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Car Forum / Honda Cars / December 20051992 Accord idle problem
I just bought a 1992 Accord with 84k for my teenagers to beat up on. Of course it seemed to run fine when I test drove it, but now it vibrates roughly when idling in gear and surges when in park and the radiator fan comes on. I've learned a lot by reading the info from this group, and would welcome any insight into my problem and reasoning so far. The car idles at 1000-1100 rpm when warm according to the dash tach. I know the motor mounts "go soft" around 750 rpm, which is spec, so I think the vibration is due to the fast idle. I removed the top from the fast idle valve, and noted air rushing through the valve even when the car is warmed up, which tells me the valves not operating as it should. When I push down on the valve the idle picked up. I cleaned the valve, but air still rushs through when the cars warm. Thinking that the electronic air control valve wasn't operating the FIV properly, I cleaned the EACV, which did have a dirty screen but it didn't help the rough idle. In fact, I didn't notice the the surging while in park with the radiator fan running until after I cleaned the EACV, although it could have existed prior. When I unplugged the motor on the EACV the idle didn't drop as I've read it should. I did get a check engine message and the car starting missing after a while. I cleared the computer, restarted the car and it runs as before, with the rough idle and surging in park. Now I suspect the EACV might be shot, and am considering replacing it, but I've read it's $300 or so. Is there anything else I should check or some way to tell for sure if it's indeed the EACV before I start plugging expensive parts into the car? Thanks in advance for any advice. Todd > I just bought a 1992 Accord with 84k for my teenagers to beat up on. Of > course it seemed to run fine when I test drove it, but now it vibrates [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Todd I wonder if it idles rough because the fan comes on or does it run rough and the fan just happens to come on because it is warming up. This is just a thought, but does it start to idle rough when you turn another load on, like the lights, rear defog, etc? If so, it could be the Electric Load Detector (ELD) as that is supposed to adjust for the load. Remco Thanks for the reply. The car idles rough when in drive and stopped. The car surges between 1000-1500 rpm when the car's in park and the radiator fan's on. I'm going to try running the A/C to see if it's the extra load that causes the surging or the change in coolant temp. > I wonder if it idles rough because the fan comes on or does it run > rough and the fan just happens to come on because it is warming up. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Remco Until the pros show up, consider the following: The 92 Accord has a free online manual. It has a specific troubleshooting procedure for the EACV, to either identify it as malfunctioning or eliminate it as a cause of the problem. See http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/media/manuals/AccordManua l/400/6-194.pdf . Backtrack from this address to get to more troubleshooting procedures that might help. Try both the idle sections and the emissions control sections. Though the troubleshooting chart (backtracking from the site above) for the "Idle Control System" sure does tend to point to the EAC valve. I would start by doing a proper air purge of the cooling system. The EAC valve (among other engine control components) is cooled by anti-freeze in the cooling system. If there's air in the system, the EACV line is one place where it will tend to accumulate. This was a problem on my 91 Civic's EACV a year ago. My car idled high at stops, shortly after replacing the thermostat. I hadn't properly purged the system of air after the thermostat job. A proper air purge fixed my idle problem. During the air purge procedure, note that it may take more than 30 minutes for the radiator fan to come on twice. At first I thought that this likely won't fix your car's problem, because of the coincidence of the radiator fan coming on, etc. But then it occurred to me that of course when the radiator fan comes on, it changes conditions (temperature etc.) in the cooling system. So maybe all your car needs is this air purge. Either way, one should start from as normal a "baseline" as possible when troubleshooting. "Normal" of course means the cooling system is filled and purged properly. I believe the EAC valve runs around $175 at the OEM online Honda parts sites, assuming I have picked out the correct valve for your car at www.slhonda.com , which is not entirely clear (or I've found the wrong valve). for your Accord, I think it's under "throttle body" and is labeled "valve assy." The EAC valve is this much for my 91 Civic. I would also be reading up on the EGR valve. My recollection is if it's dirty, it too will cause idle problems. Go to www.groups.google and search this newsgroup for EGR valve cleaning and discussion. (My Civic does not have an EGR valve, so I'm going from memory--past reading here--on this one.) > I just bought a 1992 Accord with 84k for my teenagers to beat up on. Of > course it seemed to run fine when I test drove it, but now it vibrates [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Todd Thanks a lot for all the great info and advice. You sound like on of the pros to me. I'd like to get my coolant purged and changed anyway, so I'll go ahead and do that first. I did change the EGR valve, and the new one seems to be working, but it's aftermarket and could be suspect. I may go ahead and get one from the dealer since they're inexpensive. Great news about the EACV, $175 sure beats $300. > Until the pros show up, consider the following: I've noticed your last couple of state something like this (referring to the pros showing up). At the risk of sounding like a smartass, we have pros on this forum? Why the preamble? Remco To me, "pros" include any Honda enthusiast or technician with significant amateur or for-pay experience. So we have plenty. ISTM you're one. I on the other hand don't like posts by anyone that mislead the original poster or others into thinking that the person posting has significant experience with an area. Folks with 'stuttering' and/or hard-to-start car problems lately, for example: Now that could several things that I've explored/troubleshot personally with my car, but it could also be, say, automatic transmission problems, with which I have no experience. Some guy posted here recently with a TDC crank sensor code--I thought sure he was looking at a new distributor housing. Nope. Starter. How that led to the TDC crank sensor code leaves me scratching my head. Lately I'm posting right away 'cause I'm online, watching the stock market and pretentiously (but in fact actually) researching personal investments, anyway, and I figure the poor fellow/gal posting here with Honda problems would like /some relevant/ guidance, even if it's only where to find online manuals. Plus I like learning about things mechanical and electrical; that really floats my boat. But a little humility is a good thing. Hopefully my preamble means nothing more than this. > Elle wrote: > > Until the pros show up, consider the following: > > I've noticed your last couple of state something like this (referring > to the pros showing up). At the risk of sounding like a smartass, we > have pros on this forum? Why the preamble? > To me, "pros" include any Honda enthusiast or technician > with significant amateur or for-pay experience. So we have [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > smartass, we > > have pros on this forum? Why the preamble? Thanks for the clarification. A little while back someone pretentiously and sarcastically posted that he enjoyed the bumbling answers he heard on this group, implying he was the pro. Was wondering where you were coming from (you sound like a pro to me too). I hear ya and am learning a lot from everyone in this great group. I particularly like it when someone posts some weird problem and we collectively come up with a very workable solution, saving someone significant time and money - not bad for a bunch of amateurs, right? We don't need no stinking pros here! :) Remco "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote snip > > >At the risk of sounding like a smartass, we > > > have pros on this forum? Why the preamble? > > Thanks for the clarification. A little while back someone pretentiously > and sarcastically posted that he enjoyed the bumbling answers he heard > on this group, implying he was the pro. Agreed. Until the guy puts up, he should shaddup, AFAIC. If he wants to post here and give away his expertise for free, as a community service, go for it. Until then, he's all talk and no substance. > Was wondering where you were > coming from (you sound like a pro to me too). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > significant time and money - not bad for a bunch of amateurs, right? > We don't need no stinking pros here! :) lol I think that the learning curve at public fora such as this is very different from that of a technician who has been working in a Honda shop for several years. If one--anyone--reads here enough, s/he will accumulate I believe many more reports of non-start conditions (to name one category) and the correction that ultimately worked. A statistical cluster certainly does occur around certain causes of non-start conditions, for any make and year of car. Does Honda even keep count, sending notices out to dealers? I'm sure it does for major stuff. But not a lot of the minor stuff that is still nonetheless a huge headache for customers. A technician who spends much of the day doing everything from changing oil to timing belts (not to mention other time consuming repairs such as putting on a new CV boot or, god forbid, say, helping research warranties) simply can't accumulate this sense of statistical proportion for no-start conditions. So lacking this experience, the bona fide technicians, especially those with just a few years experience, can't diagnose as effectively in many instances as a group such as this, where this is an anecdotal mental count kept, of sorts, of typical problems with Hondas, by year and model. Generally speaking. I'm sure there are exceptions. Evidence of this is how clueless Honda and other shops seem to be (based on reports here) about, say, the main relay and igniter. Again, with exceptions. And shucks no, next time my alternator warning light comes on, I don't want to have to pay $300 for a new alternator at the dealer when I can pay $30 tops for a new brush assembly and fix it myself. |
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