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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2005HELP: 1995 Civic Over Heating
Asking about my cousin's 1995 CIVIC DX (With A/C) Overheating and need to know some things. Given my limited knowledge, I checked with the engine at idle, after a cold start, that the right most fan is not on. The left most fan (exclusively for A/C) was also off. When I turn on the A/C, the left fan does come on. QUESTIONS: Generally, how should I help my cousin debug this problem of overheating? Specifically: (1) When does the normal engine fan (right most fan) come on? (2) How can I check that the right most fan works? (3) What role does the thermostat and temp/sensor play in the overheating scenario? (4) If the engine fan and temp/sensor work together, can a bad thermostat cause overheating? Thanks, Gary > Asking about my cousin's 1995 CIVIC DX (With A/C) Overheating and need to > know some things. > > Given my limited knowledge, I checked with the engine at idle, after a cold > start, that the right most fan is not on. The left most fan (exclusively for > A/C) was also off. When I turn on the A/C, the left fan does come on. So in other words, the right (regular cooling) fan never turns on, even with the AC on? > QUESTIONS: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > (1) When does the normal engine fan (right most fan) come on? When at a certain temperature and when the AC is on. > (2) How can I check that the right most fan works? A fuse for this fan exists, so check it first. Look in the under the hood fusebox. You'll find two relays: one for the radiator fan, one for the condensor fan. They are most likely the same type. If they are indeed the same type, swap them. Start your car and turn on your AC. If now the cooling fan runs and the condensor fan does not, your problem is in the relay that you now swapped to the condensor position. Replace it. If nothing changes, your relays are most likely fine. Get a volt meter and measure acorss the cooling fan with the AC on. You should see 12V. If you don't, try putting one lead onto a good ground point and try again. If you now see 12V, you have a bad ground connection to your fan. If you still don't see 12V, your problem may be in the wiring to the relay, the relay contacts or the relay itset. Locate the coil position on the relay, turn on the AC and measure the voltage. You should see 12V. If you don't, one of the contacts goes to a junction. That junction is most likely bad. If you do see 12V on the relay, locate the contact position on the relay. The common should have 12V on it. If so, short the contacts and see if the fan turns on. If it does not, your problem is with the wire going from the fan to the relay. If it does turn on, your relay or the contacts to the relay must somehow be bad.. > (3) What role does the thermostat and temp/sensor play in the overheating > scenario? The car will overheat with it closed, but your fan not running is a prime suspect. > (4) If the engine fan and temp/sensor work together, can a bad thermostat > cause overheating? yes, assuming the fan does turn on at some point. Hope that helps you. Remco Thanks, you gave me a lot to chew on. Today I read a Honda repair manual at Pep Boys. It said to feel the top hose and if its not hot then it could mean a closed thermostat. I checked the repair records and the thermostat has not been changed since the car was new, and that's over 10 year of hot summers and tough winters. > > Asking about my cousin's 1995 CIVIC DX (With A/C) Overheating and need to > > know some things. [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > Hope that helps you. > Remco > Thanks, you gave me a lot to chew on. Today I read a Honda repair manual at > Pep Boys. It said to feel the top hose and if its not hot then it could mean > a closed thermostat. > > I checked the repair records and the thermostat has not been changed since > the car was new, and that's over 10 year of hot summers and tough winters. I take it the fan does turn on then? Agreed - I'd change it for problem prevention sake if it has been in the car that long. > > > Asking about my cousin's 1995 CIVIC DX (With A/C) Overheating and need > to [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > Hope that helps you. > > Remco > Gary wrote: > > Thanks, you gave me a lot to chew on. Today I read a Honda repair manual at [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Agreed - I'd change it for problem prevention sake if it has been in > the car that long. Plus, while this 10-year-old thermostat may work, it may not work optimally. My 1991 Civic's thermostat worked fine for 13 years, but someone here suggested replacing it for the reasons above. It's also cheap enough, especially if one does it one's self, to warrant removal every ten years. You could replace it and then that's one less thing (that was about due anyway) to worry about as you troubleshoot. Or it might solve the problem. Hey, listen, with your 95 Civic just idling on your driveway or your garage, as much as 50 minutes may be necessary to get the radiator fan to come on. I suggest replacing the thermostat, then purging the system of air, since you will have opened it and likely lost some coolant. Use the manual. It directs, among other things, that a proper purge requires idling long enough so the rad fan comes on twice. I am not kidding about how long it may take. I timed it last year with my 91 Civic. Some other folks confirmed that, just idling in the driveway or (open) garage, it may take this long. Have a magazine. I thought my fan wasn't working correctly, too, until I got this tip. If you're doing this yourself, www.autozone.com has free repair guides, specific to the 1995 Civic that tell how to. They duplicate Chilton's and apparently often Helm's. Good for you that you have repair records. Buy only an OEM thermostat. It's worth the few extra bucks. Is it possible to change the thermostat without having to drain the radiator. Reason has to do with where the 1995 Honda Civic is currently parked. > > Gary wrote: > > > Thanks, you gave me a lot to chew on. Today I read a Honda repair manual [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Buy only an OEM thermostat. It's worth the few extra bucks. > Is it possible to change the thermostat without having to drain the > radiator. Reason has to do with where the 1995 Honda Civic is currently > parked. yes, but you will have some spillage and will need to refill accordingly. >>>>Thanks, you gave me a lot to chew on. Today I read a Honda repair > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >> >>Buy only an OEM thermostat. It's worth the few extra bucks. Group, many thanks for all your help. Unfortunately, the conclusion to this disaster was a corroded radiator and the multiple times the overheating happened which caused the head gasket to go. It could not pass the leak test. I was hoping for just the thermostat and ended up with the one step up from the worst case scenario. That would have been a warped block. QUESTION: Is this normal for Hondas, or just the Civics? I am referring to the robustness of the head gasket when over heating occurs. > > Is it possible to change the thermostat without having to drain the > > radiator. Reason has to do with where the 1995 Honda Civic is currently [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > >> > >>Buy only an OEM thermostat. It's worth the few extra bucks. > Group, many thanks for all your help. Unfortunately, the conclusion to this > disaster was a corroded radiator and the multiple times the overheating [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Is this normal for Hondas, or just the Civics? I am referring to the > robustness of the head gasket when over heating occurs. hondas have an all-alloy block, so heat distortion is exaggerated, but that's not unique to hondas. repetition will make the situation worse. the real question however is how did it get to be repeatedly overheated? fix that problem before blaming honda. >>>Is it possible to change the thermostat without having to drain the >>>radiator. Reason has to do with where the 1995 Honda Civic is currently [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] >>>> >>>>Buy only an OEM thermostat. It's worth the few extra bucks. I know the directions for 1984-1995 Civics say to "drain the cooling system," but I did NOT do this last year. I think maybe someone here said I could get away with NOT doing a full drain, thus. I don't think I opened the petcock and drained even partially. But by not even draining a little bit in advance, then as you disassemble to get the thermostat out, some coolant definitely will come out. Have a pan or wide bucker underneath where the thermostat is to collect it. Kinda messy, so you might want to try the following to minimize the mess: Note the height of the thermostat housing. One wants to try to drain to below it. Attempt to do so by opening the radiator petcock (draining into a pan) and watching the level via the radiator cap opening. I don't think I had to add much coolant. I did goof by not doing a proper re-fill and air purge the first time. You already have my warnings about that: Wait at least 50 minutes for the fan to come on before deciding the fan is broken in some way. (The outcome of having air in the system was improper cooling of certain engine control components, causing an irregular idle. This was fixed easily by doing a proper air purge of the cooling system.) Add the same coolant as that that came out. If you're not sure what coolant it is, consider doing a full cooling system drain and fill, with maybe a flush in between with water. It's not difficult. Refill using only Honda OEM coolant or you can try Havoline orange Dexcool. Do not use green prestone. (At least, that's my opinion.) If it's not premixed, use only distilled water to dilute the anti-freeze. > Is it possible to change the thermostat without having to drain the > radiator. Reason has to do with where the 1995 Honda Civic is currently [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > > > Buy only an OEM thermostat. It's worth the few extra bucks. > Add the same coolant as that that came out. Oops, let me clarify: Add the same BRAND of coolant, but new from a bottle, as that that came out. I wouldn't re-use the old coolant. OTOH, if you keep the bucket or pan you use to collect it clean, it's probably not a big deal to do so. "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message news:ISc2f.759$y14.323@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > I know the directions for 1984-1995 Civics say to "drain the cooling > system," but I did NOT do this last year. I think maybe someone here said I > could get away with NOT doing a full drain, thus...<snip> > Have a pan or wide bucker underneath where the thermostat is to collect it. The best method is to partially drain from the radiator and reuse it. These coolants can go 30K miles or 3-years. There's no need to dispose this environmentally unfriendly substance unnecessarily. > Asking about my cousin's 1995 CIVIC DX (With A/C) Overheating and need > to know some things. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Generally, how should I help my cousin debug this problem of > overheating? You can tell us EXACTLY WHEN the car overheats. 1) Idling in heavy traffic, cools off once you start moving again 2) At speed on the highway; cools off once you stop 3) Hot all the time 4) Other Rad fan will not come on until the coolant temp exceeds 194F. About 5 minutes in heavy traffic on a hot day will do that. More detail please. No detail, no help, no solution.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > You can tell us EXACTLY WHEN the car overheats. > > 1) Idling in heavy traffic, cools off once you start moving again > 2) At speed on the highway; cools off once you stop > 3) Hot all the time > 4) Other The car overheats, just idling. This is with and without the A/C fan running. Since I did not do the test personally, I do not yet know: IF (1) The main fan works? (2) The thermostat's condition? (3) The temp/sender is working or not? (4) The Fan fuse condition? I a;so went to the Honda dealer to buy a thermostat but parts was closed. I talked to the clerk behind the service counter and he said its probably the Head Casket (99 out of a 100 times is what he said) or the Water Pump. While praying for the problem to be a fuse or thermostat or temp/sender, how can I check to see if its the water pump or Head Gasket if the other things seem to be fine. Thanks, Gary > I a;so went to the Honda dealer to buy a thermostat but parts was closed. I > talked to the clerk behind the service counter and he said its probably the > Head Casket (99 out of a 100 times is what he said) or the Water Pump. lets hope not. > While praying for the problem to be a fuse or thermostat or temp/sender, how > can I check to see if its the water pump or Head Gasket if the other things > seem to be fine. a compression test should be able to tell the gaskets status. waterpump? hard to tell. replace the t-stat do a compression test if it checks out ok, then do the water pump/timing belt. > The car overheats, just idling. This is with and without the A/C fan > running. Since I did not do the test personally, I do not yet know: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > talked to the clerk behind the service counter and he said its probably the > Head Casket (99 out of a 100 times is what he said) or the Water Pump. If you see bubbles coming out of the filler neck even after you properly bleed it then your engine will need a funeral service or servicing. If the upper hose or lower hose isn't hot when it overheats then the fan usually won't come on. You could pot boil the thermostat. If it's not properly bled on some cars the fan will not come on because the waterpump can't do its job. Of the many cars I've dealt with bleeding is almost unique to each car, yet few will ask how to do it correctly. > While praying for the problem to be a fuse or thermostat or temp/sender, how > can I check to see if its the water pump or Head Gasket if the other things > seem to be fine. > Thanks, > Gary >Asking about my cousin's 1995 CIVIC DX (With A/C) Overheating and need to >know some things. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >(2) How can I check that the right most fan works? Disconnect the connecter coming from the temp/sensor relay at the back of the fan motor and go directly from the battery to the fan terminals with a jumper set. If it turns it is good. If it starts to turn and then stops or starts to turn when you tap the motor housing, generally the brushes are worn out. >(3) What role does the thermostat and temp/sensor play in the overheating >scenario? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Gary |
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