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Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 200687 Civic 4 door
I just purchased this car it has 212K. I replaced the ignition cap and rotor, spark plugs, fuel filters and changed the engine oil. It seems to run a bit rough, it hunts at idle slightly. The real problem is when I turn on the headlights, the idle jumps from about 750 to about 2250. I have not found any vacuum leaks (doesn't mean there isn't one) Anyone have any idea why and how to correct the idle situation. Thanks Forgot to mention the specs Engine 1.5L Carburated Trans 5 speed manual Again thanks Has anyone experienced this problem? Can you describe the exact nature of the problem? Does the car rev high or low at stoplights? Tend to almost stall at stoplights? What? > Has anyone experienced this problem? The car is reving high once the lights, blower motor, or rear defroster is turned on. It will continue to rev high until those items are turned off. If I turn on the A/C and the lights it will rev even higher. It jumps from idle 750 to 2250 without the A/C with the A/C over 3000. It does not stall out at all. I changed the plugs, cap and rotor when I bought it. Thanks Possibly simply the oxygen sensor. But read through all the following. > The car is reving high once the lights, blower motor, or rear defroster is > turned on. It will continue to rev high until those items are turned off. > If I turn on the A/C and the lights it will rev even higher. It jumps from > idle 750 to 2250 without the A/C with the A/C over 3000. It does not stall > out at all. I changed the plugs, cap and rotor when I bought it. You know the idle is supposed to be higher for every single item you list being turned "on", right? Not trying to be a wise-guy/gal. Just wanted to clear this up. So among other things, the question is whether this idle is too high, and, sure, it sounds like it to me. For warm up, the manual indicates your 87 Civic is supposed to fast idle at 2300 to 3300 RPM. But should it be that high when you turn on accessories like those you list above? If this car landed in my lap, this is what I'd do: Did you use genuine Honda parts, or aftermarket parts for your recent maintenance? This is not trivial. Reports are that non-OEM will affect performance. People seem to notice this with just spark plugs! Also, what about the ignition wires? Old ignition wires frequently are the cause of rough running. Are yours OEM? Have you checked their resistance? Should be under about 15k ohms each. Tegger has listed some other checks you can do on the wires. He also discusses general rough running problems. The site is based on years of input and experience from this group and his own explorations. See http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#symptoms You should also thoroughly purge the cooling system of air, per the manual's precise directions. The cooling system cools certain engine control components. Air in the system can mess up signals from sensors to the ECU, messing up the idle signal. Next, the manual directs that troubleshooting of the carburetor is appropriate, especially the idle settings. www.autozone.com has a complete manual for your 87 Civic. There are two sections that explain how to adjust the idle speed, in the tuneup section and the fuel system section (under "carburetor," fast idle etc.) Lastly, the problem may very well, and very simply, be the oxygen sensor. Bad O2 sensors definitely can cause rough running and crazy idling. I assume the mileage is a bit sucky, too, right? Has the O2 sensor ever been replaced on this car? Genuine Honda oxygen sensors may be had extremely cheaply (around $40 for your car) at https://www.automedicsupply.com/ . I used them 18 months ago for my 91 Fuel injected Civic. Good service. The sensor works great. You can borrow, no charge, an O2 sensor wrench from Autozone. I don't know how people missed your first posts. Keep checking back. I am not a caburetor kinda person, so I may be missing something re the idle settings and adjustment. Updates welcome, to help others in the future. I did use the NGK spark plugs, the cap and rotor are GP Sorenson. I did not change the plug wires. I will check them though. The O2 sensor may or may not have been changed I will pick up a new one since i do not know. I did not realize that the idle would increase by turning on the accessories. The guy I bought the car from never experienced this. The car did sit in his backyard for over a year though. Thanks for the web site. I will head on over to the zone and pick up a manual. > I did use the NGK spark plugs, the cap and rotor are GP Sorenson. I did not > change the plug wires. I will check them though. > > The O2 sensor may or may not have been changed I will pick up a new one > since i do not know. 212k miles... if the O2 sensor is the original, this is a good investment. > I did not realize that the idle would increase by turning on the > accessories. The guy I bought the car from never experienced this. IIRC from some discussion here recently about this (reinforced by some comments in the manual), for my fuel injected 91 Civic, the computer does this to assist the alternator, now under higher load from the electrical accessories. When I turn on the headlights or defroster, say, I see increases of only around 250 rpm, though. So on my 91 Civic, it's quite noticeable, but not as stunning as the revving you're seeing. > The car > did sit in his backyard for over a year though. Hopefully that will draw other comments. The net has sites that talk about how to maintain a car after it's been sitting that long. Might want to google. > Thanks for the web site. I will head on over to the zone and pick up a > manual. I hope you noticed the manual is /free/ online. :-) > There are two sections that explain how to adjust the idle > speed, in the tuneup section and the fuel system section > (under "carburetor," fast idle etc.) does it still use a solenoid to boost the idle? could just need a little turning "down" with all the loads at work. Thanks I will check to see if that is the case. I did not see one but there are alot of vacum hoses around the carb. > Elle wrote: > > There are two sections that explain how to adjust the idle [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > does it still use a solenoid to boost the idle? could just need a little > turning "down" with all the loads at work. For fuel injected engines, my manual mentions an "A/C [as in air conditioning] idle control solenoid valve." I don't see anything similar for carbureted engines. For the carbureted 87, by way of what to put one's hands on during the two idle adjusment procedures and when using the troubleshooting chart, my manual lists: (1) a "throttle stop screw" (there's a drawing of where this is); (2) a "fast idle adjusting screw" (also shows a drawing of where this is); (3) a "stuck air bypass valve" (troubleshooting section). (4) a "stuck open throttle valve" [So try cleaning the carburetor?] Again, I'm not a carburetor person. I'm just copying from the manual here, trying to learn more. I defer to your hands on and book experience, Mike, of course. Okay, I located two vacuum leaks on the back of the carb, put new hoses on and readjusted the idle screw. That seems to have fixed the problem. I still need to change the O2 sensor. I lubricated all the linkages and springs. Once I drive to work and then back home I will see if I need to tweak it anymore. I do appreciate the help and web sites. > Again, I'm not a carburetor person. I'm just copying from > the manual here, trying to learn more. I defer to your hands > on and book experience, Mike, of course. i havent touched a carb in years. thank ghod for that! i just remember GM using a solenoid setup like that, tho id expect better from honda :) |
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