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Car Forum / Honda Cars / June 200594 Civic: exhaust system replacement
Now that my muffler has broken off "Pipe B" and is dangling, it seems that the time to do the exhaust has come 'round at last. I was told last summer that my "Pipe B" was full of pinholes, but got this far. I'd like to do the work myself to save a little, though really it's the parts that are the major expense. Has anyone done this before? Any pitfalls? I expect I could use a torch for heating stubborn parts, but otherwise it looks pretty straightforward. OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is an aftermarket alternative worth considering? It should last at least as long as OEM, include all ancillary parts (as it appears the OEM kits do), and not have fit problems (Pipe B in particular). I'm not interested in "rice", just want a nice quiet car and not have to chase after additional parts. Will I need gasket compound? What kind? Also, the AutoZone repair guide refers to a "tail pipe cutter" loaner--what for, and will I need it? Thanks, Abe P.S. Had hoped I could do the oil pan gasket at the same time, but it's the front half (Pipe A) that must be removed to get at that... grrr. I guess once the back half is off, why NOT wrestle with rusted nuts on the header?? :-( > Now that my muffler has broken off "Pipe B" and is dangling, it seems > that the time to do the exhaust has come 'round at last. I was told last [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > pitfalls? I expect I could use a torch for heating stubborn parts, but > otherwise it looks pretty straightforward. the pitfall is that if stuff breaks, you're going to have to replace more than you bought. torching can be helpful, but beware of damaging the car - obvious to some but not all from what i've seen. some tips: 1. when wrenching the nuts on the pipes, soak parts in wd40 for a few hours before working. obviously, only apply wd40 to a /cold/ exhaust. 2. use a 6-point socket. 3. use a 1/2" ratchet with a /long/ extension and use both hands to the nut is loaded with pure torque, /not/ bending. if you use no extension and one hand, the nut is loaded with end-on torque & sideways load. this last can cause slippage & damage to the nut making subsequent removal very difficult. again, using the long extension & two hands ensure the nut gets torque only and it /should/ come off, even if it's very stiff initially. > OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is > an aftermarket alternative worth considering? It should last at least as > long as OEM, include all ancillary parts (as it appears the OEM kits > do), and not have fit problems (Pipe B in particular). I'm not > interested in "rice", just want a nice quiet car and not have to chase > after additional parts. there's many online sources of oem standard parts. shop around. > Will I need gasket compound? What kind? Also, the AutoZone repair guide > refers to a "tail pipe cutter" loaner--what for, and will I need it? no. none. no. not if you use oem & the oem gaskets. > Thanks, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > guess once the back half is off, why NOT wrestle with rusted nuts on the > header?? :-( header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not here in california. but you'll need the header gaskets... > header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not > here in california. In an area with snow, exhaust manifold nuts are treacherous. There is an excellent chance that at least one stud will break off inside the head. Then you've got to remove the rad and A/C condenser in order to drill it out, while taking excruciating care not to damage the threads in the soft aluminum head. You can drill without removing the rad, but it's a lot more awkward. Bitch of a job. Some of the stud nuts will screw off normally, others will be frozen and you'll end up winding the stud right out of the head, which is not itself a problem. Even soaking with penetrant does not necessarily do any good.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not >>here in california. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > aluminum head. You can drill without removing the rad, but it's a lot more > awkward. Bitch of a job. This car started out in VA, then spent a couple of years in Buffalo, NY. When I bought it one of the significant selling points was that it has hardly any rust--the contrast with my old clunker was quite astonishing. I may skip the oil pan gasket this time, though (not critical, I think my engine seal is leaking more, have to look closer), but will try to soak those nuts in wd40 anyway in case I change my mind. My last car had the old broken-header-stud problem. Not pretty, but the shop took care of it. Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea or brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it would just smoke off pretty rapidly, but I wouldn't want it to catch fire. >>> header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not >>> here in california. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it would > just smoke off pretty rapidly, but I wouldn't want it to catch fire. i wouldn't. the nuts are friction locking - and operate in a high vibration mode. it's not like you need to regularly remove them either. >> Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea >> or brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > i wouldn't. the nuts are friction locking - and operate in a high > vibration mode. it's not like you need to regularly remove them either. Right. Good sense, thanks. >>> Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea >>> or brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Right. Good sense, thanks. Well, in my last reply, I should have clarified that I would put the anti- seize on the STUD before it goes back in the block, not the nut. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea > or brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it > would just smoke off pretty rapidly, but I wouldn't want it to catch > fire. That's a good idea. I think I'd apply copper or nickel anti-seize, something with metal in it that won't burn off. Then lower the torque a little to compensate (10%?). Other than the possibility of overtorquing (or undertorquing!), I can't see any drawbacks. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea >>or brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Other than the possibility of overtorquing (or undertorquing!), I can't see > any drawbacks. I'm definitely still a greenhorn--anti-seize didn't occur to me, but that sounds good, as long as it doesn't impact on the self-locking nature of the nuts. I gotta remember that for when I change my plugs. >> Now that my muffler has broken off "Pipe B" and is dangling, it seems >> that the time to do the exhaust has come 'round at last. I was told [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the pitfall is that if stuff breaks, you're going to have to replace > more than you bought. Yeah, I'm a little worried about that, especially given that I'll be working right next to the cat, which would be an expensive thing to break. > torching can be helpful, but beware of damaging > the car - obvious to some but not all from what i've seen. Good tip. I'm pretty careful, but I can imagine some funny sh*it. Thanks for the others, too, particularly the *6*-point socket and wrench usage reminder. Now, I had planned on spraying wd40 on hot exhaust, though, and can't fathom why you'd suggest otherwise... <g> > there's many online sources of oem standard parts. shop around. I've found Majestic in RI to have good prices and decent service (and they're relatively nearby), but SLHonda in CA has WAY better diagrams. Any other recs? >> Will I need gasket compound? What kind? Also, the AutoZone repair >> guide refers to a "tail pipe cutter" loaner--what for, and will I need >> it? > > no. none. no. not if you use oem & the oem gaskets. Think I will go OEM--with all the parts the price really isn't bad. Thanks again, Jim. >> OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is > an aftermarket alternative worth considering? It is noteworthy that you get lifetime? replacements for the first OEM Honda muffler kit you buy. You'd really have to have your Honda for a long a.s time to make this work for you but it sounds like a good allocation of funds. >>>OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > time to make this work for you but it sounds like a good allocation of > funds. Really?? That's pretty remarkable, thanks for the tip. I'm gonna go OEM anyway if only because the kit includes all the necessary parts and will fit correctly without massaging (at least I hope I can expect that from OEM!). > I'd like to do the work myself to save a little, though really it's the > parts that are the major expense. Has anyone done this before? Any > pitfalls? I expect I could use a torch for heating stubborn parts, but > otherwise it looks pretty straightforward. Famous last words... I'd forgotten just hoe awful super-rusted-into-one-hunk-of-slag parts can be... I just spent the better part of a day today trying to get Pipe-B out. I don't have a chance on those three bolts while it's still under the car--I think the only way to get them out will be with a drill, and I think that's more than my equipment can handle. The nuts have completely fused with the flange--can't even see the original seam between the two. Also, it looks like the Pipe-B flange and the Cat flange have fused together. I can only hope that they'll break apart once the bolts are drilled out. OY! Of course, the Cat bolts are headless and seat by means of a grooved shank, so drilling will have to be a careful process so as not to enlarge the hole. Ick! Though I guess one could always use a short hex bolt instead. I tried to unbolt the Cat--only two bolts and they're in *much* better shape--but one nut is stubbornly still locked in place. (I figured I'd be better able to drill out the bolts with the whole thing out.) Oh well. Guess this one goes to the mechanic... Shoulda known I don't have enough experience/wherewithal to conquer bad rust... Grrrr. |
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