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Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 2005'97 Accord overheating bizarrely
Last week, my 1997 Accord started running very hot. After just a few minutes, the temperature gage fluctuates wildly between about half-way and the red zone. It will usually stay in one place for a minute or two, and then settle on a different setting. Is this a known problem? Does anyone have a good idea of what might cause the needle to shoot up to the red zone, stay there for 60 seconds, then float down (in 2 seconds) to about 3/4, stay there for a while, and then keep floating around with the same pattern? My thinking is that it's probably a stuck something, but what? My dilemma is that the dealership that I trust is 45 minutes away by highway. Should I drive to the dealership? (There's a dealership much closer, but they already tried to cheat me once - I don't want to go back there.) I'll be grateful for any advice. Thanks. -Joel Hoffman (joel@exc.com) Sounds like it may be a thermostaic fan problem. The fan may not be coming on at the desired trigger point. Professor Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com >Sounds like it may be a thermostaic fan problem. The fan may not be >coming on at the desired trigger point. I don't know for sure that the fan is on while the car is moving, but I know that when I stop and turn the car off, the fan stays on for a while. -Joel The point is... you really don't know if the fan is coming on too late. Without getting into eleaborate diagnostics... you might just want to consider replacing the sensor that triggers the fan. Repair shops should be very familiar with that... Professor Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com >Last week, my 1997 Accord started running very hot. After just a few >minutes, the temperature gage fluctuates wildly between about half-way [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >seconds, then float down (in 2 seconds) to about 3/4, stay there for a >while, and then keep floating around with the same pattern? Sorry to follow up on my own article. Two more points: 1. I've already checked the oil and coolant levels. They're fine. 2. The cooling fan comes on, and stays on for a while after a stop running the car. Thanks. -Joel Hoffman >>Last week, my 1997 Accord started running very hot. After just a few >>minutes, the temperature gage fluctuates wildly between about half-way [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > 1. I've already checked the oil and coolant levels. They're fine. when you checked coolant, did you look inside the rad or look at the expansion bottle? if you have /any/ form of air leak in the coolant system, it no longer sucks fluid back from the expansion bottle as it cools so you /have/ to look inside the radiator by removing the cap. > 2. The cooling fan comes on, and stays on for a while after a stop > running the car. fan & gauge use different sensors. > Thanks. > > -Joel Hoffman eratic behavior sounds like some kind of sensor or electrical problem. check all the leads for security/conductivity and check the sensor. if you ground the sensor lead, the gauge will go "hot". if it's open, it'll stay "cold". if you do one of the above & it still fluctuates, it's your gauge. buy used from a junk yard - they're /massively/ expensive new. testing the sender is simple. can't confirm values for the accord, but for older civics, 56C = 142 ohms, 100C = 49-32 ohms. test in hot water on the stove. most junkyards require you buy a whole instrument cluster, not just the one gauge. no biggie. the cluster comes apart easily & the temp unit is easy to swap out. nice clean modular design. if the above are not the problem, go through normal overheating diagnostics. this includes thermostat, radiator, head gasket, etc. but these usually give consistent readings, not erratic gauge behavior, so check the gauge thing first. If it shoots up again, feel the top radiator hose to see if it is hot or ambient. If ambient, your t-stat may be sticking. >Last week, my 1997 Accord started running very hot. After just a few >minutes, the temperature gage fluctuates wildly between about half-way [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >-Joel Hoffman >(joel@exc.com) >If it shoots up again, feel the top radiator hose to see if it is hot >or ambient. If ambient, your t-stat may be sticking. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>-Joel Hoffman >>(joel@exc.com) If you have to use the car for any emergency, drive with the heater fully on. I know it is Summer but better then destroying the engine. If you don't get any heat, it's because there is no cooling fluid in the heater radiator. You probably are not over heating. It's only a gage problem. Yes >If you have to use the car for any emergency, drive with the heater >fully on. I know it is Summer but better then destroying the engine. >If you don't get any heat, it's because there is no cooling fluid in >the heater radiator. >You probably are not over heating. It's only a gage problem. I was driving home when the needle hit the red zone, and I did turn the heater on full. I got a lot of hot air, but it didn't seem to help much. -Joel | I got a lot of hot air, but it didn't seem to help much. Remove the 2 shiny steel covers ( front & back ) of exhaust*manifold, or even replace * with a long 4-2-1 aluminised mild steel *. Honda fits only short branch ( 4 into 1 pipe ), cheap & heavy cast iron * for its engines <2.2 litre : even a F22A's *'s twin pipes are short ( a bit cheapo compared to Mercedes's ). Engine will be much cooler. Honda's temperature gauges have no calibration ( like German cars' ), so users cannot compare engines' temperatures. Chk your radiator fans' motors : feed a pc's PSU's +12v to these motors. If either fan feels stiff or cannot pull much air, then its motor needs oil : remove fan & its blade, drip in the best lubricant you have ( synthetic oil / fullerene / semi-paraffin, plain mineral oil is obsolete & inadequate ). @ just 70000 km, mine's Mitsuba motor could barely spin without oil added ( not even listed in service schedule ). Both my fans ( Mitsuba & NipponDenso ) have a ¼" x 14" = 3½ sq inch gap between casing & radiator : I insert paper to close these 2 gaps, to increase suction of air through radiator. Worse still, my SM4's Mitsuba fan's plastic casing has 4 useless holes which I had to seal, to increase suction. Chk the relay which controls your fan(s) : windows' motors' relay is not even necessary ( can be bypassed ), can be swapped into the slot for radiator fan's relay. Bonnet's rubber seals & felt, front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine. > front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, > to help cool engine. Oh yeah, that'll help. >>front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, >>to help cool engine. > > Oh yeah, that'll help. or get those 80s era enkei wheels that look like fan blades! then the faster you drive, the more air gets sucked into the engine bay via the wheelwells. I learned something further today. When the engine seems hot (according the guage), the high-pitch fan only comes on when the car is off. That is, when the car is running, there's no high-pitched fan. When I turn the key to position I (or off), the fan goes on. Is this normal? Many thanks. -Joel > I learned something further today. When the engine seems hot > (according the guage), the high-pitch fan only comes on when the car > is off. That is, when the car is running, there's no high-pitched > fan. When I turn the key to position I (or off), the fan goes on. Is > this normal? If your oil is over 226F, the fan will come on for up to 15 minutes on shutdown. That part is normal. What kind of goop is in the cooling system? Is there silt, gel, and crud? Thermostats can get gummed up with crud; the return valve in the rad cap can get fouled.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >If your oil is over 226F, the fan will come on for up to 15 minutes on >shutdown. That part is normal. What I meant is, is it normal for the fan NOT to come on while the engine is running? I thought the fan STAYED on after the car was turned off. What I noticed (and maybe this normal) is that the fan only comes on AFTER I turn the car off. So: is the fan supposed to run while the engine is running, or only while the engine is off? Thanks. -Joel >>If your oil is over 226F, the fan will come on for up to 15 minutes on >>shutdown. That part is normal. > > What I meant is, is it normal for the fan NOT to come on while the > engine is running? Yes. That's a fuel-saving measure as well as a way of getting the engine to come up to speed sooner. Engine-driven fans are inefficient. > I thought the fan STAYED on after the car was > turned off. Only if the oil temperature is over 225F. (I had originally said 210. That was incorrect). > What I noticed (and maybe this normal) is that the fan > only comes on AFTER I turn the car off. > > So: is the fan supposed to run while the engine is running, or only > while the engine is off? The fan comes on when the engine is running only if the coolant temperature is over about 194F. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >The fan comes on when the engine is running only if the coolant temperature >is over about 194F. So in other words, if the temp. guage is in the red zone, and I'm stopped with engine running, and the cooling fan is not on, something is wrong? -Joel >>The fan comes on when the engine is running only if the coolant >>temperature is over about 194F. > > So in other words, if the temp. guage is in the red zone, and I'm > stopped with engine running, and the cooling fan is not on, something > is wrong? Yes. Either you're not actually overheating, or you've got the usual thermoswitch or relay problem: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/overheating/index.html#nofan SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> So in other words, if the temp. guage is in the red zone, and I'm >> stopped with engine running, and the cooling fan is not on, something >> is wrong? > >Yes. Either you're not actually overheating, or you've got the usual >thermoswitch or relay problem: When I turn on the heat (to try to cool off the engine), the air coming out is so hot is almost burns. I'm overheating. Thanks, everyone, for your help. -Joel >>>So in other words, if the temp. guage is in the red zone, and I'm >>>stopped with engine running, and the cooling fan is not on, something [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -Joel with respect, you can't say that until you've tested the sensor circuit! it's summer. the air /will/ be hot. buy a $50 i.r. thermometer like tegger says, or test the sender circuit. both are cheaper than taking the car to the shop and asking to be fleeced, sorry, saying "my car's overheating". run through the proper diagnostics that have been fed to you in this ridiculously over-long thread. if you don't want to do any testing, just take it to the shop. >> front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, >> to help cool engine. > >Oh yeah, that'll help. Warning: this guy is a whacko. Google him for his explanations on how the fact that the clock and door lights draw power from the battery is a design flaw. Also, a single coil ignition system cannot function above 3000 rpm. If your car is overheating, you have to find the problem and fix it. If you follow Cheah's advice you will soon be disconnecting your clock to fix the problem. > Last week, my 1997 Accord started running very hot. After just a few > minutes, the temperature gage fluctuates wildly between about half-way [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > seconds, then float down (in 2 seconds) to about 3/4, stay there for a > while, and then keep floating around with the same pattern? That may be a sender or wiring problem. You need to determine if the car is actually overheating or not. A laser thermometer will tell instantly. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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