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Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 200597 Radiator boil over, general rant
So the Radiator boils over on my 97 Accord, and I start the diagnosis process, T-stat is OK so I get to step two and find that the rad.fan motor does not respond to direct voltage except for an initial turn. So I replace the motor and all is well. I decide to pull the back off of the old motor see the cause of failure. As I suspected it is normal wear on the brushes. So here is the rant. why don't they sell brush kits to replace these things with. I pay fifty bucks for a new motor when I need a ten cent pair of brushes, (even if they were five bucks as a service item, I wouldn't complain). And I throw away a handful of copper, steel, plastic, that is essentially functional if they sold the brushes. And the commodity price for all those items continues to inflate as they become more scarce. I guess we will worry when we run slap out. Well... don't be so sure that all you needed is a pair of brushes. Often when just the brushes are replaced... they don't last long because the surface they ride on needs attention. That's why when electric motors are reconditioned, they not only change the brushes... they work on resurfacing the commutator amounst other things. Don't be so mad... just think of all the money you saved by diagnosing the problem yourself. Professor Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com Commutator looked and felt good. Just wasn't any brush left for the spring to push against it. I used to work for a tool company that used universal motors in the tools. A commutator can usually stand up to a bunch of brush changes before the whole thing goes. These are $75-400 tools and they all have user replaceable brushes. I'm also old enough to remember back when all of these types of motors, generators, alternators, on cars could be user repaired or rebuilt. My position stands. We have become a very wasteful society. Frank >Well... don't be so sure that all you needed is a pair of brushes. >Often when just the brushes are replaced... they don't last long [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Professor >Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com > Commutator looked and felt good. Just wasn't any brush left for the > spring to push against it. I used to work for a tool company that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > motors, generators, alternators, on cars could be user repaired or > rebuilt. Holy crap, I do as well! > My position stands. We have become a very wasteful society. That's for certain - it's the US economic model, don't repair, replace & boost sales. > I'm also old enough to remember back when all of these types of > motors, generators, alternators, on cars could be user repaired or > rebuilt. they can be. i pass by a place that rebuilds that stuff. > Commutator looked and felt good. Just wasn't any brush left for the > spring to push against it. I used to work for a tool company that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Frank Of course tools have replaceable brushes. The grit of machined material destroys them in a hurry. Brushes in sealed motors can easily last long enough to wear through the commutator or outlive the bearings. Many autoparts stores buy back parts so they can be rebuilt. You don't have to waste that big chunk of iron and copper. You can also still buy brushes at motor shops, though rebuilding is probably the better way to go on an important car part. The seam between the plastic and aluminum part at the top of my 97 accord's radiator split - so be careful and stop if you start getting that sweet smell - warp the heads on an aluminum block/head engine and it is all over. > So here is the rant. why don't they sell brush kits to replace these > things with. why not go to a place that repairs electrical motors and buy some brushes from them? if they dont have some that fit, im sure they could grind some down. chances are its a standard size/style/type. > So the Radiator boils over on my 97 Accord, and I start the diagnosis > process, T-stat is OK so I get to step two and find that the rad.fan [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the commodity price for all those items continues to inflate as they > become more scarce. I guess we will worry when we run slap out. as stated by others, you have no guarantee this is a long term fix. bearings, commutator, windings, all can go. replacing the unit is /the/ reliable solution. particularly if you are a garage/dealer and don't want some upset [potentially ex] customer coming back in 6 weeks demanding another repair, only this time for free. also factor in the cost of labor. the cost for removing & refitting is the same for repair or replacement, so cancel that out of the equation. now we have the time for disassembly, diagnosis, repair, testing, reassembly. assuming it's fixed right first time, that may be only 1 hour [minimum charge]. if the motor then proves defective, you've wasted 1 hour's worth of labor charge, /and/ you still have to replace the motor on top of that. it's just not economic unless you're doing it all yourself. and you figure your time is free. I understand perfectly that commercial shops can't take the time to crack open these little motors and diagnose the problems. But when I open it up and see that the commutator is clean and smooth, and that the bearings are free and quiet and there is no radial or axial play in the shaft, I'm willing to take the chance on replacing the brushes. I'm not talking about a user rebuild, only replacing the brushes. Unless a motor has an electric brake all the other components should be able to outlast several sets of brushes. Electric brakes are very hard on universal motors, tend to scorch the commutator. I'm researching where I can get some brushes now. If I'm successful, maybe I'll Post an FAQ guide to doing this. >> So the Radiator boils over on my 97 Accord, and I start the diagnosis >> process, T-stat is OK so I get to step two and find that the rad.fan [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > it's just not economic unless you're doing it all yourself. and you >figure your time is free. | shops can't take the time to crack open these little motors Doesn't your city have a repairer of motors ? Here in Pg Msia ( population 0.7m ), 1 repairer has repaired motors of my Hitachi lawn mower ( twice ) & vacuum cleaner, 3 Black & Decker grass trimmers, 1 National ( Matsushita ) table fan. | >> I throw away a handful of copper, steel, plastic Sony ddu1621 dvd drive's circuit*board has a Winbond flash rom soldered onto *, I cannot replace this rom so tried to buy a new *. Sony would not repair this drive, or sell this * ( has a 10 digit part # ), will sell only parts with a 9 digit #. Toshiba xm5702 cd drive's * 's flash rom sits in a socket, so this rom is replaceable. Don't buy Sony dvd drive. >| shops can't take the time to crack open these little motors >Doesn't your city have a repairer of motors ? They do for larger induction motors. But not for small universal motors. Here in Pg Msia ( population 0.7m ), 1 repairer has repaired motors >of my Hitachi lawn mower ( twice ) & vacuum cleaner, 3 Black & >Decker grass trimmers, 1 National ( Matsushita ) table fan. >| >> I throw away a handful of copper, steel, plastic >Sony ddu1621 dvd drive's circuit*board has a Winbond flash rom [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Toshiba xm5702 cd drive's * 's flash rom sits in a socket, so this >rom is replaceable. Don't buy Sony dvd drive. It is the way we are going. |
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