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Car Forum / Honda Cars / August 2005What's with red rear turn signal?
I've noticed that Honda, and some other mfg'rs. are going with the Detroit look and using red rear turn signals instead of the amber color used for years. Any official word on what's going on? I don't like it because amber seems to do a better job of catching attention day and night. Dave, > I've noticed that Honda, and some other mfg'rs. are going with the > Detroit look and using red rear turn signals instead of the amber color > used for years. Any official word on what's going on? I don't like it > because amber seems to do a better job of catching attention day and night. > > Dave, red turn signals are one of the most dangerous retrograde foolish idiocies ever. the fact that honda of all people are doing it just makes me /puke/. truth is, in modern high speed freeway traffic, a single flash of an orange turn signal from the car two ahead of you [and therefore partially obscured] tells you that the vehicle is maneuvering. a single flash of red tells you squat. do you get ready to brake? do you start braking and have the tail-gater behind you slam your a.s? do you try closing up in anticipation of the person ahead being able to accelerate now their obstruction has gone? and all this in nose-to-tail 70+mph commuter traffic? at night? the "red lens" rules exist /only/ because it allows certain other manufacturers to save the incremental cents on two extra cable runs, two bulbs and a switch. on a 1930's turnip truck with zero traffic density. today's grand total saving less than $5 per vehicle in volume. but spread over 1M vehicles, that's a nice $5M saving. that gives $500k bonus for the genius manager that thinks red lenses are "ok". $500k bonus for the bean counter/legal team that does the math indicating that no class action from the families of bereaved could ever match annual savings, $500k for political, er, "grease" to ensure no embarrassing questions ever get raised on the subject, and $3.5M to the bottom line to an ailing company that survives only on the strength of it's marketing team, not it's product quality? and honda jump on this bandwagon like it's some sort of identity panacea? blows my mind. >> I've noticed that Honda, and some other mfg'rs. are going with the >> Detroit look and using red rear turn signals instead of the amber [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > marketing team, not it's product quality? and honda jump on this > bandwagon like it's some sort of identity panacea? blows my mind. I guess my concerns are that if Honda, and perhaps other manufacturers, want to cheapen the car in obvious ways, then" 1. What did they cheapen that I can't see, and that may be more important? 2. If they want to follow the same business model as Detroit, then why would anyone want to pay the thousands extra for a Chevy or Ford wannabe? 3. Trying to raise prices and cut corners are one of the milestones of a company's (or industry's) demise. What seems to have happened is Detroit is going the way of the buggy manufacturer, Japanese car manufacturers are becoming the new Detroit, and (perhaps) the Korean manufacturers are becoming what the Japanese were a few years ago. I have owned Honda s since 1987, and Japanese since 1979. It looks like time for a change. My guess is that Honda (if my above analysis is correct) will see a drop in sales and try to cut more corners to be cost competitive. Not at all why we bought these cars, but that is the life of an industry. Dave, > I guess my concerns are that if Honda, and perhaps other manufacturers, > want to cheapen the car in obvious ways, then" > > 1. What did they cheapen that I can't see, and that may be more important? Oh, lots of things, Dave. Have you noticed that the relatively inexpensive "waiter's corkscrews" are now no longer quite so inexpensive, yet are made of metal that doesn't hold up to a solidly-embedded cork? Ever bought a new blender and compared the motor to your old one? I just did. The old one is solidly built; new one is cheap plastic, and sounds and feels cheap. Same with the top, new one is crap, old one is much better. Not Honda examples, but the problem plagues all manufacturing that I've seen and I certainly would not expect Honda to stand apart. I look around and see all kinds of materials shaving. Manufacturers play around until they achieve the absolute minimum amount of materials they can get away with and still have the part work for long enough that it makes it out of warranty. They save lots of money, but their products last for sh.t and no really one notices--or if they notice, they don't say anything. I suspect it has something to do with the reduction in our attention span created by poor educational training, the TV remote control, and hyperlinked information. Many of us don't have a sense of history that extends for more than a few years, if that. We do what we have to to meet the bottom dollar, to meet the requirements of short-sighted, stupid managers who're (even when they're not stupid) being forced to produce and shave costs to compete with every other stupid company doing the same. No regard for the future, and the fact that someone might want to use Product X for more than a couple of years. It really is disconcerting. >>> I've noticed that Honda, and some other mfg'rs. are going with the >>> Detroit look and using red rear turn signals instead of the amber [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > 1. What did they cheapen that I can't see, and that may be more important? the ridiculous thing with red-lensed hondas is that nothing is cheapened!!! they still use the extra bulbs, wiring, switches, etc. the /only/ thing different is the lens - and that's specific to the north american market. they're copy-catting detroit, but they're not even taking advantage of the cost savings!!! potential class action exposure without even the offset??? it's one of the most ridiculous "marketing" ideas i've ever seen. even bmw, just about the most marketing-driven car company there is, won't touch red rear lenses. current honda management have lost all touch with their customer base. > 2. If they want to follow the same business model as Detroit, then why > would anyone want to pay the thousands extra for a Chevy or Ford wannabe? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Dave, <snip> >> 1. What did they cheapen that I can't see, and that may be more >> important? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > taking advantage of the cost savings!!! potential class action exposure > without even the offset??? Class action suit - on what charges? You can't simply say "Honda sux" in a US court and hope to collect big bucks (I hope!). > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Class action suit - on what charges? You can't simply say "Honda sux" in a > US court and hope to collect big bucks (I hope!). I suspect the vehicles are legal for sale, and meet all applicable lighting requirements. No lawsuit there. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Class action suit - on what charges? You can't simply say "Honda sux" in > a US court and hope to collect big bucks (I hope!). of course not. but you can't tell me that a red turn signal that takes two or three flashes to be distinguishable from a brake signal is as safe as an orange turn signal that is distinguishable in a few milliseconds. of course it's "legal". but the only reason it's "legal" is because it would [financialy] "hurt" detroit to make the law reflect the same safety standards used throughout the rest of the world. consumer class actions have changed vehicle safety law in the past. since 2000, honda is exposed if this were to happen - they never were before. >of course not. but you can't tell me that a red turn signal that takes >two or three flashes to be distinguishable from a brake signal is as [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >since 2000, honda is exposed if this were to happen - they never were >before. Honda would just make the argument that their lights meet the governement standards, and they would win in court. So don't bitch at Honda. Let the government know just how stupid their standards are. They might listen. ------------- Alex >>of course not. but you can't tell me that a red turn signal that takes >>two or three flashes to be distinguishable from a brake signal is as [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ------------- > Alex "They might listen." Only if you send them a pile of money, like the car manufacturers due to get the rules bent their way. Think FDA and how they keep forgetting to test this or that and notify the consumer of this or that. Yes out government is the best money can buy! Dave, >"They might listen." Only if you send them a pile of money, >like the car manufacturers due to get the rules bent their >way. Think FDA and how they keep forgetting to test this or >that and notify the consumer of this or that. Yes out >government is the best money can buy! If you mean drugs, the FDA does not test drugs. The drug companies test the drugs themselves and then submit the results to the FDA to review. -------------- Alex >>of course not. but you can't tell me that a red turn signal that takes >>two or three flashes to be distinguishable from a brake signal is as [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ------------- > Alex like this? http://dir.salon.com/bc/1999/01/26bc.html > I've noticed that Honda, and some other mfg'rs. are going with the > Detroit look and using red rear turn signals instead of the amber [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dave, Huh? The 2005 CRV has amber lamps in clear housings as rear turn signals. >I've noticed that Honda, and some other mfg'rs. are going >with the Detroit look and using red rear turn signals >instead of the amber color used for years. Any official >word on what's going on? I don't like it because amber >seems to do a better job of catching attention day and night. Stupidity! An amber turn signal is unambiguous, something that can't be said about red turn signals. --------------- Alex |
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