95 civic 5 speed starting problem

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wolf_y - 01 Dec 2005 20:57 GMT

Can't find a thread specific enough so here's another one on starting
problems.

First, the car is my son's and it quit on him 60 miles from here so
he's having it towed home. He can't do much troubleshooting along the
roadside and left his Haynes at home, so I'm seeking help on what to
look for.

While driving it suddenly died and won't restart. It died yesterday
but restarted within 2-3 minutes. Otherwise, he's had no starting
problems.

Engine cranks but he doesn't smell fuel or hear the fuel pump. He'll
check for spark when it is home.

Fuses check out okay.

A parts guy at the dealer suggested the ignition relay. If so, how
does he determine if it's the relay or the fuel pump?

For a number of months the car's been surging a bit at idle. Just
throwing that in incase it's a worthwhile clue.

We replaced the ignitor about a year ago, but I don't recall if we had
the same symptoms then.

TIA for any help.

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Remco - 01 Dec 2005 21:41 GMT

> Can't find a thread specific enough so here's another one on starting
> problems.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> TIA for any help.

Check www.tegger.com -- go to the non start condition.

It could also be the ignition switch as that drives the main relay. You
may want to trace the schematic and probe to the coil of the main relay
first, to alleviate chasing your tail and replacing parts that are
perfectly fine.

If the main relay / fuel pump is suspect, you could hook a small 12V
lightbulb (or voltmeter) across the fuel pump.
When you turn the key first time, you should hear a click and see the
light (or voltage present in case of using a voltmeter) on for a brief
time. When starting/running, it should be on all the time.

Obviously if you see the light at the appropriate times and yet get no
gas, the pump or related to fuel delivery is at fault.

Also be sure to follow the directions on resoldering the main relay, if
that ends up being the problem because that will save you serious
money.

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wolf_y - 02 Dec 2005 00:21 GMT

Thanks for responding quickly. After the car was towed home it
started, so there's a good chance it's the main relay. We'll check it
first and try resoldering (I last worked on pc boards 30 years ago). I
already have a 12 volt trouble light (essential to tune a TR-3 I used
to have) so your tips are easy to follow.

Tegger's site is a great one so my son will bookmark it.

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High Tech Misfit - 02 Dec 2005 01:00 GMT

> Thanks for responding quickly. After the car was towed home it
> started, so there's a good chance it's the main relay. We'll check it
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Tegger's site is a great one so my son will bookmark it.

Actually, I doubt it's the main relay. Since it died while it was
moving, I believe that it's either the ignition switch or the igniter.

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Remco - 02 Dec 2005 04:01 GMT

> > Thanks for responding quickly. After the car was towed home it
> > started, so there's a good chance it's the main relay. We'll check it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Actually, I doubt it's the main relay. Since it died while it was
> moving, I believe that it's either the ignition switch or the igniter.

I agree it could be many other things (like the ignition switch or
possibly the ignitor) but to say that it /isn't/ the main relay is a
little far fetched and certainly not technically sound.
We really don't have enough info, do we? All we know that it died while
driving and it started back up when towed. We don't know if the problem
is fire, air or fuel related. It could be anything so there's no point
in saying what it cannot be - only what it possibly can be.

If it is the main relay, who's to say whether they fail during driving
or starting? As it is a soldering contact failure, they can fail at any
time - starting or running.
We've all heard and possibly given the advice to listen for the clicks,
but how about if the contact portion of the relay has failed -- you'd
still hear the click, so does this mean it isn't the relay? Clearly
not.

It takes more trouble shooting - not just pulling parts.

Use John's (tegger.com) site and go through the steps to see what it
might be. Check for the basics and go from there.
Wolf seems to know what he's doing if he's worked on a TR3 -- he'll be
allright.

Let us know how you make out, wolf.

Remco

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Graham W - 02 Dec 2005 20:48 GMT

>>> Thanks for responding quickly. After the car was towed home it
>>> started, so there's a good chance it's the main relay. We'll check
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Let us know how you make out, wolf.

Have a look at www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm and see if you can
spot any similarities.

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wolf_y - 05 Dec 2005 15:20 GMT

I was busy with kitchen remodeling so my daughter's boyfriend tried
resoldering the main relay. After reinstalling on Friday, my son made
it about 6 miles before it died. An hour later, it started and he
drove home. So, I just bought a new one and he drove for 2 days (one
trip of about 15 miles) with no problems.

We live in Olympia where temps currently range from about 30 to 40
degrees F. After his car died Friday, he drove home with the heater
off.

BTW, when the igniter failed the car NEVER started.

Thanks for the help.

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Remco - 05 Dec 2005 16:23 GMT

> I was busy with kitchen remodeling so my daughter's boyfriend tried
> resoldering the main relay. After reinstalling on Friday, my son made
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks for the help.

Good point -- ignitors seem to fail and never work again.

Glad you got it working again.
Remco

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E Meyer - 02 Dec 2005 02:48 GMT

On 12/1/05 2:57 PM, in article
1133470625.006546.19550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "wolf_y"

> Can't find a thread specific enough so here's another one on starting
> problems.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> TIA for any help.

Sounds like the ignition switch.

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