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Car Forum / Honda Cars / February 20062006 Accord Hybrid - getting less for more$?
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/honda_accord_hy.html Mileage goes down significantly for 2006 though emissions improve and price goes up. > http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/honda_accord_hy.html > > Mileage goes down significantly for 2006 though emissions improve and > price goes up. Honda put the sun roof from the EX Accord on as standard and put a mini-spare and jack in place of a can of Fix-a-Flat in the trunk. This added about 80 pounds to the weight of the car, moving it to a different EPA class and test. Per the EPA ESTIMATE the 2006 gets lower mileage than the 2005 ESTIMATE. In the real world, not EPA's statistical one, the 2006 will most likely get the same mileage as the 2005 model. The price increase (approx. $800) can also be attributed to the extra cost of the sun roof. Don't jump to conclusions.  SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA Just a minor correction.... the 2005 does not have a fix a flat can in the trunk. It has a small compressor, a jack, and a patch kit. Why they didn't put a mini spare there is beyond me. As for the EPA, they are not due to change mileage tests for several years. Why would the figures change? >> http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/honda_accord_hy.html >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Don't jump to conclusions. > Just a minor correction.... the 2005 does not have a fix a flat can in the > trunk. It has a small compressor, a jack, and a patch kit. Why they > didn't put a mini spare there is beyond me. Woops, but it was all for weight savings. The mini-spare and the sun roof add about 80 pounds. That was enough to push the car into anouther EPA class. > As for the EPA, they are not due to change mileage tests for several > years. Why would the figures change? True, but there are weight/size classes now and each class has a different mix of tests. The 2005 Accord Hybrid fit in one class and the addition of 80 pounds or so pushed the 2006 into a higher class with a different set of criteria. The new tests, if they are ever instituted, are supposed to be more realistic. The current tests have all sorts of fudge factors. In the real world, I doubt that there's much difference between the 2005 and the 2006. Being Hondas, after about 5,000 miles to break them in and proper maintenance, they'll probably beat the current EPA estimates. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > The new tests, if they are ever instituted, are supposed to be more > realistic. The current tests have all sorts of fudge factors. In the real > world, I doubt that there's much difference between the 2005 and the 2006. > Being Hondas, after about 5,000 miles to break them in and proper > maintenance, they'll probably beat the current EPA estimates. Yes, and my '93 Accord automatic is proof of that. EPA estimated 28mpg on the highway, and yet I consistently get 32-34mpg. > The price increase (approx. $800) can also be attributed to the extra cost > of the sun roof. quite easily! They also added stability control. But those lower epa mileage figures will bother some customers I am sure. They would me. >> The price increase (approx. $800) can also be attributed to the extra >> cost of the sun roof. > > quite easily! > http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/honda_accord_hy.html > > Mileage goes down significantly for 2006 though emissions improve and price > goes up. Those numbers are more realistic. It's interesting that the IMA system is less powerful now. I think it's time to stop calling the Accord a hybrid. The electric motor is all about stabilizing the engine during mode changes, and providing power to the electric A/C. Its effect on the drivetrain is almost nothing in such a heavy car. >snip > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the electric A/C. Its effect on the drivetrain is almost nothing in > such a heavy car. I agree. If the electric motor can't run the car by itself, it shouldn't be called a hybrid. Perhaps Honda engineers called it "assist" but Honda marketing insisted on the hybrid moniker? Toyota's 2007 Camry hybrid may be a more interesting model and 192 hp is more than adequate. Price and real-world mpg are still unknows. As evidence that the hybrid craze has abated, my local Toyota store (CARMAX) has 4 Prius in stock, two at $22,308 and two at $25,318. None priced higher. At about $22K the Prius is a pretty attractive deal for those who use the car in the city and want to send a one-fingered salute to the oil industry. The Prius works on the highway (my cousin consistently gets 50+ mpg) for those willing to keep the speed down (*everyone* passes my cousin). A big savings from the Accord is its ability to turn off the engine during stop and go traffic. If it requires the electric motor to do that (which I assume it does), calling it a hybrid is reasonable. I remember a decade or so ago, Volkswagon promised to produce a car that shut off its engine during stop and go driving. To my knowledge it never happened. >>snip >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > consistently gets 50+ mpg) for those willing to keep the speed down > (*everyone* passes my cousin). > A big savings from the Accord is its ability to turn off the engine during > stop and go traffic. If it requires the electric motor to do that (which I > assume it does), calling it a hybrid is reasonable. I remember a decade or > so ago, Volkswagon promised to produce a car that shut off its engine during > stop and go driving. To my knowledge it never happened. As far as I know, the engine does not shut down completely. Much like Crapsler's impostor Hemi engine, the Accord Hybrid's engine uses cylinder deactivation, shutting off half its cylinders. >> A big savings from the Accord is its ability to turn off the engine during >> stop and go traffic. If it requires the electric motor to do that (which I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Crapsler's impostor Hemi engine, the Accord Hybrid's engine uses cylinder >deactivation, shutting off half its cylinders. The gas engine really does shut down at a stop. Much like gas powered golf carts. Step on the accelerator and the engine starts. It's one of the reasons for the electric power steering and hybrid A/C system that switches to electric when stopped. Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) is what turns off three of the cylinders when not needed. Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) is what starts the engine when you press on the accelerator. Two different systems. > >> A big savings from the Accord is its ability to turn off the engine during > >> stop and go traffic. If it requires the electric motor to do that (which [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > of the reasons for the electric power steering and hybrid A/C system > that switches to electric when stopped. The A/C system only runs off the gas motor when it needs a lot of cooling. Normal dehumidification and light cooling is done using varying amounts of electric power. It's nice in that you don't get the rapid hot and cold cycles. You can hear its power supply rev the motor up and down on some AM radio frequencies. I've tried turning off the A/C for a while to see if it helped milage. It doesn't. The car just uses regenerative braking less. > Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) is what turns off three of the > cylinders when not needed. Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) is what > starts the engine when you press on the accelerator. Two different > systems. I wonder what happens to this car in 150K miles when the front cylinders are a little low on compression. What happens in 200K miles when it's a little prone to stalling? My HAH hardly idles smoothly now. >> >> A big savings from the Accord is its ability to turn off the engine >> >> during [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > are a little low on compression. What happens in 200K miles when it's a > little prone to stalling? My HAH hardly idles smoothly now. My Honda minivan has the same feature. The issue is not limited to the hybrid. >> A big savings from the Accord is its ability to turn off the engine >> during [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Crapsler's impostor Hemi engine, the Accord Hybrid's engine uses cylinder > deactivation, shutting off half its cylinders. Sorry but you are wrong. It has both features. >> As far as I know, the engine does not shut down completely. Much like >> Crapsler's impostor Hemi engine, the Accord Hybrid's engine uses cylinder >> deactivation, shutting off half its cylinders. > > Sorry but you are wrong. It has both features. After reading Dick's post, I stand corrected. It would be interesting to know how well the Accord hybrid would do if they had one with the 4 cylinder. The new 2006 Civic does quite well though not quite as good as a Prius but at least it is a car worth having. We test drove the Prius several times and it is annoying as hell in many respects. >>snip >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > consistently gets 50+ mpg) for those willing to keep the speed down > (*everyone* passes my cousin). >> http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/honda_accord_hy.html >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the electric A/C. Its effect on the drivetrain is almost nothing in > such a heavy car. i dont think it meets the requirements to be able to ride solo in california carpool lanes, either. >>> http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/honda_accord_hy.html >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > i dont think it meets the requirements to be able to ride solo in > california carpool lanes, either. I can understand why the Accord Hybrid doesn't get to use the Holy Carpool Lanes, but how about the Civic Hybrid? Does the Prius get to use the holy ground because it's better or just because it looks odd while the Civic Hybrid looks like every other Civic? In other words, BFD. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA |
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