: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade >to its specific application." Well at least they do specify PAO and one hopes they are using "synthetic" in its true sense rather than the BBB Advertising Division adopted term to cater for Castrol. I notice that Castrol has taken down their "confession" page.:-) SignatureRgds, George Macdonald > >Mobil is still touting Mobil 1 as containing PAOs: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Division adopted term to cater for Castrol. I notice that > Castrol has taken down their "confession" page.:-) That may only apply to the Mobil 1 brand. I've heard reports that Mobil's semi-synthetics may use group III as their "synthetic" component. My thinking is, if an older engine can handle the high revs (and occasional redlines), without losing it's oil (or only about 1L per oil-change), the seals are probably good enough condition to handle the synthetic oil. However, if the older engine has never proven itself (always been babied), switching to synthetic is risky business. Note, Mobel-1's 10W30 is a blend is ment for older engine. I'm not sure about the previous model Civic or Accord, but for the 96 and up, 100000km can still be considered a newbie engine and shouldn't have any issues with the synthetic blend (assuming the engine has undergone regular maintenance). Pars 98 Civic Hatch > I have a 92 Honda Accord LX with 181,000 miles. > > Is anyone using high milage or synthetic oils in thier high milage > Hondas. Do these oils help extend the life of your vehicle? > > spaceaze |
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