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Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 2005"Piston slap" / diesel sound in '94 Accord
I've been Googling for info about my '94 Accord EX 4-cyl VTEC sounding like a diesel engine, especially when cold. I found lots of references to it, and even discovered a term that was new to me: "piston slap." Possible solutions include valve adjustment, piston adjustments, getting a new short block, etc. All good, but a number of the posts suggest that this noise is indicative of engines that haven't been well cared for. My car has 133,000 miles on it, is on its third timing belt, has had regular oil changes (every 3K miles, and sometimes less) and basically every time it farts in the wrong direction I take it to the mechanic. So is this diesel sound, or piston slap, merely a characteristic of this particular model car? (The vast majority of the posts relate to my generation Accord.) It's really a rather rude sound to come from such a wonderfully engineered engine, but I will live with it if need be. The car performs as fine as it ever did and my gas mileage is excellent. I just want to know what you guys think. Thanks for your input. I thought the 'piston slap' was caused from those driver that would load a cold engine without giving it a chance to warm up. (e.g. driving off smartly immediately after starting the car in the morning without letting it idle for a minuet). Pars > I've been Googling for info about my '94 Accord EX 4-cyl VTEC sounding like > a diesel engine, especially when cold. I found lots of references to it, and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > performs as fine as it ever did and my gas mileage is excellent. I just want > to know what you guys think. Thanks for your input. How long does the noise last after starting engine? Professor Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com > I've been Googling for info about my '94 Accord EX 4-cyl VTEC sounding like > a diesel engine, especially when cold. I found lots of references to it, and > even discovered a term that was new to me: "piston slap."<SNIP>I just want > to know what you guys think. Thanks for your input. -------------------- It's fairly common, same for Odyssey. Nothing you can do, but find a sticker that says DIESEL and put it on the back of the trunk. People will stare, and really wonder where you imported it from . . . Just smile wisely . . :-) 'Curly' A very loose spark plug will make a knocking sound, shortly before it pops out. At least mine did. If it is any consolation, my 97 makes the same noise. I believe it is in the same engine series as yours. I also have a 90 and had a 82 and the noise used to bother me because it is so un- Honda like compared to them. But it has 143K miles on it and it hasn't come apart on me yet. >I've been Googling for info about my '94 Accord EX 4-cyl VTEC sounding like >a diesel engine, especially when cold. I found lots of references to it, and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >performs as fine as it ever did and my gas mileage is excellent. I just want >to know what you guys think. Thanks for your input. Thanks for all the input. It goes away SOME after the engine idles down after warm-up, but does it pretty much all the time, just louder when the engine is cold. I take it easy on the engine when it's cold, letting it warm up before driving. > Thanks for all the input. > > It goes away SOME after the engine idles down after warm-up, but does it > pretty much all the time, just louder when the engine is cold. I take it > easy on the engine when it's cold, letting it warm up before driving. ----------------------- You're supposed to warm it up WHILE you drive it. Read the Fine manual. Save fuel, reduce pollution, make engine last longer. 'Curly' > Thanks for all the input. > > It goes away SOME after the engine idles down after warm-up, but does it > pretty much all the time, just louder when the engine is cold. I take it > easy on the engine when it's cold, letting it warm up before driving. I've got 240,000km on my 1998 DX Engine which has been used hard (in city delivery, redlines and hustling at 170km/hr across the city is norm). My car doesn't exhibit any piston slap issue (even in the winter), In fact it has a smoother startup then my wife's 2000 DX Engine (and that engine only has 70,000km on it). There's two things I can attribute to the favorable results, one being the life time use of Mobil-1 oil (started at 30,000km) and letting the engine warm up before going hard on it. I recently switched my wife's car to Mobil-1 0w20 and she's seen drastic improvements in fuel economy as a result. It might be worthwhile to switch to the synthetic oil, which helps with lubrication during cold startup (and flows better which is an extra insurance if the problem is an actual engine defect). If you do decide to go synthetic, let us know if it reduces the noise level of the 'piston slap'. Pars >>Thanks for all the input. >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Pars you definitely have a point regarding oil quality affecting engine noise. running ford oem 5w-30 in my civic, the motor sounded like it was five fourth's ready to die. putting it back onto castrol gtx, she quieted right up again. > you definitely have a point regarding oil quality affecting engine > noise. running ford oem 5w-30 in my civic, the motor sounded like it > was five fourth's ready to die. putting it back onto castrol gtx, she > quieted right up again. What is it about Castrol that makes it such a favorite with Honda service centers? I mean as log as -- say -- a Chevron brand oil has the same API rating that is specified by the Honda specs it should make not diffeence, should it? Yet I noticed that the Honda shops always uses Castrol. Rudy >> you definitely have a point regarding oil quality affecting engine noise. >> running ford oem 5w-30 in my civic, the motor sounded like it was five [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > service centers? I mean as log as -- say -- a Chevron brand oil has the > same API rating that is specified by the Honda specs API rating are a minimum. > 70,000km on it). There's two things I can attribute to the favorable > results, one being the life time use of Mobil-1 oil im considering switching all the vehicles i have to shell rotella synth- 5w40. 2 vehicles spec 5w30, and 2 spec 10w40. i figure 5w40 will be a happy compromise. any reason not to, other than it not having the "energy conserving starburst" label? > > 70,000km on it). There's two things I can attribute to the favorable > > results, one being the life time use of Mobil-1 oil [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > happy compromise. any reason not to, other than it not having the > "energy conserving starburst" label? For my next oil change, I'm going to switch to Mobel-1 0w40. If it returns the same gas mileage as the current Mobel-1 5w30, it's going to become my summer oil (and I'll switch to 0w20 for the winter). Pars On 7/1/05 10:52 PM, in article HcadncD1qsLhk1vfRVn-ow@rogers.com, "Pars" <sdaroremove@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Thanks for all the input. >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Pars My '96 Odyssey started the "slap" at about 40,000 miles. It was always treated to Mobil-1 oil changes at 3000 mile intervals. We were religious about proper warm up, etc. I don't think the oil makes any difference. Some of them do it and some of them don't. Considering that the 96 Odyssey was Honda's first attempt at making a Minivan with Isuzu help, it could have some reliability issues. 40,000miles seem extremely early for 'piston knock' to occur. If so, it should have been a warranty issue. Pars > <sdaroremove@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > about proper warm up, etc. I don't think the oil makes any difference. > Some of them do it and some of them don't. >><sdaroremove@hotmail.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > Considering that the 96 Odyssey was Honda's first attempt at making a > Minivan with Isuzu help, it could have some reliability issues. 40,000miles > seem extremely early for 'piston knock' to occur. If so, it should have been > a warranty issue. > > Pars i repeat what i said earlier - some of this /definitely/ depends on the oil. i changed the oil on my civic this weekend, and she went from being borderline rattly to utterly quiet. castol gtx 5w-30. 5k miles since last oil & 10k since last filter. the change before the last filter was motorcraft 5w-30 & she made a noise like a bag of loose rattly things from day 1 [and leaked oil like crazy]. with castrol you get a few thousand miles before it gets noisy, and you need to leave it in there a /long/ time before it sounds like the ford stuff. motor oils are /not/ all the same. they /do/ effect how the engine sounds. > Considering that the 96 Odyssey was Honda's first attempt at making a > Minivan with Isuzu help, how much did isuzu actually "Help"? isnt it pretty much a standard accord platform, with a minivan body? i know it was branded as the isuzu oasis, but i really dont see any isuzu in the design, unlike the passport, which was a simple rebadge. >Considering that the 96 Odyssey was Honda's first attempt at making a >Minivan with Isuzu help, it could have some reliability issues. 40,000miles >seem extremely early for 'piston knock' to occur. If so, it should have been >a warranty issue. > >Pars I don't think that Isuzu had any part in engineering the Odyssey. The only connection with Isuzu was that they got some Odysseys to rebadge (Oasis) as part of the deal that gave Honda the dreaded Passport and some equally forgettable SUV for the Acura line. The original Ody was based on the Accord platform and the piston slap is an occasional problem on a number of Honda models of this vintage. The first generation Odyssey actually had better reliability than the second generation minivan. >>Considering that the 96 Odyssey was Honda's first attempt at making a >>Minivan with Isuzu help, it could have some reliability issues. 40,000miles [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (Oasis) as part of the deal that gave Honda the dreaded Passport and > some equally forgettable SUV for the Acura line. the SLX/trooper! and youre right, i totally forgot about it. kinda sad to see how isuzu practically doesnt exist in the states any more. in their heyday, they had a wide range of smaller, useable SUVS, along with the amigo, and a decent minitruck. now? nothin but a rebadged GM clone. i live close to the cerritos auto square in southern california. on the main strip are all the important dealers. off to the side is a converted paint store that now sells isuzu/suzuki/mitsubishi. none of those marques can afford to stand alone. i call it the "kiss of death" dealership. before that, they sold daewoo :) >>>Considering that the 96 Odyssey was Honda's first attempt at making a >>>Minivan with Isuzu help, it could have some reliability issues. 40,000miles [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >marques can afford to stand alone. i call it the "kiss of death" >dealership. before that, they sold daewoo :) Was that after the Yugo shop closed? >>i live close to the cerritos auto square in southern california. on the >>main strip are all the important dealers. off to the side is a converted [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Was that after the Yugo shop closed? nah... but im almost positive it was a daihatsu place when it first opened. remember them? "youll think the world of daihatsu" whatta slogan! > >>Considering that the 96 Odyssey was Honda's first attempt at making a > >>Minivan with Isuzu help, it could have some reliability issues. 40,000miles [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > along with the amigo, and a decent minitruck. now? nothin but a rebadged > GM clone. Jeep cornered that market, especially with the Libreto. You're right about the Odyseey, I suppose I was juxtoposition .the Passport and the Odyssey... Since we're off topic, here's a cool little micro van that's probably going decimate the 'Wagon' category and could take a chunk out of the minivan market. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jm/06mazda5.htm Pars > i live close to the cerritos auto square in southern california. on the > main strip are all the important dealers. off to the side is a converted > paint store that now sells isuzu/suzuki/mitsubishi. none of those > marques can afford to stand alone. i call it the "kiss of death" > dealership. before that, they sold daewoo :) > Since we're off topic, here's a cool little micro van that's probably going > decimate the 'Wagon' category and could take a chunk out of the minivan > market. > > http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jm/06mazda5.htm Interesting, but I think I would sacrifice the 2x2x2 seating for better fuel economy and quality, and get a Toyota Matrix instead. > Since we're off topic, here's a cool little micro van that's probably going > decimate the 'Wagon' category and could take a chunk out of the minivan > market. > > http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jm/06mazda5.htm interesting! i kinda miss the old honda wagovan built from 88-91. never owned one, and thought it was hella dorky at the time, but i think it might have been a hit if it was offered now. > > Since we're off topic, here's a cool little micro van that's probably going > > decimate the 'Wagon' category and could take a chunk out of the minivan [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > owned one, and thought it was hella dorky at the time, but i think it > might have been a hit if it was offered now. I had the same thought. The under 40years group has basically grown up on smaller car (I remember back in 86' when I was the first to get a front drive Chevy Nova and was constantly getting challenged, at the lights, by all the rear drive boats). My age and younger probably have developed a healthy respect for the smaller cars (Then there's the poser or nostalgic old-timers who like the bigger stuff) Pars ) Isuzu had nothing to do with the Odyssey engine. The 95-98 Odyssey was all Honda, built on the Accord platform. Isuzu was allowed to re-badge and sell them in the deal with Honda that had Honda selling re-badged Isuzu Rodeos. It uses the same 4 cylinder Honda engine used in Accords of that generation. They were known to develop piston slap. There is no evidence that it is caused by neglect or abuse. In this particular case, the warranty was up at 36,000 miles so there was no warranty consideration given, though I have heard of people who were given new engines under warranty for this problem. It does not really hurt anything and the car will run for a normal lifespan with the problem. That particular Odyssey is still in the family and currently has about 140000 miles on it. On 7/3/05 9:30 PM, in article 68mdndXXGurZA1XfRVn-3Q@rogers.com, "Pars" <sdaroremove@hotmail.com> wrote: > Considering that the 96 Odyssey was Honda's first attempt at making a > Minivan with Isuzu help, it could have some reliability issues. 40,000miles [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> about proper warm up, etc. I don't think the oil makes any difference. >> Some of them do it and some of them don't. > Isuzu had nothing to do with the Odyssey engine. The 95-98 Odyssey was all > Honda, built on the Accord platform. Isuzu was allowed to re-badge and sell [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > particular Odyssey is still in the family and currently has about 140000 > miles on it. Yeah, One of my friend has a 95 Civic that has a bad case of the 'piston slap' and his car is in pristine condition. He's also a conservative driver who's careful with his maintenance schedule. It's good thing that the newer generation engines are a little more robust. I believe the Ody's 2.2L was replaced with the newer 2.3L? Pars > On 7/3/05 9:30 PM, in article 68mdndXXGurZA1XfRVn-3Q@rogers.com, "Pars" > <sdaroremove@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > >> about proper warm up, etc. I don't think the oil makes any difference. > >> Some of them do it and some of them don't. |
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