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Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2006Transmission Lubrication
How do I lube a 4 speed manual transmission, in the 88-91 Civic Hatch? I know I have to use gear lube, but where do I put it?!? If you look at the right-side face of the transmission housing (where the right CV shaft comes out the differential), there is an oil filler plug above it (on the side face). The transmission drain plug is at the bottom (side) of that side-plate. Replacement capacity = 1.8 L (1.9 U.S. quarts) Torque settings: Oil filler plug = 45 N.m. (33 lb-ft) Oil drain plug = 40 N.m. (29 lb-ft) Use Genuine Honda Manual Transmission oil, NOT gear lube. The manual will say to use 10W-30 engine oil, but that was 15 years ago. From what I have heard, the oil chemistries have changed, so need to put the Honda stuff now (dealer service departments stock it....about $3 per quart). If you have problems locating the filler and drain plugs please drop a line, I will scan the diagram off the service manual and e-mail it over. > How do I lube a 4 speed manual transmission, in the 88-91 Civic Hatch? I > know I have to use gear lube, but where do I put it?!? > How do I lube a 4 speed manual transmission, in the 88-91 Civic Hatch? I > know I have to use gear lube, but where do I put it?!? you sure its gear lube? i thought that generation used 10w40. > How do I lube a 4 speed manual transmission, in the 88-91 Civic Hatch? I > know I have to use gear lube, but where do I put it?!? You have to put the car on stands and get underneath. There are two plugs in the side of the tranny case pointing at the right front wheel. The upper one is a fill, the lower one a drain. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/92-95_civic_mt_oil_change.pdf The above PDF is from the '92-'95 Civic, but the plug locations are the same as yours. The drain plug takes the square drive of a ratchet. Scrape out the dirt before inserting the ratchet to make sure it goes in far enough not to strip as you try to crack the drain loose. If the plugs have not been removed in a long time, you may have great difficulty breaking them loose. To fill, you need to have the car LEVEL, and you'll need a pump to attach to your lube bottle (a lot like a hand-soap bottle pump). The pump needs to have a clear vinyl hose that goes into the fill hole. Fill until it dribbles out. The pump is available at any auto supply store. The vinyl hose can come frm Home Depot if your pump didn't come with one. And use Honda MTL, not "gear lube" or the 10W-30 specifed in the workshop manual.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > "gmctruck68" <gmctruck68@aol.com> wrote in > > How do I lube a 4 speed manual transmission, in the 88-91 Civic Hatch? I > > know I have to use gear lube, but where do I put it?!? > in the side of the tranny case pointing at the right front wheel. The upper > one is a fill, the lower one a drain. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/92-95_civic_mt_oil_chang e.pdf > The above PDF is from the '92-'95 Civic, but the plug locations are the > same as yours. The drain plug takes the square drive of a ratchet. Scrape > out the dirt before inserting the ratchet to make sure it goes in far > enough not to strip as you try to crack the drain loose. If the plugs have > not been removed in a long time, you may have great difficulty breaking > them loose. A 1.5 foot breaker bar should be sufficient, though as always, be careful. Brace yourself so you don't get hurt, etc. > To fill, you need to have the car LEVEL, and you'll need a pump to attach > to your lube bottle (a lot like a hand-soap bottle pump). The pump needs to > have a clear vinyl hose that goes into the fill hole. Gravity feed works fine for 88-91 Civics; no pump is necessary. Buy the clear tubing at Lowe's or Home Depot for a few bucks, tops, probably. Three feet should be plenty. > And use Honda MTL, not "gear lube" or the 10W-30 specifed in the workshop > manual. Elaboration: Reports are that superior shifting occurs with the Honda MT fluid. More importantly, there are many claims on Usenet that 10W-30 and -40 have changed since about 1991 such that their chemistry is deleterious to the transmission. I don't buy that--yet. I have always used my 91 Civic's manual-specified 10W-30 or 10W-40. No problems after 173k miles. Anyone saying there will be problems down the road is speculating based on rumor innuendo. (Unless someone finally has coughed up a reputable citation on the subject.) If Honda thought 10W-30 or -40 today is dangerous to the transmission, I think they would have said something. www.autozone.com has a free online repair guide /specific/ to the 88-91 Civic that covers manual transmission fluid changes. With drawings and photos. <snip> > A 1.5 foot breaker bar should be sufficient, though as > always, be careful. Brace yourself so you don't get hurt, > etc. And make certain the ratchet square is well seated. You don't want to round off the square in the bolt. >> To fill, you need to have the car LEVEL, and you'll need a > pump to attach [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Gravity feed works fine for 88-91 Civics; no pump is > necessary. Gravity works fine for my car too, and I used that method for years. But I've since found it's easier using the inexpensive hand-pump. > Buy the clear tubing at Lowe's or Home Depot for a few > bucks, tops, probably. Three feet should be plenty. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > such that their chemistry is deleterious to the > transmission. I don't buy that--yet. The anti-wear additives (ZDDP, for example) that used to be present in motor oils have been greatly reduced or eliminated in the interests of protecting the catalytic converter. Transmissions have no cat issues, so Honda MTF has loads of anti-wear additives (hence its distinctive odor). > I have always used my > 91 Civic's manual-specified 10W-30 or 10W-40. No problems [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If Honda thought 10W-30 or -40 today is dangerous to the > transmission, I think they would have said something. They have. An example from the '02 RS-X manual (pg 13-4): "Always use Honda Manual Transmission Fluid (MTF). Using motor oil can cause stiffer shifting because it does not contain the correct additives." SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> If Honda thought 10W-30 or -40 today is dangerous to the >> transmission, I think they would have said something. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cause stiffer shifting because it does not contain the correct > additives." Just checked the '96-'00 Civic Helm manual. It contains the same warning, word for word. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ On 1/8/06 3:47 PM, in article Xns9745AB0BBA8A6tegger@207.14.113.17, >>> If Honda thought 10W-30 or -40 today is dangerous to the >>> transmission, I think they would have said something. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Just checked the '96-'00 Civic Helm manual. It contains the same warning, > word for word. Go back another decade to the generation the OP has and check again. We had an '81 and an '87 and the recommended manual trans fluid was 10w-30 motor oil. There was also a caveat to not use synthetic because the synchros wouldn't work correctly with it. > On 1/8/06 3:47 PM, in article Xns9745AB0BBA8A6tegger@207.14.113.17, <snip> >> Just checked the '96-'00 Civic Helm manual. It contains the same >> warning, word for word. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 10w-30 motor oil. There was also a caveat to not use synthetic > because the synchros wouldn't work correctly with it. Yes, and my '91 Integra's shop manual also specifies 10W-30. But the point is that the motor oils in use now are not the same as those available in 1991. Honda's metallurgy for synchros is unlikely to have changed more than motor oil formulation. It appears that the changeover to the MTF specification coincides with the planning and implementation of much stricter OBD-II emission controls, which would have been the primary driver behind zinc and sulfur reductions in motor oils. Synthetic motor oils have greater film strength than mineral oils and are meant to reduce friction as much as possible. Synchros require friction to function. If the synchros cannot work correctly with the oil film that lies between their surfaces, they cannot correctly apply the friction that makes them work. Zinc and sulfur are sort of "sacrificial anodes", taking the brunt of the friction before the underlying synchro metal does, should the oil film break, which it will under heavy use. This is the reason Honda's MTF has the additives it does. Honda MTF is the preferable oil for any Honda manual transmission that originally specified 10W-30. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > > On 1/8/06 3:47 PM, in article Xns9745AB0BBA8A6tegger@207.14.113.17, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Yes, and my '91 Integra's shop manual also specifies 10W-30. <snip> > Honda MTF is the preferable oil for any Honda manual transmission that > originally specified 10W-30. I plant o use MTF next as well but.... my '93 civic honda sevice manual says 10w30 or 10w40 with a service grade of SF or SG would not the sevice grade SF / SG matching cover the concerns of oil formulation. robb On 1/11/06 12:17 PM, in article VYbxf.6657$%W1.3599@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote: >>> On 1/8/06 3:47 PM, in article Xns9745AB0BBA8A6tegger@207.14.113.17, >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > robb Lubrication wise, yes. But those ratings relate to the oil being used as motor oil, not transmission oil. The problem with synthetic (i.e. Mobil 1) was that it was (is) too slippery for the synchros to work correctly. They depend on a little friction to get them moving. > I plant o use MTF next as well but.... > > my '93 civic honda sevice manual says 10w30 or 10w40 with a service > grade of SF or SG Yeah. It was printed before the changes to oil configuration, as I said a few messages ago. > would not the sevice grade SF / SG matching cover the concerns of oil > formulation. SF & SG are obsolete. Good luck finding that stuff these days. All you'll find now is SL and SM. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > > would not the sevice grade SF / SG matching cover the concerns of oil > > formulation. > > SF & SG are obsolete. Good luck finding that stuff these days. All you'll > find now is SL and SM. well that is the issue then, *if* you could find SF/SG then you'd be ok but 10w30 spec is useless by itself ... where most people seem to be betting on 10w30 == 10w30 not robb > would not the sevice grade SF / SG matching cover the concerns of oil > formulation. if you can find oil that old. the concerns these days are all the friction reducers put into current oil grades that MIGHT cause the syncros to not work right. too much slipperiness can be a bad thing. "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote E > > If Honda thought 10W-30 or -40 today is dangerous to the > > transmission, I think they would have said something. > > They have. Sort of. But I don't discount the substance of what you cited. > An example from the '02 RS-X manual (pg 13-4): > "Always use Honda Manual Transmission Fluid (MTF). Using motor oil can > cause stiffer shifting because it does not contain the correct additives." ISTM a manual transmission is pretty much a manual transmission, so I agree that what's written in the 2002 Honda manual you cite above should apply to any year's transmission, including my 1991 Civic's. In the future, I will take note of it in posts, as it is helpful. OTOH, I remain hesitant to translate this to a prediction of disaster if one uses 10W-30 or -40. I can see that "stiffer shifting" implies more wear, but ISTM it might be negligible. Especially since the statement is qualified with "can cause" vs. "will cause." To read this like a lawyer blah blah... So I'm not panicked on this point. My intent, stated in the recent past, is to switch my 91 Civic to Honda MTF when the next tranny oil change is required, see if the shifting is superior, and draw more conclusions then. |
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