Car Forum / Honda Cars / November 2005
Acura Reliability
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Collectif LFG - 04 Nov 2005 19:00 GMT Hi! I own a 1999 Acura 3.2TL which I bought new. It only has about 60k on the odometer. The whole transmission has been changed at 40k and the WHOLE engine is being replaced right now (all under warranty). The mechanics don't talk very much and say they had "problems" with that model. I was just curious if i was an isolated case or if it's normal that the mechanicals on that car SUCK that much. I have to say that I'm the kind of guy who tries to save gas instead of racing on every traffic light! Everyone I know who own a Honda keep telling me that they beat them up like crazy and still get reliability. What do you think? Is my car a lemon? Sould I sell it once it has a brand new engine and tranny? Thanks for your comments
SoCalMike - 04 Nov 2005 20:43 GMT > Hi! I own a 1999 Acura 3.2TL which I bought new. It only has about 60k > on the odometer. The whole transmission has been changed at 40k and the > WHOLE engine is being replaced right now (all under warranty). The > mechanics don't talk very much and say they had "problems" with that > model. I was just curious if i was an isolated case or if it's normal > that the mechanicals on that car SUCK that much. the auto tranny on the V6 of that era has known issues.
generally, the 4 cylinder engines and manual trannies are pretty bulletproof.
sad to say a 4 cyl stripped accord of the same era that cost half as much would likely be more reliable.
lexus is the only japanese luxury brand id consider.
Gordon McGrew - 05 Nov 2005 07:22 GMT >> Hi! I own a 1999 Acura 3.2TL which I bought new. It only has about 60k >> on the odometer. The whole transmission has been changed at 40k and the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >lexus is the only japanese luxury brand id consider. Well if reliability is a key factor in your decision, I wouldn't recommend any non-Japanese brands. Lexus and Acura are pretty close on reliability.
ATs do fail too often generally and that goes extra for this one. (Although you can easily find more trouble-prone ones from other manufacturers.) The V6 is a typical Honda engine, which is to say extremely durable and reliable.
I would say you were unlucky to have the AT failure. It was a virtual lightening strike to lose the engine. What exactly happened to it anyway?
How was the car driven? Hard driving could trash the AT, but I don't think you could over stress that engine.
If you like the car, I wouldn't get rid of it. OTOH, if you do like to drive it hard, there are better models for that.
jmattis@attglobal.net - 05 Nov 2005 04:48 GMT > Hi! I own a 1999 Acura 3.2TL which I bought new. It only has about 60k > on the odometer. The whole transmission has been changed at 40k and the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > car a lemon? Sould I sell it once it has a brand new engine and tranny? > Thanks for your comments Ouch. That's a shame. If it were me, and if Acura isn't offering to extend the warranty on these items in a major way, I would bail out fairly soon after breaking in that new engine. Beats sitting on the edge of your chair waiting for the transmission to break again. If it's the same version transmission that they took out, I sure wouldn't trust it.
boobie - 05 Nov 2005 08:21 GMT "Collectif LFG"
> Hi! I own a 1999 Acura 3.2TL which I bought new. It only has about 60k > on the odometer. The whole transmission has been changed at 40k and the > WHOLE engine is being replaced right now (all under warranty). Yeah TL's AT problem in the last few years is well-known. What was the problem ? Did you *actually* have some sort of engine failure or is this some "preventive" work ?
> I'm > the kind of guy who tries to save gas instead of racing on every traffic > light! Everyone I know who own a Honda keep telling me that they beat > them up like crazy and still get reliability. What do you think? Is my > car a lemon? Sould I sell it once it has a brand new engine and tranny? > Thanks for your comments hmmm maybe you indeed have been too "gentle" with it ? I guess you probly never hit VTEC point huh ? Word on the street is you should rev the hell outta these Honda engines from time to time ;)
jim beam - 05 Nov 2005 15:03 GMT > Hi! I own a 1999 Acura 3.2TL which I bought new. It only has about 60k > on the odometer. The whole transmission has been changed at 40k and the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > car a lemon? Sould I sell it once it has a brand new engine and tranny? > Thanks for your comments honda do one thing really well - make reliable 4-bangers. and that's /all/ they used to make until their engineers started to take a back seat to their bean counters.
bottom line, if you want a spunky v6 sofa-on-wheels, go toyota. if you want a peppy, reliable, fun-to-drive 4-banger that loves being near the red line, go honda. based on your driving habits comment, the toyota may better suit you. and it'll last forever.
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 05 Nov 2005 16:08 GMT > honda do one thing really well - make reliable 4-bangers. and that's > /all/ they used to make until their engineers started to take a back > seat to their bean counters. The back seat to the bean counters thing is very real, in my estimation. Honda spent at least 10 years with bean counters making all the decisions.
The new Civic shows that maybe the engineers are back in the saddle. Time will tell.
But I think they also hit a home run with their V6 engine. Again, time will tell. Or maybe I'm looking at it as "well, so far it hasn't been recalled like the tranny was".
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 05 Nov 2005 16:18 GMT > bottom line, if you want a spunky v6 sofa-on-wheels, go toyota. if you > want a peppy, reliable, fun-to-drive 4-banger that loves being near the > red line, go honda. based on your driving habits comment, the toyota > may better suit you. and it'll last forever. Bottom line, you're 100% correct on all counts.
I have an 02 Ody, and a 94 ES300. The Lexus has 156K on the clock; I got it with 124K and a bad transmission (due to Joe's Corner Garage doing some sort of 1950's tranny flush for the previous owner). Rebuilt the transmission, and I haven't touch it since except for oil changes and an emissions part that caused no problem other than the check engine light (dammit). I get between 20 and 27mpg. (So much for the hybrid philosophy; if my goal is to minimize my car expenses, the high mile Lexus that someone else is "done with" is the way to go. Decent gas mileage and no car payment and minimal insurance cost--$600/year.)
Time for brakes, though. Ah, well.
The Ody has 40K on it. Let's see...there was the transmission recall, which showed my 2nd gear to be clean and unburned, so I got the oil jet kit. The idle air control valve died at around 35K miles (but 42 months, so technically it was outside warranty), which is unacceptable--but my dealer didn't hesitate, as I stood there unbelieving it at 8pm (they called the service manager at home), to cover the $300 repair out of Honda's monthly goodwill dollars.
So I'm in a good negotiating position (I'm old enough and have a good enough relationship with the dealer) to get many of these beancounter-inspired problems taken care of. The point is, I shouldn't have to. I never had to before. I've been a Honda man for 25 years, been dealing with this dealership for 25 years, and my 92 Civic Si (fer chrissakes) didn't have any stupid engineering flaws or problems like what came about starting in about 1996-1998 and which are showing up in my 02 Ody.
If I buy new, I'll probably buy Honda again--because of my dealer and because I think I see that Honda is turning the corner on the beancounter thing, and that engineering has stepped up to the plate again. But I'll sure look a lot harder than I thought I'd ever have to before I pull that trigger.
But if I buy used, it'll be Lexus until further notice. Sorry, Honda, but you've caused too many issues for me to trust a Honda that has been in someone else's care.
I never thought the day would come when I'd say that. But generally, people don't care for their appliance cars--and while the old Hondas could weather that, I don't think the newer ones can. It'll probably be a good 10 years before I'm completely comfortable buying a used Honda again.
And like you said, it'll be a 4 cylinder manual transmission Honda--the one they could engineer and build in their sleep.
jim beam - 05 Nov 2005 20:07 GMT >>bottom line, if you want a spunky v6 sofa-on-wheels, go toyota. if you >>want a peppy, reliable, fun-to-drive 4-banger that loves being near the [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > again. But I'll sure look a lot harder than I thought I'd ever have to > before I pull that trigger. i think it's great that you've had such good service from your dealer. can't say i've had the same joy. in fact, some are within an ace of being criminal, either through incompetence or deliberate malpractice.
> But if I buy used, it'll be Lexus until further notice. Sorry, Honda, > but you've caused too many issues for me to trust a Honda that has been [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And like you said, it'll be a 4 cylinder manual transmission Honda--the > one they could engineer and build in their sleep. i like the older 4 cylinders with 4 speed autos. they're fantastically reliable [if not messed with - see above] and perform just great. i'd love to be impressed by a revitalized honda, but my jury's still out on that one. you're dead right about the rot setting in about 10 years ago. fingers crossed that they've turned that around now.
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 05 Nov 2005 20:25 GMT > > If I buy new, I'll probably buy Honda again--because of my dealer and > > because I think I see that Honda is turning the corner on the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > can't say i've had the same joy. in fact, some are within an ace of > being criminal, either through incompetence or deliberate malpractice. It helps that I've had exactly 2 service techs over the last 15 years--and I'm down to one because the other one got a job with American Honda in product engineering/testing.
I trust those guys 110%.
Not everyone has that luxury, and someday that may go away for me. I dread the idea.
Sparky Spartacus - 06 Nov 2005 07:13 GMT >>>If I buy new, I'll probably buy Honda again--because of my dealer and >>>because I think I see that Honda is turning the corner on the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > years--and I'm down to one because the other one got a job with American > Honda in product engineering/testing. Are you in Westchester County by any chance?
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 06 Nov 2005 13:30 GMT > > It helps that I've had exactly 2 service techs over the last 15 > > years--and I'm down to one because the other one got a job with American > > Honda in product engineering/testing. > > Are you in Westchester County by any chance? Nope.
Collectif LFG - 05 Nov 2005 15:47 GMT Thanks for all your replies. However, I think I haven't made myself clear on certain points: The transmission simply went crazy as it was unable to change any gears without my head banging on the headrest every time. So it's been changed. Now, the engine started to sound more like a diesel than anything else but still was running fine. THEY decided to replace it. I bought that Acura because I thought it was reliable (as any jap car?) AND because it was more fun to drive than any of the equivalent models from other brands. I live in Montréal Canada and I used to store this car in a garage all winter long to keep it from rusting and drive my beater during winter (an old Nissan Stanza that I find more reliable than my TL...) I always took good care of the engine before every winter: put some fog oil in each cylinder, change the oil, fill up the gas tank and add some stabiliser etc. I planned to keep that car forever but since I had so many problems with it (even besides the drivetrain) and that the engine and tranny are new on it, plus the fact that it still looks like a brand new car inside and out, I think I'm going to sell it for a fairly good price! I'm so dissapointed that I may go back to Nissan with the Infiniti G35 (I miss RWD a lot)
Have a nice day!
Pars - 05 Nov 2005 16:04 GMT Get a car that you can drive all year round. That way, it'll last longer. Storage is for antiques that are dead to the road and a ghost to their true potential.
Pars
> Thanks for all your replies. However, I think I haven't made myself > clear on certain points: The transmission simply went crazy as it was [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Have a nice day! Elmo P. Shagnasty - 05 Nov 2005 16:06 GMT > Thanks for all your replies. However, I think I haven't made myself > clear on certain points: The transmission simply went crazy as it was > unable to change any gears without my head banging on the headrest every > time. So it's been changed. Honda spent years selling bad transmission engineering to people who bought their V6 cars and vans. First the 4 speed was PURE junk, and shops were replacing them every day--and customers paid for it until they got wise, and Honda got wise, and Honda did a recall (the largest recall in Honda history).
Then they made a 5 speed trans to hook to their V6 engine, and even THAT one had problems out of the gate--it was a 2nd gear cooling issue, in that it was badly engineered and got no oil on the gear and the gear burned. AGAIN a recall, and they fixed the ones they could and replaced the ones they couldn't fix.
This went from the 98 model year up through the middle of the 04 model year. Hondas, Acuras--they're all the same engines and transmissions, and they all had the same HORRIBLE engineering flaws that caused Honda cars to be like Chryslers in that regard.
Fortunately, Honda has stepped up to the plate and acknowledged it. And THAT'S what makes the difference. Chrysler looks down their nose at you and says, "You bought it, it's your problem now." Honda--in Japanese fashion--apologizes and takes care of you.
They put the oil spray kit on my 02 Odyssey, but I'm convinced that I will never, ever have to pay for a transmission repair or replacement on this van as long as I have it. At most it will take a little pushback, but between my dealer (with whom I have a great relationship) and Honda, they'll take care of me should the worst arise.
I don't buy Hondas to buy $5000 problems. I buy Hondas to avoid $5000 problems. So do most people. The problem is, Honda nonetheless foisted $5000 problems onto many, many of their customers--many of whom went ahead and paid for the repair, ignorant of the issue or of how simply to ask to be taken care of.
And then there are the ones who go through life with an in-your-face "screw the dealers, they're scum" attitude. They'll never have a relationship with the dealer that gives the dealer any incentive to work with them. Fine with me.
Dr Nick - 06 Nov 2005 19:01 GMT go back to Nissan with the Infiniti G35 (I miss RWD a lot)
well, I live in newengland, and I know RWD is NOT fun in the snow.... my brother had a 99.5 Audi A4 quatro and that was the best car I've driven in the snow. (actually better than the infiniti FX35 he has now, he wishes he didn't give up the audi)
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 06 Nov 2005 20:01 GMT > well, I live in newengland, and I know RWD is NOT fun in the snow.... Ummmm......use snow tires.
Problem solved.
I'd much rather have a RWD car with snow tires than a FWD or AWD car with all-seasons.
Collectif LFG - 09 Nov 2005 20:03 GMT >I'd much rather have a RWD car with snow tires than a FWD or AWD car >with all-seasons. I agree with that - I never had any problem driving in the snow with a RWD... Actually, it is pretty fun, too.
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