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Car Forum / Honda Cars / November 2005honda civic dx - very poor gas milage
I just bought a 94 honda civic dx 4 door sedan with 154k miles. I saw on edmunds.com that they are supposed to get inbetween 35 and 40 mile per gallon, but I get about 32 tops. I'm the only one who uses it - no passengers, or other weight for that matter, the car is very clean inside. I replaced the spark plugs with bosch platnum 2's (you don't have to adjust them i heard - correct me if I'm wrong). I usually run lower grade gas (87 or so). Tire pressure is fine. Other thoughts are: - new air filter (would probably get a K&N ram air - good idea?) - new spark plug wires (the ones I've got are fine except I noticed a small amount of oil on one which I cleaned off) - bosch platnum 4's (any better than bp 2's?) - change transmission fluid - oil change spend about $75 on fuel a week and bought this car because of gas milage - help! Crandall009.5 wrote: > I just bought a 94 honda civic dx 4 door sedan with 154k miles. I saw > on edmunds.com that they are supposed to get inbetween 35 and 40 mile [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > spend about $75 on fuel a week and bought this car because of gas > milage - help! My thoughts: Manual or auto tranny? On this version, the manual gets better mileage. Are you a lead-foot driver? Aggressive driving hurts mileage. I am skeptical of Bosch spark plugs. I would use OEM plugs (NGK or ND). I would avoid K&N air filters. Some of these have been known to cause problems with Toyotas. Not sure about how they would affect Hondas, but I would just get an OEM air filter. Is this all highway driving, or was there some city driving too? If the weather is getting colder, that will decrease your mileage. Manual Actually I just purchased bosch platnum 4's today (oops) oh well - no harm done mostly highway miles > I just bought a 94 honda civic dx 4 door sedan with 154k miles. I saw > on edmunds.com that they are supposed to get inbetween 35 and 40 mile [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > spend about $75 on fuel a week and bought this car because of gas > milage - help! ---------------------------------- The Bosch were a poor choice. . . Anyway, It may seem obvious to most folks around here, but I'm still amazed that people have a hard time figuring mileage. What method are you using for your calculations? Please be very specific. 'Curly' I filled my tank (till the pump turns off) and then reset the trip. When it is time to fill up I do the same, then divide the miles on the trip odometer by how many gallons purchased on the recept - I do this to the 1000th decimal place since that's how acurate the gas pumps are. This should get a perfect reading. >I filled my tank (till the pump turns off) and then reset the trip. > >When it is time to fill up I do the same, then divide the miles on the >trip odometer by how many gallons purchased on the recept - I do this >to the 1000th decimal place since that's how acurate the gas pumps are. > This should get a perfect reading. You should do this on a couple of tanks and then average the results. --------------- Alex Like Curly said, cold weather may be playing a role. But two other candidates for replacement for a car this age are the PCV valve and the O2 sensor. While both may operate satisfactorily after years and many miles, their operation may not be optimal. Buy only OEM for each. Should run you no more than about $25 for the PCV valve from your local dealer and $80 for the O2 sensor from https://www.automedicsupply.com/ . At a minimum, remove the PCV valve, spray it with PB Blaster. Wipe down, replace it. If you found significant waxy buildup in the PCV valve, then just cleaning it may make a big difference. I can't tell from your post: Do you have new ignition wires? If they're old and you have a digital multimeter, do a resistance check on the ignition wires and report back. Are the wires OEM? If you're getting oil in the spark plug tubes, say so. I have a resource to help with this. I don't think platinum plugs make a difference in fuel mileage for this car, based on general reading as well as my own experience with both in my 91 Civic. Does the owner's manual okay Bosch plugs for your Civic? I don't think mine does. I use NGKs. Consider a new distributor cap and rotor, too. Elle Original owner, 1991 Civic LX, 172k miles, manual transmission, no air conditioning, 40+ mpg for most of the year. -- Honda home studies: http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness -- > I just bought a 94 honda civic dx 4 door sedan with 154k miles. I saw > on edmunds.com that they are supposed to get inbetween 35 and 40 mile [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > spend about $75 on fuel a week and bought this car because of gas > milage - help! Consider also: -- replacing the fuel filter -- putting a bottle of Chevron Techron (an injector cleaner) into the fuel tank, too, per the bottle's directions. -- Doing an air purge of the coolant system and making sure it's filled to the proper level. If time allows, change out the coolant, unless you know it's new and OEM or orange Dexcool. Actually Today when I was replacing my spark plugs I noticed there was oil in the plug tubes. The guy at the auto parts store said that is caused from not tightening the valve cover - since I just replaced the valve cover gasket. My question is what to tighten it to? I have a torque wrench. Also, I haven't done anything with the ignition system and I believe it is stock. First, I would replace the PCV valve, distributor rotor and cap, and ignition wires. Use only genuine Honda parts. (That's what OEM implies: original equipment manufacturer.) The new ignition parts will help preserve the igniter and coil (which are within the distributor) too. The igniter and coil are expensive and do fail often on Hondas, unless one is obsessively careful about maintenance. So the latter distributor parts are a great investment for only $100 or so. If the ones in your car are old, then replacing these parts should make a noticeable difference in fuel mileage. See my site http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id3.html for the two most common causes of oil in the spark plug tubes for 1990s Hondas and how to remedy them. Your auto parts store guy is a little off. There are gaskets in the tubes themselves that fail over time. But one does have to remove the valve cover to get to them. The valve cover nuts are tightened to only 7 ft-lbs. Be very careful to tighten as evenly as possible. For a complete manual for your 94 Civic, including many, if not all, torque values, go to http://www.autozone.com . On the left, click on "Repair Info," then "Vehicle Repair Guides." Click on car year, make, and model, etc. Note: In the manuals and at online parts sites, the valve cover is also known as the "cylinder head cover." When driving, my understanding is it's best not to coast but to keep the car in gear. Letting the RPM fall below a certain low value results in the engine control system being less efficient. My anecdotal experience with my 91 civic's manual transmission seems to support this. > Actually Today when I was replacing my spark plugs I noticed there was > oil in the plug tubes. The guy at the auto parts store said that is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Also, I haven't done anything with the ignition system and I believe it > is stock. I heard that if the pcv valve rattles when shaken, it is still good: let me know if this is true. Ignition wires = spark plug wires? I know I'll be getting new spark plug wires soon, is there a particular brand that is better than others? Also: would it be worth it to throw away the bosch platnum 4's and get ngk plugs? (everyone obviously likes ngk's, but are they really that good? I bought the platnum 4's and installed them in the parking lot - I would've got ngks otherwise) How often should the valve lash be inspected? This is what annoys me greatly - I just replaced the valve cover gasket, and still I get oil in the tubes. The gasket is good, why does it make any difference if it is tightened too much. I put some sort of gasket sealer on the bottom side of all the gasket (the top has a lip which goes up into the cover), should I tear off the cover, clean and put on new sealer on top and bottom of gasket? Here is a list of most of the repairs that I'm thinking of doing so far, let me know which are more important: air filter distributor cap & rotor spark plug wires fuel filter O2 sensor PCV valve (if it doesn't rattle - correct me if wrong) Anything else? Oh - my tires were 175/70 13 on steel rims. I now put some rims/tires from another car on the front because of the snow but I'm going to get new tires on the steelys. Is 175/70 13 skinny/tall enough tire for good mileage? Oh - I just reread SoCalMike's note about how long I think this civic is going to last. There are roumors of an accord and a camery getting up to 1,000,000 miles - the camery was bought back by Toyota I believe. I'm not hoping for keeping my car for that long, but I'm running high mileage rated synthetic and doing everything possible to make it to at least 300k or 400k. I started another topic called: I want to run my civic to 1,000,000 miles - please help! > new tires on the steelys. Is 175/70 13 skinny/tall enough tire for > good mileage? oh, yeah. they tend to be the cheapest, made of the hardest rubber too. > I heard that if the pcv valve rattles when shaken, it is still good: > let me know if this is true. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > cover), should I tear off the cover, clean and put on new sealer on top > and bottom of gasket? It could be leaking at the O-ring gaskets under the rocker assembly. Mine was and the old O-ring were brittle and not rubbery anymore. > Here is a list of most of the repairs that I'm thinking of doing so > far, let me know which are more important: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > least 300k or 400k. I started another topic called: I want to run my > civic to 1,000,000 miles - please help! > I heard that if the pcv valve rattles when shaken, it is still good: > let me know if this is true. It's not necessarily true. For one thing, there's a spring in the PCV valve. After years of being compressed and decompressed, the spring doesn't apply the same force for the same deflection. Other internal parts may wear as well. With the car running, you can wrap the rubber hose going into the top of the PCV valve in cloth and then squeeze at this point until the hose is shut. Wait about 30 seconds. You should hear a click, which indicates the valve is operating at least somewhat. But it may not be operating optimally. Here's a drawing of your car's PCV system to help: http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay. jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Civic&catcgry2=1994&catcgry3=4DR+D X&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=BREATHER+CHAMBER > Ignition wires = spark plug wires? Yes. > I know I'll be getting new spark > plug wires soon, is there a particular brand that is better than > others? Buy genunine Honda spark plug wires. Get them at a dealer or an independent shop specialized in Hondas that says it sells only genunine OEM Honda parts. Or buy them online at the site above. > Also: would it be worth it to throw away the bosch platnum 4's > and get ngk plugs? (everyone obviously likes ngk's, but are they really > that good? It's not so much that people like them. It's that the manual says use them (and I think one other manufacturer's plugs). > I bought the platnum 4's and installed them in the parking > lot - I would've got ngks otherwise) I don't know if it's that big a deal. Maybe someone else has an answer. If someone else doesn't, then I guess I'd leave the Bosch's in for at least two years or 30k miles, whichever comes first to get some money out of them. > How often should the valve lash be inspected? This is what annoys me > greatly - I just replaced the valve cover gasket, and still I get oil > in the tubes. The gasket is good, why does it make any difference if > it is tightened too much. Did you read the web site which I posted?? That gasket isn't what causes leakage into the tubes. It's another set of gaskets that cause the leakage. Uneven tightening of the valve cover will tend to cause the gasket to not seat properly, allowing oil to leak down the exterior of the engine. Once you get the valve cover off, you'll see that it's a bit of a finesse job putting the gasket on and tightening evenly, so the gasket seats properly. > I put some sort of gasket sealer on the > bottom side of all the gasket (the top has a lip which goes up into the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > O2 sensor > PCV valve (if it doesn't rattle - correct me if wrong) Move the O2 sensor to the very bottom, and don't replace it until you've replaced the other things and seen if your fuel mileage improves. You might get a few more years out of the O2 sensor. (Alternatively, if you're feeling rich, go ahead and install a new O2 sensor.) > Anything else? Put a bottle of Chevron Techron ($6 or so) into an near empty fuel tank just before fill-up. That's it for now. After more miles and years you might have distributor igniter and distributor coil problems, but then the car flat-out won't start. The better you take care of the other items (the ones you list above), the longer the coil and igniter should last. On 11/19/05 4:58 PM, in article 1132441100.077566.229600@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, > Actually Today when I was replacing my spark plugs I noticed there was > oil in the plug tubes. The guy at the auto parts store said that is > caused from not tightening the valve cover - since I just replaced the > valve cover gasket. My question is what to tighten it to? I have a > torque wrench. The guy at the parts store is wrong. Overtightening the valve cover will not stop leakage in the plug holes. The correct torque is something on the order of 7 lb-ft. Your torque wrench likely does not register that low. When you replaced the cover gasket, did you get the OEM rubber gasket? Also, did you also get new rubber rings to seal the spark plug tubes? Additionally, some Honda models have a second set of seals further down the tubes that also need to be replaced at some point. Not sure if yours is one of them, but you should check. > Also, I haven't done anything with the ignition system and I believe it > is stock. i've used all oem parts so far I believe. I've read the entire website by Elle - I recommend it to others. I have a question: should I go and get the valve lash checked as well as the lower seals replaced? You think valve lash is something I should get checked now, or just replace the lower seals? Also - does anyone else have this oil in the spark plug tubes problem? What time does it usually start happening in a honda: mileage/years owned? Thanks > i've used all oem parts so far I believe. > > I've read the entire website by Elle - I recommend it to others. If you liked it, then see also www.tegger.com/hondafaq . It has a section on the oil in the spark plug tubes problem as well. The author, a guy that goes bye "Tegger" here, took the time to put up drawings that illustrate the matter better than the links my site provides. > I > have a question: should I go and get the valve lash checked as well as > the lower seals replaced? You think valve lash is something I should > get checked now, or just replace the lower seals? If you have the lower spark plug tube seals (really, O-rings, per my web site) replaced, then the valve lash adjusting screws have to be backed off all the way during the O-ring replacement procedure. After the new O-rings are in, the valve lash /has/ to be re-set. There's no way around it. Based on doing the job myself a few weeks ago, I would think the labor cost of replacing these spark plug tube O-rings would not be much more at all than just checking the valve lash. Setting the valve lash was the part of the O-ring replacement job that took the most time by far. Are you going to try this by yourself, by any chance? I really don't think it was that hard, but maybe I'm discounting all the experience I've had turning the crankshaft, checking valve lash, etc. in the past. > Also - does anyone else have this oil in the spark plug tubes problem? You can also groups.google the two honda newsgroups on the subject and see a number of people reporting having this problem. > What time does it usually start happening in a honda: mileage/years > owned? My records indicate that the first time the oil in the tubes for my 91 Civic LX was noticeable was at about 150k miles, and a little under 13 years. Two of the plugs/tubes had oil on/in them at this point. The oil accumulation did get noticeably worse, but it wasn't enough for me to fret over until I read more about others having problems with this here. Besides, I replaced the upper seals (gaskets), and I thought that was remedying the problem. It wasn't. >I just bought a 94 honda civic dx 4 door sedan with 154k miles. I saw >on edmunds.com that they are supposed to get inbetween 35 and 40 mile [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >spend about $75 on fuel a week and bought this car because of gas >milage - help! First some perspective. If you were getting 37 mpg, you would be spending about $65 per week. Significant savings, but not huge. I would not use a K&N filter, they let a lot more dirt go by than stock. A new stock filter might be in order if the old one looks dirty. If the plug wires are original or aftermarket parts you might want to replace them with Honda wires but don't expect any measurable improvement in mpg. I would use the specified NGK plugs also. Change the oil and transmission fluid if it is time, or if you don't know when it was done last. None of this is likely to measurably affect mpg, unless the car is not running well to start with. You have to consider how you drive the car - city or highway, flat or hilly, fast or slow, how much braking. Also, unless you live somewhere close to the sun, the temperatures are getting cold now and that will hurt milage. If you are driving 100% in a northern city, heavy foot on gas and brake I would say 32mpg is pretty good. If you are doing 90% highway miles at 60mph then 32 mpg would be mediocre but not "very poor." > I just bought a 94 honda civic dx 4 door sedan with 154k miles. I saw > on edmunds.com that they are supposed to get inbetween 35 and 40 mile > per gallon, but I get about 32 tops. I'm the only one who uses it - no is it a 5spd? or automatic? the auto is rated 29/36, so 32 isnt bad. my CX is rated 32/37 and i get about 32 regardless. i dont lose sleep over it. > passengers, or other weight for that matter, the car is very clean > inside. I replaced the spark plugs with bosch platnum 2's (you don't > have to adjust them i heard - correct me if I'm wrong). I usually run > lower grade gas (87 or so). Tire pressure is fine. Other thoughts does it have the same size tire on it that it came from the factory with? check your door jamb sticker and compare to whats on there. a taller, skinnier, harder compound tire would give better mileage. thats why mine came with 175/70-14 from the factory. firestone FR680s. i replaced em after 6 years, even though they had a lot of tread left. got some 185/60-14s and it handles much better... but i lost an mpg or 2. > are: > - new air filter (would probably get a K&N ram air - good idea?) more air needs more fuel to burn. people buy em to race or rice, not for economy > - new spark plug wires (the ones I've got are fine except I noticed a > small amount of oil on one which I cleaned off) > - bosch platnum 4's (any better than bp 2's?) NGK or ND plugs wouldve been my first choices > - change transmission fluid > - oil change > > spend about $75 on fuel a week and bought this car because of gas > milage - help! if all you care about is mileage, a subaru justy or geo metro of that era would have been a better choice. or a jetta or benz diesel. hm... 75/$2.30=32.6 32.6*32=1043 miles/week 1043/5= 208.6miles/workday if i was driving 200 miles to work and back 5 days a week, id be looking for a job closer to home :) i love my honda, but i dont wanna spend 4 hours a day in it. you DO realize thats 52,000 miles a year, right? how long do you think that 154k mile civic is going to last? >a taller, skinnier, harder compound tire would give better mileage. >thats why mine came with 175/70-14 from the factory. firestone FR680s. > >i replaced em after 6 years, even though they had a lot of tread left. >got some 185/60-14s and it handles much better... but i lost an mpg or 2. Maybe more. Did you factor in odometer error? A smaller diameter tire will register higher speeds and more miles than it is really traveling. > >a taller, skinnier, harder compound tire would give better mileage. > >thats why mine came with 175/70-14 from the factory. firestone FR680s. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tire will register higher speeds and more miles than it is really > traveling. Doesn't matter, the engine probably had to put in about the same amount of work, regardless of the tire's offset. Pars >>> a taller, skinnier, harder compound tire would give better mileage. >>> thats why mine came with 175/70-14 from the factory. firestone FR680s. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Doesn't matter, the engine probably had to put in about the same amount of > work, regardless of the tire's offset. probably a bit more work, since the new tires are wider and stickier > Pars Wow! 200miles/day!?!. I'd want to keep the time spent on the road to a minimum. If I were you, I'd drop the weakly 1.5L engine in the 94DX and get a 96+ DX with a manual tranny. By trading up, you get a bigger and more robust engine. The 5spd 96+ Civic is able to cruise at 85mpg and return 32 mpg which should shave on the fatigue factor. Also, It would be wise to splurge on the tires (unless you've got a big life insurance policy and you're in a rush to meet the next life). That much time spent on the road while holding down a regular job is a bad mix. So, keeping the vehicle as safe a possible is a priority and fuel consumption secondary. For Maintenance; -At 50,000 miles/year, you'll need a timing belt change every 2 years. -A tansmission oil change annually. -If you're using synthetic, I'd change at every 10,000 miles and Rotate the tires everytime you do an oil change. -If you get winters, get 'ice' tires ('snow' tires for us Canadians) Pars > > I just bought a 94 honda civic dx 4 door sedan with 154k miles. I saw > > on edmunds.com that they are supposed to get inbetween 35 and 40 mile [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > you DO realize thats 52,000 miles a year, right? how long do you think > that 154k mile civic is going to last? > I just bought a 94 honda civic dx 4 door sedan with 154k miles. I saw > on edmunds.com that they are supposed to get inbetween 35 and 40 mile [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > spend about $75 on fuel a week and bought this car because of gas > milage - help! You bought an eleven-year-old car and expect like-new "55 mph book" mileage? I have a bridge that I want to sell you.  Signature<politics suspended for this NG> > You bought an eleven-year-old car and expect like-new "55 mph book" mileage? > > I have a bridge that I want to sell you. It is possible for a car that old to get "like new" mileage. My '93 Accord has 140,000 miles on it and still gets 32-34mpg on the highway, which is considerably better than what EPA estimated. > > You bought an eleven-year-old car and expect like-new "55 mph book" mileage? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Accord has 140,000 miles on it and still gets 32-34mpg on the highway, > which is considerably better than what EPA estimated. If the tires are not the stock size, your measuemt of miles driven will be wrong and your calculation of MPG will be wrong... also .., are the brakes dragging? Mark |
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