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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2005Neutral Safety Switch - MT
Hi. I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions - WHY (please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply build a neutral safety switch for mt's?! Isn't there some reasonable way to maybe put a magnetic proximity sensor on the shift shaft or something to tell when the damn thing is in neutral? It isn't rocket science - it's a lever on a stick! I have this really nice unit which is nicer than the one "designed" for manual trans, which would then also have a series of ridiculous "reservation mode" steps to follow... why not just put it in neutral (including the e-brake in series of course to ensure *both* are engaged) and Voila?? Anybody know how / where - or do I just muck around until I build one myself? It's for a 2004 Honda Civic. Thanks! :) --- You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything. -e > Hi. > I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything. > -e you effectively already have one - it's on the clutch pedal and means you can't start it unless the clutch is fully depressed - and we all know the vehicle can't transmit drive when the clutch is fully depressed, don't we? > > Hi. > > I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but > > when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions - WHY > > (please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply build > > a neutral safety switch for mt's?! <snip> > > --- > > You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > know the vehicle can't transmit drive when the clutch is fully > depressed, don't we? Yes, of course there's that - but that is bypassed by the starter during the starting process. The point is to somehow ensure the car is in neutral and e-braked before doing so. Units "designed" for mt's require a number of steps to try to ensure this. I just can't believe their isn't a more direct method of mechanically or otherwise determining "Am I In Neutral - Yes or No?" --- You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything. -e >>>Hi. >>>I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything. > -e er, ok, so what problem are you having? don't you ever check the stick? > >>>Hi. > >>>I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > er, ok, so what problem are you having? don't you ever check the stick? Of course - but what if I forget. The 'net is full of such horror stories. -e > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message >> The point is to somehow ensure the car is in neutral and e-braked >> before doing so. Units "designed" for mt's require a number of steps [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Of course - but what if I forget. The 'net is full of such horror > stories. What if you "forget"? How ridiculous. If you "forget" such a thing, then you're basically a lousy driver and should not be allowed to drive a manual transmission.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > If you "forget" such a thing, then you're basically a lousy driver and > should not be allowed to drive a manual transmission. tegger, are we sure he's old enough to drive? jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:auydnTt6oMVadf_enZ2dnUVZ_s- dnZ2d@speakeasy.net: >>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> > tegger, are we sure he's old enough to drive? Maybe he's got wooden blocks on the pedals. :) SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:auydnTt6oMVadf_enZ2dnUVZ_s- > dnZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Maybe he's got wooden blocks on the pedals. :) I'd say I hope I am at least a better driver than you are couth, my dear T - e - guh - guh... errrr :-/ Looks like the real suggestions have ended. You can go back to your regular programming now that the trolls have arrived. Thanks. -e >> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > If you "forget" such a thing, then you're basically a lousy driver and > should not be allowed to drive a manual transmission. forget what? ive forgotten whats supposed to be remembered. AFAIK, sticks should be kept in gear when parked- NOT in neutral. > AFAIK, sticks should be kept in gear when parked- NOT in neutral. In UK the rule is 'stick' in N unless on a hill. Also if on a hill park with the wheels turned into the kerb. Just an observation, in Europe we tend to take responsibility for our own actions (like checking the car is safe to start BEFORE starting) in some other countries the responsibility seems to lie with the vehicle manufacturer. A few examples from more than one country. Clutch in to start Chimes for drivers door open - in case you forget to close it and fall out. Devices to try and put the seat belt on. Doors that lock themselves as you drive away or maybe we are just backward in Europe???? > > AFAIK, sticks should be kept in gear when parked- NOT in neutral. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > or maybe we are just backward in Europe???? No, you just don't seem to have an army of litigious lawyers running around suing for stupidity. > >> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > AFAIK, sticks should be kept in gear when parked- NOT in neutral. Agreed. That's sort of the crux of the problem. Park Properly or Park So You Can Use a Remote Starter... :-/ hm. Guess that's where automatic transmissions come in. Kind of like the blocks-on-the-pedels TeGGer seemed so keen about - like training wheels for shifters-in-training. :) -e > Hi. > I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > It's for a 2004 Honda Civic. > Thanks! Which unit do you have? Many years ago when I was in the Mobile Electronics business I carried and installed a unit out of Canada by Astro-Start that sounds something like what you are describing. It used optical sensors on the shifter (2 sets, 1 for the X axis and one for the Y axis) to detect if the car was in neutral. Magnetics would be unreliable cause you can't aim a magnetic field reliably. But even this unit had a specific shut-down sequence you had to follow or else it would disable itself. In addition to making sure the vehicle was in neutral, it also wanted to make sure the e-brake was set. > > Hi. > > I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but > > when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions - WHY > > (please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply <snip> > Which unit do you have? Many years ago when I was in the Mobile Electronics > business I carried and installed a unit out of Canada by Astro-Start that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > else it would disable itself. In addition to making sure the vehicle was in > neutral, it also wanted to make sure the e-brake was set. aha! OK! Yes - this is what I'm talking about! That sounds like an interesting solution. I could build something like that with minimal effort - X and Y too, makes sense. The magnetic thing I was suggesting was more of a proximity concept - something simple like a mod on a magnetic door switch for house alarms. If the magnet is close enough, the switch engages. Similar, but different, as the shifter has a lot more play than a swinging door on fixed hinges. I'm also checking out Astro Start - thanks for the tip. -e > Hi. > I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but > when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions - WHY > (please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply build > a neutral safety switch for mt's?! liability issues, for the mfr and installer. > Isn't there some reasonable way to maybe put a magnetic proximity sensor on > the shift shaft or something to tell when the damn thing is in neutral? It > isn't rocket science - it's a lever on a stick! and that stick is supposed to stay in gear, even when parked. emergency brakes can and do fail, or even creep... not good especially on steep hills. > I have this really nice unit which is nicer than the one "designed" for > manual trans, which would then also have a series of ridiculous "reservation > mode" steps to follow... why not just put it in neutral (including the > e-brake in series of course to ensure *both* are engaged) and Voila?? e-brakes go out of adjustment, they CAN slip, they can be partially engaged. > Anybody know how / where - or do I just muck around until I build one > myself? dunno, but im sure its been done before. ask around to some stereo/alarm places? |
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