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Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 2005honda civic tune up trouble
i recently performed a minor tune up including spark plugs air filter fuel filter and throttle body cleaning with finger tips and carb spray. upon completion of the job, i tried to start the vehicle. no dice. checked fuel pressure good, air supply as good as it has ever been. no spark. what did i un wittingly mess up when i was tuning. i tried the original plugs. no fire. i checked the relay, three clicks as it should have. it has 140,000 miles on it and was running pretty good until i tuned vehicle. please help. > i recently performed a minor tune up including spark plugs air filter > fuel filter and throttle body cleaning with finger tips and carb [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > as it should have. it has 140,000 miles on it and was running pretty > good until i tuned vehicle. please help. You replaced the fuel filter. Turn the ignition key to II (NOT to "start"). Wait for the Check Engine light to go off. Now do this ten more times or so. Still no start? Do you have the plug wires the right way around? Did you plug in all the hoses that were attached to the intake hose?  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ i originaly spun the engine over a couple of times without the throttle body hose hooked up in order to clean the throttle body. i have the plug wires in the correct order and i have fuel pressure to the fuel rail as is apparent by loosening the bolt on it to bleed the line and it about showered me with fuel. I am about 98 percent positive that i have no fire. i have done all but hold the plug while it is spinning over to test it. i just dont understand why i lost fire when i simply removed the plugs. i believe that it is cursed. > i originaly spun the engine over a couple of times without the > throttle body hose hooked up in order to clean the throttle body. How did you prevent the engine from starting when you "spun" it over? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ plug wires not connected at that time > plug wires not connected at that time Oops! You wrecked your coil. Replace it. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#fail SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Ok that is what i was afraid of. we will try that BADMOJO I'm not sure what year your Civic is but the Honda Factory Service Manual for the 95 Civic tells you to check your coil with an ohmeter. As follows: primary winding 0.6 to .08 ohms........secondary winding resistance 12.8 to 19.2 thousand ohms. The ohmeter will tell you if the coil is shorted or open (burnt out). You might consider purchasing a Hayes Repair Manual for around $15 or check one out from the library. That will help make things very clear. Good Luck thanks i believe that i will have to try that refresh my education. when testing with the ohm meter i ohm out from coil lead to positive or from pos to neg. or in what order? it seems to be reading impedence in the aforementioned ranges. if the coil reads correctly what then? thanks mojo > refresh my education. when testing with the ohm meter i ohm out from coil > lead to positive or from pos to neg. or in what order? it seems to be > reading impedence in the aforementioned ranges. if the coil reads > correctly what then? thanks mojo + & - for primary, ht lead to either for the secondary - if you have them in series, you'll never know because the secondary's resistance is so high in comparison. alrighty then we'll try that. alrighty then we'll try that. > refresh my education. when testing with the ohm meter i ohm out from coil > lead to positive or from pos to neg. or in what order? it seems to be > reading impedence in the aforementioned ranges. if the coil reads > correctly what then? thanks mojo You can't test for a short to ground with the ohmmeter. HT current is grounding through the body of the coil. The low pressure of your test voltage is not sufficient to show the problem. The coil is pooched, trust me. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ since i work at a gm dealer i have access to parts house parts at a reasonable fee. i was priced a coil for 70 and an ignitor if need be for 130. i found the entire distributor at another for 165 less the cap and rotor button. is it probable that i fouled the ignitor as well as the coil? if that is the case i might as well replace the whole shooting match. > since i work at a gm dealer i have access to parts house parts at a > reasonable fee. i was priced a coil for 70 and an ignitor if need be for > 130. i found the entire distributor at another for 165 less the cap and > rotor button. is it probable that i fouled the ignitor as well as the > coil? if that is the case i might as well replace the whole shooting > match. Just the coil is fine. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Well you were probably right about the coil alone being the problem, however for some reason i just had a gut feeling that due to the higher mileage i was asking for trouble by installing just the coil. distributor has now been replaced and the civic barely made a quarter turn before blasting back into service. I really appreciate all of your help on this matter. The old honda is revitalized. yall be sure to holler if you have any questions related to gm vehicles as i have infinate resources in that dept. thanks again. MOJO out. Well you were probably right about the coil alone being the problem, however for some reason i just had a gut feeling that due to the higher mileage i was asking for trouble by installing just the coil. distributor has now been replaced and the civic barely made a quarter turn before blasting back into service. I really appreciate all of your help on this matter. The old honda is revitalized. yall be sure to holler if you have any questions related to gm vehicles as i have infinate resources in that dept. thanks again. MOJO out. oh yeah, i guess that the ease of installation is also important. it seems that the distributor would be pretty much bolt in and set timing. the coil on the other hand, seems to be do able by a slightly trained monkey. are there any unforseen pitfalls that i have not accounted for in the replacement of either the dist of the coil? if so any pointers would be appreciated. refresh my education. when testing with the ohm meter i ohm out from coil lead to positive or from pos to neg. or in what order? it seems to be reading impedence in the aforementioned ranges. if the coil reads correctly what then? thanks mojo > refresh my education. when testing with the ohm meter i ohm out from coil > lead to positive or from pos to neg. or in what order? it seems to be > reading impedence in the aforementioned ranges. if the coil reads > correctly what then? thanks mojo Like I said before: It Means Nothing. Your coil is almost certainly dead. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ I had a similar thing happen to me after doing a valve adjustment on my 95 Civic Ex. Because I did not ground the coil's high voltage lead when I bumped the starter, I fried my coil. I have learned my lesson here. Either ground the high voltage side on your coil or disconnect the input to the coil before turning the motor over with the coil disconnected for maint. purposes. I was also told by two different dealerships that Honda's sometimes lose their ignitor and coil at the same time, but I would check the coil first. Good luck. <snip> > I was also told by two different dealerships that > Honda's sometimes lose their ignitor and coil at the same time not likely - that's just dealers with their "we've got it open, let's replace everything" policy. makes sense for them 'cos they don't want returns. makes no sense for you if you're doing the work yourself. Your can't check the coil (most likely problem) with a test light. You need an Ohms meter to check resistance and continuity. Almost anyone with a meter should be able to check it. An Advance / AutoZone store might check it for free. You need the specs on the coil. Do you have them? > Your can't check the coil (most likely problem) with a test light. You > need an Ohms meter to check resistance and continuity. Almost anyone with > a meter should be able to check it. An Advance / AutoZone store might > check it for free. You need the specs on the coil. Do you have them? the ohm meter test only tells you if the coil's burnt right out - it can't reliably test the coil for operation - the winding may be perfect and test perfect, but if the internal insulation has broken down, it may be conducting at say 5kV, not holding to 40kV like a good coil. if it breaks down at 5kV, you'll never spark a plug with it. to test, you need an old plug [with the outer electrode gapped /huge/] and some leads to connect up the lug to the coil & battery. disconnect all other leads. yes another fellow listed the primary and secondary winding resistance numbers yes another fellow listed the primary and secondary winding resistance numbers ><snip> > > I was also told by two different dealerships that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >replace everything" policy. makes sense for them 'cos they don't want >returns. makes no sense for you if you're doing the work yourself. My independent mechanic couldn't solve the so start condition on my '94 GS-R. Wouldn't start after replacing the ignitor. He finally called a mechanic friend at the Honda dealership who told him to replace the coil also. He said that a bad coil damages the ignitor. looks like ill be replacing the coil and ignitor. it would probably be cheaper to just replace the distributor would it not? is there any way to check the ignitor/ coil with a test light. which wires should i probe. is the ignitor the little black bar in the dist with the contact that brushes the rotor button or is it the piece that has the wires plugged into it? the inside of the dist cap was relatively clean for the mileage with only slight oxidation on the contacts. i cleaned all of them, still no fire. its a conspiracy i believe. |
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