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Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 2005spark plug wires: old but under 10kOhms
Hi, I just check the spark plug wires on my newly purchased 1997 Civic: they are from 1997, probably the OEM wires, and they all measured under 10kOhms. I will also look tonight with the engine running to see if I notice any "sparks" around the wires, but I was wondering if I should replace those anyway. I am trying to make small (read cheap!) maintenace jobs, such as replacing the air filter, spark plugs, maybe the rotor and the cap, and all these are under $20, however the spark plug wire set is $47. If it is not absolutely necessary, I wouldn't replace them. What od you guys think? thanks Do not replace. Plug wires for the last 15+ years have a very long life. You've measured resistance, it's fine. Too ofter people take perfectly good OEM parts out, put in aftermarket, and can't figure out why the great new part fails in a couple of years. This is one of those instances where OEM is best and will last. "Too ofter people take perfectly good OEM parts out ..." Thanks, that's why I asked. I do not want to throw money down the drain if not necessary! As a side question, does anyone know why the resistance of these "wires" is so high? Notice that I put the word wire in between quotes. in DC, a normal wire of that length (let's say 30 cm) and that diameter (a few mm) should have 0 Ohms (well, 0.1 Ohms or so, most Digital MultiMeters would have trouble reading such a low resistance anyway). but now KiloOhms. Why?, I understand that the "resistance" of the spark plug is much higher, thus all the voltage drop will occur across the gap and the spark forms there, however a lower wire resistance will not hurt. The only thing I can think of (and remember, I am not Auto mechanic at all) is some soft of protection. Either to protect the coil, or perhaps the auto mechanic? if the resistance of the wire was small, the current would be higher, and possibly deadly? Wait a minute, that doesn't work, what if I unplug the wire right from the distributor and I put a nail in there, then the voltage there is much higher, the resistance of the nail is virtually zero and very dangerous for me. > As a side question, does anyone know why the resistance of these > "wires" is so high? To protect the coil. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/badsecondary/index.html  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > "Too ofter people take perfectly good OEM parts out ..." > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > As a side question, does anyone know why the resistance of these > "wires" is so high? Might also have to do with RF emissions, rather than protecting the coil. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>"Too ofter people take perfectly good OEM parts out ..." >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Might also have to do with RF emissions, rather than protecting the coil. it /is/ to do with rf emissions. >>>"Too ofter people take perfectly good OEM parts out ..." >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > it /is/ to do with rf emissions. Then is the rotor's resistor there for the same reason? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>>"Too ofter people take perfectly good OEM parts out ..." >>>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Then is the rotor's resistor there for the same reason? yup. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > notice any "sparks" around the wires, but I was wondering if I should > replace those anyway. You won't see the blue light show unless the wires are extremely bad. The wires' resistance is fine, but after that age, the insulation begins breaking down and current starts leaking off to ground before the plugs, especially in the wet. Replace them with OEM, along with the cap, rotor and plugs. Yes, it's expensive, but how much do you value reliability and peace of mind? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Sometimes I spray the wires down with a spray bottle. If the car starts missing: replace. I have also been known to touch the wires and feel for the current. Get Zapped: replace SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > thanks > Sometimes I spray the wires down with a spray bottle. If the car starts > missing: replace. I have also been known to touch the wires and feel for the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician > ASE Undercar Specialist After the above statement, do you really want to advertise your "credentials"? Oh never mind. The life of men... >> Sometimes I spray the wires down with a spray bottle. If the car starts >> missing: replace. I have also been known to touch the wires and feel for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > After the above statement, do you really want to advertise your > "credentials"? That's actually a pretty quick and convenient method of checking for bad wires. I've used it too. The voltage is bracing, but not at all harmful. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ I'd sooner touch plug wires than an electric fence; had an cousin that electricity didn't bother him. He'd tease his brother then grab onto a e-fence and wait.... SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist >>> Sometimes I spray the wires down with a spray bottle. If the car starts >>> missing: replace. I have also been known to touch the wires and feel for [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > The voltage is bracing, but not at all harmful. it's rudimentary, quick, gives me an answer, and it don't bite too hard. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist >> Sometimes I spray the wires down with a spray bottle. If the car starts >> missing: replace. I have also been known to touch the wires and feel for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Oh never mind. The life of men... Shadetree city. I wouldn't insure you. Matter of fact, if I were with ASE, I'd try to suspend your certification. > it's rudimentary, quick, gives me an answer, and it don't bite too hard. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > Oh never mind. The life of men... > Shadetree city. I wouldn't insure you. Matter of fact, if I were with ASE, > I'd try to suspend your certification. Glad you're not. That's a perfectly legit method of checking for a wire problem, Elle. Most mechanics I've ever spoken with, especially old-timers with oodles of experience under their belts, do this. >> Shadetree city. I wouldn't insure you. Matter of fact, if I were with >> ASE, I'd try to suspend your certification. > > Glad you're not. That's a perfectly legit method of checking for a > wire problem, Elle. Most mechanics I've ever spoken with, especially > old-timers with oodles of experience under their belts, do this. It's a fun trick to play on newbies, too. "Hey, hold this wire for me, will ya?" SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > It's a fun trick to play on newbies, too. > "Hey, hold this wire for me, will ya?" LOL! When I was in high school I was reputed to be an electrical wizard (I was). Word was, don't mess too bad with Abe or he'll electrify your doorknob! (It was boarding school.) Of course for the "Correct" way of doing this, you pay for the spray bottle of "liquid" to spray on the wires and look for the sparks. By paying for something with a label, you acquire "the right way" SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist >> Shadetree city. I wouldn't insure you. Matter of fact, if I were with >> ASE, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > problem, Elle. Most mechanics I've ever spoken with, especially old-timers > with oodles of experience under their belts, do this. As a Mechanic, we get paid "by the job" Anyway to get answers to questions quickly to get the right conclusion helps. Water is a conductor. sprayed onto the wires it MAY cause a miss to start. if it does there is a problem with the wires. Now I can also hook up 1500 dollars of test equipment to read the spark and resistance in the wires. But if I have a known bad wire to start with and I found it quickly, why waste time. The same with feeling the wires. A small jolt of electricity answers a question. Is the wire leaking? There are other things we figure out that sounds strange... but do they work? Yes. And that's what we get paid for. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist > Shadetree city. I wouldn't insure you. Matter of fact, if I were with ASE, > I'd try to suspend your certification. > >> it's rudimentary, quick, gives me an answer, and it don't bite too hard. > As a Mechanic, we get paid "by the job" Anyway to get answers to questions > quickly to get the right conclusion helps. I realize this is the plight of the blue collar worker: Coal miners, electricians, merchant mariners, auto technicians, prostitutes, among others, all are compelled to take greater bodily risks because "The Man" (the companies that own you) needs his profit. And you need yours. I actually misread your response. You're handling wires with intact (at least by quick visual inspection) insulation and not known to be particularly aged is one thing. That's just like me handling lamp cords at home. But grabbing suspect wires is another. Electrocution is a leading cause of death in the U.S. Navy. Probably not so in the passenger auto repair business. I suppose people being crushed may lead there, instead. Just today there is a news report of four Boy Scout Leaders being electrocuted. Now maybe this was an accident that was not preventable by these four. Maybe not. We'll see. > Water is a conductor. sprayed onto the wires it MAY cause a miss to start. The water trick does not bother me. It's the philosophy of bodily taking an electric shock (potentially far beyond that acquired by, saying rubbing one's feet on the floor) when it's not necessary that I condemn. > if it does there is a problem with the wires. Now I can also hook up 1500 > dollars of test equipment to read the spark and resistance in the wires. But [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > There are other things we figure out that sounds strange... but do they > work? Yes. And that's what we get paid for. I disagree that anyone should be paid to undergo unnecessary physical risk. Indeed, the law says one may not consent to have physical harm done to them. You may consider it macho. The typical male does. I consider it an explanation of why insurance rates are higher for men (trickling over to women, too, I assume, but they get prego, so it all balances out... I guess) and families unnecessarily lose their daddies, sons, and brothers. Voltage vs. amperage I wouldn't touch house current. it can kill you. current from a car can't; unless it's a hybrid. Voltage doesn't kill you: amperage does. A GM HEI ignition bites allot harder than others. Do I always grab sp wires? no. Usually, only when looking for a related problem. I don't unplug the wire and feel the end, that bite would be allot harsher; by keeping a path to ground, you eliminate some of the amperage. Your getting bothered by something you don't understand. My boss is the same way. He had a alarm system in the shop that he wanted to disable, but had no understanding of the ac vs. dc voltage. (he is terrified of electricity) With insulated cutters I removed the power wires without turning off the current. easy stuff. don't fear what you don't understand. learn it and understand it. The risk has nothing to do with being macho; it has to do with getting things done. I am more concerned with a lift falling on me than getting shocked As far as being "macho" is concerned; I have no piercing or tattoos. I don't think the pain it worth it. I have nothing to prove or say to the world. How about you? SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist > Voltage vs. amperage > I wouldn't touch house current. it can kill you. current from a car can't; > unless it's a hybrid. Voltage doesn't kill you: amperage does. Good lord. More evidence to absolutely not trust auto technicians. When discussing electrical safety no distinction whatsoever should be made between whether it's voltage, amperage, or resistance that kills a person. Body resistance does vary, depending on conditions and the individual. For example, if it happens that one is sweaty, standing in a puddle of water with wet but otherwise bare hands, body resistance is low. A lower voltage will kill you than if you are completely dry. Twelve to 14 DC volts (at the conventional car's battery and alternator output, say) is unlikely to kill an adult working in typical conditions. I wouldn't be so certain with a child. It could do injury to an adult, under the right conditions. Then too is the risk of sparks when shorting out terminals. Or if one is doing work on the alternator system: I wouldn't assume that it was a mere 12 to 14 volts or all DC. It depends. Anyone who works on automobiles should absolutely not go tinkering thinking there is no risk of injury from electrical shocks. As for the time you save by just running your hands over the wires: For God's sake, for what you charge the time you spend doing any kind of serious check of the wires could better be spent on simply slapping new OEM wires into place. You are not qualified to discuss electrical safety. Elle, my ex-wife's father was killed by high volts in a radar unit, and I understand your concern. My father, an electrical engineer, was literally cut open by an unexpected 5,000 volt arc. On the other hand, you are freaked out about routine shortcuts practiced thousands of times a day, I wager. Its a lot more likely you'll lose a finger or two to a fan belt, than get electrocuted under the hood. It's not just lifts coming down on you, of course. Worst injury I ever saw involved a mechanic under the car at just the wrong time: the radiator exploded and drenched him with boiling hot coolant. The hospital bills were six-figures, to give you an idea of the extent. > Elle, my ex-wife's father was killed by high volts in a radar unit, and > I understand your concern. My father, an electrical engineer, was > literally cut open by an unexpected 5,000 volt arc. On the other hand, > you are freaked out about routine shortcuts practiced thousands of > times a day, I wager. I agree such shortcuts happen routinely. I am sorry to hear of these tragic accidents within your family. > Its a lot more likely you'll lose a finger or > two to a fan belt, than get electrocuted under the hood. I have no doubt this is true for a conventional car. Steve's caveat about hybrids was a good one, IMO, though. I don't know the numbers on the hybrid's battery and alternator system (someone can google or rattle them off the top of their head), but of course they are going to be higher than a conventional car's system. Therefore much more electrical caution is appropriate. Could a hybrid's electrical system easily be lethal? Someone post me some DC volts, for one, on the hybrid system, and I'll comment... > It's not just lifts coming down on you, of course. Worst injury I ever > saw involved a mechanic under the car at just the wrong time: the > radiator exploded and drenched him with boiling hot coolant. The > hospital bills were six-figures, to give you an idea of the extent. That's a good one (albeit terribly sad one) too. Perhaps we should have a "Safety Thread" sometime, where people describe their worst mishaps with their Hondas or other cars, with bodily injury or serious property damage resulting or almost resulting. Maybe it will help keep us all as alert as possible. (Although if some of the fellows here talk about how fast they have happily driven their Hondas, the effect may be precisely the opposite of that intended, so let's not go that direction!) I offer my statements as opinion and nothing more. Folks make their own choices on safety. I believe in the Hybrids wire the wiring coming form the Electrical portion of the car's system is yellow. Cut it and it could/would kill you; There working on what to do about the fire departments called out to a hybrid accident. as they typically cut the car in half sometimes to get the occupant out, cutting the wrong wire could kill the fireman. now that's a problem. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist >> Elle, my ex-wife's father was killed by high volts in a radar unit, and >> I understand your concern. My father, an electrical engineer, was [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > I offer my statements as opinion and nothing more. Folks make their own > choices on safety. > I believe in the Hybrids wire the wiring coming form the Electrical portion > of the car's system is yellow. Cut it and it could/would kill you; > There working on what to do about the fire departments called out to a > hybrid accident. as they typically cut the car in half sometimes to get the > occupant out, cutting the wrong wire could kill the fireman. > now that's a problem. how often do they have to cut through the floor pan, where all the wires run? Well, that's outside my area of expertise, but not all the wires are in the floorboards, many are strolling around the engine compartment. Just a side note; had a Toyota hybrid in today, the dangerous wires are all coated Orange. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist >> I believe in the Hybrids wire the wiring coming form the Electrical >> portion of the car's system is yellow. Cut it and it could/would kill [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > how often do they have to cut through the floor pan, where all the wires > run? > You are not qualified to discuss electrical safety. And you are? You sound like you learned theory but not practicality. Have you ever rewired a house? 110v AC and 220? installed breaker boxes? Welders? AC compressors? 440 Volts? Worked on any aircraft electronics lately? Rewired a car? measured the voltage off the alt? battery? How about a 12v generator? We no longer have bench grinders in our shop because OSHA came in and started fining all shops that had a grinder with the tool rest over 1/4 of an inch from the wheel. The major corporation HQ pulled every one out from all shops across the US. Now we use hand grinders. Probably more dangerous in the long run. But someone is worried about the 1/4 inch may hurt us. I respect electricity, but I don't fear it. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist > Voltage vs. amperage > I wouldn't touch house current. it can kill you. Depends. I've gotten shocks (accidentally) from straight 110VAC current. Ever put a 9VDC battery on your tongue? Feels like that, only a lot BIGGER, like supercharged electric worms wiggling through your body. I know several guys who have received 600VAC industrial current shocks. Knocked the hell out of them, but they survived to tell the tale. Spark plug voltage is intermittent. It does not stick around long enough to do damage. If 20,000VDC stuck around longer than 10ms, it might hurt you. > current from a car > can't; unless it's a hybrid. Voltage doesn't kill you: amperage does. As does duration, which spark plug current does not have much of. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>Voltage vs. amperage >>I wouldn't touch house current. it can kill you. > > Depends. I've gotten shocks (accidentally) from straight 110VAC current. > Ever put a 9VDC battery on your tongue? Feels like that, only a lot BIGGER, > like supercharged electric worms wiggling through your body. Yeah, pretty weird, eh? I've only gotten zapped with 110VAC a couple of times, and I don't care to repeat it. But like zapping your tongue with a 9VDC battery, I've always thought of it more as a nuisance than deadly, assuming you're standing on stable ground. The real safety hazard with getting zapped by 110 is if you're on a ladder and jerk back, thereby falling off the ladder and getting seriously hurt. Or maybe if you have a weak heart or pacemaker. Now, I wouldn't want to get zapped while standing in a pool of water on a concrete floor... much prefer to have shoe insulation between me and solid ground (in the electrical sense of the word). Anyway, those who know what they're doing obviously take proper precautions in the first place, but it helps to know what you're getting into in case of accident--if you're on a ladder and get zapped, try not to fall off! <bg> |
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