 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Honda Cars / December 20052006 Honda Civic mini-review
Here's my mini-review of the new Civic, reposted from rec.autos.tech: I looked at a new Civic yesterday, more out of curiosity then anything else since my 88 Volvo is still running nicely at 195k miles. Engine compartment(!): Cramped, cramped, cramped. In its quest for an additional 0.25 mpg, Honda has seen fit to move the front edge of the windshield over most of the rear engine accessories (PS pump, throttle body, et al). Looks like you can only get to them from the bottom, or may even have to pull the engine (unless the engine rolls forward like in some GMs). What good is an additional 0.25MPG if the economical service life of the car is reduced? Remember that more than 50% of the energy expended by a car is spend building it. No electric power steering on anything but the Si and hybrid. Sigh. Gauges: The digital gauges are neat. However, there does seem to be a lot of wasted space on the bottom cluster around the tach. Why not put gauge blanks for optional gauges there (or an optional NAV screen in front of the driver's eyes)? True, there are warning lights and an auto trans shift quadrant beside the tach, but there's still wasted space there. Trunk: Pleasantly huge for a car of that size. The rear seat folds 60/40. Unfortunately, the folding mechanism seems to be only in the trunk - I'd prefer to be able to fold the seat from the *INSIDE* of the car! Si/Hatchback: What happened? The Si is now a coupe. I loved the little square hatchbacks made from the 80s to the 90s. Good mileage, practical, and a bit different from everything on the road. I guess Honda has a "sporty" image to maintain in the US and hatches just don't fit into that mold. But it would be neat if they built a car that combined sport and practicality, like the current Subaru WRX or old Volvo 1800ES. Those are selling like hotcakes, BTW. Honda, give us a new CRX please. I wonder if building a sporty version of the Insight with better tires, suspension, and gearing at the expense of a few MPG could be justified. Call it the first sports hybrid. Maybe even make it AWD using a 15hp pancake motor driving the rear axle. (The new Lexus RWD hybrid sedan is more of a luxury touring car.) I guess if you want cargo room, you have to go to one of Honda's SUV-esque vehicles like the Element (which has its own problems in its narrow rear seat - why can't Honda offer 3-person rear seating as an option?) Update: Honda is making a Civic hatch, just not for US sale anymore: http://www.modernracer.com/autonews/autonewshondacivicpic2.jpg Looks neat, kind of like a modern interpretation of a Saab 900T, if you ask me. -Andrew > Here's my mini-review of the new Civic, reposted from rec.autos.tech: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Engine compartment(!): > Cramped, cramped, cramped. In its quest for an additional 0.25 mpg, I used to think Honda's struggle for every last 1/10 mpg was an attempt at improving their CAFE numbers. Now I'm not so sure. From what I've been reading in Forbes and other publications, is seems more now like Honda is simply losing focus. I think they're just getting obsessive about "safety" and enviro-stuff, almost to the exclusion of all else. The cars are no longer cars to Honda, but are instead flagships for their particular safety/enviro philosophy. Honda's biggest achievements in recent years have not been automotive at all: Asimo the robot, and a genetically engineered form of rice (yes!). http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=10373 All good things in-and-of themselves of course, but not to us as Honda drivers.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > I used to think Honda's struggle for every last 1/10 mpg was an attempt at > improving their CAFE numbers. Now I'm not so sure. From what I've been [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The cars are no longer cars to Honda, but are instead flagships for their > particular safety/enviro philosophy. Remember the good old days, when Honda used to be run by engineers? Dave > Remember the good old days, when Honda used to be run by engineers? > Dave And the situation is not much better with their bikes. Witness abominations like the 1800cc Shadow and the Valkyrie. And the lack of a large selection of 'standard' bikes and street legal dual sports in the US. OTOH, the 599 is a pretty good all-around bike that I wouldn't mind owning if it were about $1000 cheaper new than it is now. However, they should really release a 250cc and 400cc sport standard bike in North America - 250cc scooters are all well and good, but they aren't motorcycles. And the Nighthawk 250, with its drum brakes and 30-year-old engine design is just sad - Kawasaki's 250cc Ninja eats it for lunch and is actually cheaper. -Andrew If the Honda Jazz/Fit is available now or is supposed to be in the near future where you are, I would be interested in your comparison of it to the 06 Civic. If you feel like it... :-) Right now, I'm thinking my next wheels be a Fit/Jazz. Five years down the line or so, I suppose. > Here's my mini-review of the new Civic, reposted from rec.autos.tech: > If the Honda Jazz/Fit is available now or is supposed to be > in the near future where you are, I would be interested in > your comparison of it to the 06 Civic. If you feel like > it... :-) Elle, if you do see a Jazz wherever you live, post yer review here. I'm in the US in New Jersey (very close to NYC). The Jazz wasn't available at the dealer's, nor do I see it listed on Honda's US website. The Jazz is a mini-wagon, right? Honda seems to have given up on wagons, hatchbacks, and light sporty cars in the US, unfortunately. (They're keeping the Insight so they can keep their place as the builders of the car with the highest fuel economy rating in the US.) Honda, if you are listening, bring a sports version of the Insight to the US. Give the option of adding two pancake motors in the rear to give, in effect, an AWD system with a limited-slip rear differential. Since the front motor would be used for regenerative braking, the rear motors could be comparatively low-tech permanent magnet DC motors, which would keep price down (PMDC motors are inefficient if used as generators unless battery voltage is very close to output voltage, and that can't be guaranteed). Cheers, Andrew "Andrew Szafran" > > If the Honda Jazz/Fit is available now or is supposed to be > > in the near future where you are, I would be interested in > > your comparison of it to the 06 Civic. If you feel like > > it... :-) > > Elle, if you do see a Jazz wherever you live, post yer review here. If a test drive with me behind the Fit wheel happens, it's going to be a few years down the line. But my dealer (here in the Western U.S.) says he'll have the Fit/Jazz in 2006. I've seen reputable sites on the net saying the same. > I'm in the US in New Jersey (very close to NYC). The Jazz wasn't > available at the dealer's, nor do I see it listed on Honda's US website. > The Jazz is a mini-wagon, right? I guess so, from the pictures at the site below. A bit Cooper-esque. > Honda seems to have given up on wagons, > hatchbacks, and light sporty cars in the US, unfortunately. I hear you. Maybe Honda did, too, hence the Jazz/Fit! It's been coming up now and then this past year here. Here's a site with lots of photos: http://fitfreak.net/gallery/ See especially: http://fitfreak.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=11 Take care, E > "Andrew Szafran" > It's been coming up now and then this past year here. > Here's a site with lots of photos: > http://fitfreak.net/gallery/ > See especially: > http://fitfreak.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=11 *Now* I see it on the Honda web site. (Didn't look too closely at work :) Thanks! I guess the dealer's salesdroid was wrong about Honda not importing any more hatchbacks to the US. Looks like it'll be something equivalent to the wonderful 'tall Civics' that were offered in the late 80s, but probably no AWD. As far as an armchair review - interior looks nice and roomy, but again the nose is very short, so it likely has the same engine compartment space issues as the new Civic. -Andrew "Andrew Szafran" <gro.ratsenol.fds@ukozosob.BACKWARDS.invalid> > As far as an armchair review - interior looks nice and roomy, but again > the nose is very short, so it likely has the same engine compartment space > issues as the new Civic. Yes, from the photos, that engine compartment looks /very/ tight. > Yes, from the photos, that engine compartment looks /very/ > tight. Another point about the small compartment... I wonder if it'll have an engine heat issues due to the fact that the cat is *in front* of the base engine (the intake manifold is in back). Hopefully, they've made the mixture control very tight so the thing doesn't heat up too much except on startup. The Si's engine seems to have all of its exhaust hardware in back of it and the cat under the car, so this may be less of an issue. -Andrew In my 98 Civic Hatch, the catz's also under the hood. Having the cat safely tucked away inside the hood instead of being exposed to the hazards on the underside seems like a more ideal placement. I've got 260,000km on the cat and it's still passing emission. Pars > > Yes, from the photos, that engine compartment looks /very/ > > tight. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -Andrew > "Andrew Szafran" > <gro.ratsenol.fds@ukozosob.BACKWARDS.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Yes, from the photos, that engine compartment looks /very/ > tight. small on the outside, big on the inside. itll be neat to see what little space saving tricks they can pull. side note: my mom has a 2003 scion xA (the NOT popular one), purchased mostly because i recommended it and wanted one myself. anyway- checking out the engine compartment, i noticed its kind of tight, but laid out very methodically. typical toyota engineering! one thing ive never seen before was the radiator overflow bottle is molded into/part of the fan shroud. saves space, saves parts, saves assembly time. and of course, it has a plastic intake manifold. > Si/Hatchback: > What happened? The Si is now a coupe. I loved the little square [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > practicality, like the current Subaru WRX or old Volvo 1800ES. Those are > selling like hotcakes, BTW. The Honda Fit*: Coming Spring 2006. Small on the outside, big on the inside, the Fit will transform the way you live. That's because the Fit has the same Honda quality, know-how and dependability built right in. There's not a whole lot of information we can reveal right now, but rest assured there will be a few surprises for those expecting the steering wheel to simply move to the left. So look for the U.S. Fit to satisfy your needs for fun-to-drive excitement. Now that the Civic is more upscale, there's space for the Honda Fit to fit in... Back in 98 I bought my bare bone Civic Hatch for $14K Canadian (when Canadian dollar was only worth 65% that of US). And that's with a bigger 1.6L engine and the most vaunted suspension system out on the market. I wonder if the Fit can compare? It's going to have to really pack-in the options since the sporting aspect will be somewhat lacking. Also, I feel that a 1.5L is a little too small for highway driving (unless it's turbo charged). A good displacement that return good highway mileage should start at 1.6L. That way, you don't need to rely on the high rev's to maintain a good cruising speed. Perhaps in Japan, highway driving isn't a priority, but in N.A., I would say at least 1/2 of the driving is at high speeds. Pars > > Si/Hatchback: > > What happened? The Si is now a coupe. I loved the little square [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > So look for the U.S. Fit to satisfy your needs for fun-to-drive excitement. > Now that the Civic is more upscale, there's space for the Honda Fit to fit > in... I recall that in decades past, Toyota seemed to let a popular model get better, bigger, more expensive, and then slipped a new model in under it in the product line. Maybe that's what Honda is doing now. --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5 > that a 1.5L is a little too small for highway driving (unless it's turbo > charged). A good displacement that return good highway mileage should start > at 1.6L. That way, you don't need to rely on the high rev's to maintain a 1.5L will put out about 100-110hp, knowing Honda. The Fit weighs less than 2500lb. My current car is 115hp and a bit over 3000lb. My old Fiat Spyder was about 2400lb (IIRC) and had 80hp (out of 2L due to badly-implemented emission controls). Neither car had the least problem cruising at 80-85 mph. Even if the Honda engine does have to rev a bit due to poor low-end torque, so what? Honda engines are normally short stroke and can take that kind of driving without damage or too much loss of fuel economy. If you want a low-revving cruiser, get a Town Car or Dodge Magnum... If you want an economical small car, get the Fit. (BTW, both types of cars have their places and I'm not knocking the American full-sized cars - with me, "knocking" is reserved for SUVs :) -Andrew I have just driven the rather nice 2.2 diesel Honda Civic. A great drive,with 50+ mpg. Don't like the bar across the rear view, but I could live with it. Too many instruments, I would not even like to guess the price of the main instrument panel, but it will cost a packet if it ever needs to be replaced. >> that a 1.5L is a little too small for highway driving (unless it's turbo >> charged). A good displacement that return good highway mileage should [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > -Andrew Thanks for the report Mike, I was wondering about all the gear being on the wheel How did you find the chrome pedals - I'm not sure I would like the sensation my foot slipping off the pedals ? I can get 50 mpg with my present 1.7 ctdi civic (2004) but I take it the 2.2 had a lot more power ? is it true the 2006 model has a full glass roof ? Jim (UK) >I have just driven the rather nice 2.2 diesel Honda Civic. A great >drive,with 50+ mpg. Don't like the bar across the rear view, but I could [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> -Andrew Jim, No problem for me with feet sliding off the pedals. I did find the pedals were rather close together though. The model I drove did not have glass roof. It was one of the sport models with 18 inch wheels. It seemed pretty fast to me. It has a vehicle stability assist button. I was advised not to turn it off due to the low temperature and wet conditions. The flash instrument panel gives you a continuous read out of you MPG. When you back off it goes right up 100 MPG. Regards, Mike > Thanks for the report Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >>> >>> -Andrew > I wonder if the Fit can compare? It's going to have to really pack-in the > options since the sporting aspect will be somewhat lacking. Also, I feel and to compete with the scions, that have power windows, locks, AC, and a nice stereo standard for under $14k. > that a 1.5L is a little too small for highway driving (unless it's turbo > charged). A good displacement that return good highway mileage should start > at 1.6L. That way, you don't need to rely on the high rev's to maintain a > good cruising speed. Perhaps in Japan, highway driving isn't a priority, but > in N.A., I would say at least 1/2 of the driving is at high speeds. theyre big in europe, so maybe the gearings different? Hey Pars, remember me? Where's Crush? Hey Crush, it's been 5 1/2 years and 90k miles now, but still no sheet metal warpage on my Civic.... http://www.lt-solutions.com/images/Picture%20001.jpg http://www.lt-solutions.com/images/Picture%20004.jpg http://www.lt-solutions.com/images/Picture%20005.jpg http://www.lt-solutions.com/images/Picture%20007.jpg http://www.lt-solutions.com/images/Picture%20010.jpg http://www.lt-solutions.com/images/Picture%20012.jpg http://www.lt-solutions.com/images/Picture%20013.jpg http://www.lt-solutions.com/images/Picture%20018.jpg LOL! -- Mark '99 Civic Si > Here's my mini-review of the new Civic, reposted from rec.autos.tech: > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > practicality, like the current Subaru WRX or old Volvo 1800ES. Those are > selling like hotcakes, BTW. If you are interested in a SI -- at an exorbitant price, see Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CIVIC-Si-06-WARNING-TOTAL-PRICE-YOUR-BID-AD M_W0QQitemZ4598415002QQcategoryZ6256QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The same could be said for the Accord coupe 6 speed. I saw one advertised at an Atlanta dealer for over 31k. > Honda, give us a new CRX please. I wonder if building a sporty version of > the Insight with better tires, suspension, and gearing at the expense of a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -Andrew > If you are interested in a SI -- at an exorbitant price, see Ebay. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CIVIC-Si-06-WARNING-TOTAL-PRICE-YOUR-BID-AD M_W0QQitemZ4598415002QQcategoryZ6256QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > The same could be said for the Accord coupe 6 speed. I saw one advertised > at an Atlanta dealer for over 31k. dayum! its not like its an xbox360! |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.