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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2005Honda S2000 oil starvation/ main engine bearing problem
Hi folks, I was considering buying a 2000 or 2001 Honda S-2000, but then a mechanic told me about the 'dirty little secret' some of the earlier models of the S-2000 had. Honda eventually fixed it in later models, but it was an "oil starvation" problem in earlier models and it could cause problems with the main bearing of the engine... which could get very expensive. I am interested in hearing accounts or stories from people who have had this problem with an S-2000. Did it occur rarely? Moderately often? How expensive were the repairs? How good was Honda about the problem? I was told by the mechanic that there's no way to diagnose this problem in a car that has it. Would you recommend (or advise against) a 2000 or 2001 S-2000? What model year was it when Honda had this problem fixed for good? Did the problem occur in the 2002 model also? Thanx for any info. G. Peiffer Alameda, CA > Hi folks, > I was considering buying a 2000 or 2001 Honda S-2000, but then a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Honda had this problem fixed for good? Did the problem occur in > the 2002 model also? Thanx for any info. no ones posted here about it that i can recall. your best bet would be s2000 forums, and/or google. >> Hi folks, >> I was considering buying a 2000 or 2001 Honda S-2000, but then a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> Honda had this problem fixed for good? Did the problem occur in >> the 2002 model also? Thanx for any info. Have you tried here? http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ > Hi folks, > I was considering buying a 2000 or 2001 Honda S-2000, but then a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Alameda, CA > never heard of it. doubt it very much. and there's five main bearings, not just one. >> Hi folks, >> I was considering buying a 2000 or 2001 Honda S-2000, but then a >> mechanic told me about the 'dirty little secret' some of the earlier >> models of the S-2000 had. Honda eventually fixed it in later models, >> but it was an "oil starvation" problem in earlier models and it could >> cause problems with the main bearing of the engine <snip> > never heard of it. doubt it very much. and there's five main > bearings, not just one. It seems different oil jet bolts were installed as of May '02 to address potential oil starvation issues under very heavy loads. There's a TSB on this. Hardly a "dirty little secret". A bit of Googling turned up this, with much stellar info: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=138344 And from The Temple of VTEC: http://tinyurl.com/7mwrm Photo sequence of the repair: http://www.pbase.com/rsrock/oil_jet_bolt_replacement Another discussion thread: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=123&t=162487  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Excellent answer. Thanks for all the information. >>> Hi folks, >>> I was considering buying a 2000 or 2001 Honda S-2000, but then a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Another discussion thread: > http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=123&t=162487 >>>Hi folks, >>>I was considering buying a 2000 or 2001 Honda S-2000, but then a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Another discussion thread: > http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=123&t=162487 i don't see a problem - i just see bleating about what /could/ happen. i'm with honda on this one - you're never going to be able to run the vehicle hard enough long enough for this to be an issue. especially not if you use a decent oil. > i don't see a problem - i just see bleating about what /could/ happen. > i'm with honda on this one - you're never going to be able to run the > vehicle hard enough long enough for this to be an issue. especially > not if you use a decent oil. It says in the one thread that the oil starvation issues are happening to cars subject to very unusual loads, such as being driven for 120mph for a half-hour. And even then it's not *all* cars driven that way that experience the problem, but only a few. There are almost no reports of such failures in North America. It's a pretty minor issue overall. That still does not stop some from declaring darkly that Honda has a "dirty little secret". What a joke. I guess the conspiracy theorists have to have *something* to believe in, don't they? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>i don't see a problem - i just see bleating about what /could/ happen. >>i'm with honda on this one - you're never going to be able to run the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > guess the conspiracy theorists have to have *something* to believe in, > don't they? so true. >> i don't see a problem - i just see bleating about what /could/ >> happen. i'm with honda on this one - you're never going to be able [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that way that experience the problem, but only a few. There are > almost no reports of such failures in North America. Oil starvation is much more likely related to engine speed and lateral loads, not road speed. > It's a pretty minor issue overall. That still does not stop some from > declaring darkly that Honda has a "dirty little secret". What a joke. > I guess the conspiracy theorists have to have *something* to believe > in, don't they? I think it's reasonable to expect no oil starvation issues with a US$ 30K+ 4 cylinder engine equipped car that's advertised as designed to be driven very hard. >>> i don't see a problem - i just see bleating about what /could/ >>> happen. i'm with honda on this one - you're never going to be able [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Oil starvation is much more likely related to engine speed and lateral > loads, not road speed. You've not read the links given in earlier messages, that's clear. The oil starvation has to do with the oil spray pattern applied to the cylinder under the piston. Starting May/02 Honda replaced the older 2-hole oil-jet bolts with ones that have 4 smaller holes to address this issue. Apparently the four smaller holes give a better spray pattern for high engine speeds. >> It's a pretty minor issue overall. That still does not stop some from >> declaring darkly that Honda has a "dirty little secret". What a joke. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 30K+ 4 cylinder engine equipped car that's advertised as designed to > be driven very hard. Nobody's perfect of course. Automakers discover this sort of glitch regularly, which is the very reason TSBs and warranties exist. Speaking for TSBs, a kind contributor just emailed me a bunch more TSBs for addition to the TSB page. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>>i don't see a problem - i just see bleating about what /could/ >>>>happen. i'm with honda on this one - you're never going to be able [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Apparently the four smaller holes give a better spray pattern for high > engine speeds. and i guarantee, 4 small holes will clog /way/ more easily than 2 larger ones. i return to my previous comment - using decent oil is critical. at a slight tangent to that, if just one piston at the end of the block is experiencing this problem, it's likely a coolant circulation issue more than an oil issue. but addressing that would require a whole motor redesign. some mods like gasket hole changes can help, but coolant circulation is just about the least refined aspect of most cars simply because most vehicles don't get worked hard enough for it to be a problem. i recall one instance where a block assembly that had been used by a certain manufacturer had successfully worked on gasoline engines for over 30 years, but when that motor was used as a base for a diesel derivative, it would consistently burn out one piston at the far end of the bank. essentially, a coolant circulation issue that had always been present but "not serious" was now exposed under the much harsher higher temperature regime of diesel operation. it's an interesting problem. circulating coolant from one end to the other is cheap, convenient & works, but by definition, coolant at one end is going to be warmer than the other. it can be addressed with "cross flow" cooling, but that means separate liners, a longer heavier block, and mechanical stability issues that mean yet more weight. is it worth the trouble for a motor that in all other respects and applications is quite exemplary except when experiencing *uninterrupted* maximum output for more than 30 minutes? there aren't many places where you're going to start to get close to that ceiling, even on a track. >>>It's a pretty minor issue overall. That still does not stop some from >>>declaring darkly that Honda has a "dirty little secret". What a joke. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Speaking for TSBs, a kind contributor just emailed me a bunch more TSBs for > addition to the TSB page. <snip> > is > it worth the trouble for a motor that in all other respects and > applications is quite exemplary except when experiencing > *uninterrupted* maximum output for more than 30 minutes? there aren't > many places where you're going to start to get close to that ceiling, > even on a track. It happens in Europe, which is why the TSB has not been issued for North American cars. Europeans tend to drive at much higher speeds than we do. North American cars are more likely to sludge up, on account of our driving and maintenance patterns. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It happens in Europe, which is why the TSB has not been issued for North > American cars. Europeans tend to drive at much higher speeds than we do. only on german autobahns. everywhere else is speed limited & strictly enforced from what i saw. > North American cars are more likely to sludge up, on account of our driving > and maintenance patterns. inferior oil formulations a much more likely cause. >> It happens in Europe, which is why the TSB has not been issued for >> North American cars. Europeans tend to drive at much higher speeds >> than we do. > > only on german autobahns. everywhere else is speed limited & strictly > enforced from what i saw. According to my sister, who has driven in Holland and Belgium, speed limits there are sort of theoretical. Britain is a different story, on account of their photo radar. >> North American cars are more likely to sludge up, on account of our >> driving and maintenance patterns. > > inferior oil formulations a much more likely cause. Inferior maintenance practices as well. When Toyota's 1MZ-FE engine sludge problems began to surface a few years ago, Toyota discovered the problem existed primarily in the US, with very few cases in Canada. Their research indicated that more Americans than Canadians lease instead of own, and lessees are *much* less likely to pay attention to maintenance than owners. And speaking of maintenance, I wished so bad today that I had a garage. There's a '94 Caravan for sale down the road from me. It's in wonderful shape, straight, rust-free body, and is going for $450. The only problem? A blown head gasket. But I've got no place to keep it. If only... SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>It happens in Europe, which is why the TSB has not been issued for >>>North American cars. Europeans tend to drive at much higher speeds [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > shape, straight, rust-free body, and is going for $450. The only problem? A > blown head gasket. But I've got no place to keep it. If only... you should buy the caravan and do the gasket just for the sake of it. you'll be /so/ glad for the reality check on how well honda make cars compared to that, er, "thing". "TeGGeR." <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > According to my sister, who has driven in Holland and Belgium, speed limits > there are sort of theoretical. > Britain is a different story, on account of their photo radar. That would have to be since my last visit there. The M4 has some nominal limit, but the cruising speed from Bracknell to Windsor seemed very stable at 100mph, in traffic. I was a passenger in a Renault of some diminutive size, and that seemed like about 25 too many mph for me, and the engine. --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5 The phrase "dirty little secret" did not originate with me. If you go into Google search engine, and search on the keywords S2000 oil starvation, look at the second hit out of 552 hits. It jumps right out of your computer monitor screen and right into your face. The link is at http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=664&page=2 and the comments were: Originally Posted by Chip JB; I too wanted an S2000 since it was a new model in 00. My first issue was the plastic rear window which was changed to glass in MY 02. The second reason was the "market value scalding" dealers were adding to the bottom line. I almost bought an 02, but the second gear issue was still a problem to many owners and there was a dirty little secret about a short block oil starvation problem that several owners experienced and had to have the short block replaced and in the hands of "ham fisted" techs. for long periods of time. While the cars waited on parts many owners cars suffered mild body damage that dealers claimed they were not responsible for. I must say in all fairness that the above issues may have only happened to a few owners, but you need to know about them. Additionally there were power window (power down) issues, rear diff. issues and a few other small issues that all conspired to make me look elsewhere for a ride. I must also say that many of the above issues may have been caused by hard spirited driving as well, but that's why folks buy cars like this is it not? My advice to you is to wait until we see what Mr. Lutz & Co. offers up and then decide which car is best suited for you. Good luck! >> i don't see a problem - i just see bleating about what /could/ happen. >> i'm with honda on this one - you're never going to be able to run the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > guess the conspiracy theorists have to have *something* to believe in, > don't they? > The phrase "dirty little secret" did not originate with me. Never said it did. I never said WHO said it. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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