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Car Forum / Honda Cars / February 20062002 Accord Oil consumption
My 2002 Accord SE 4cyl is using up 1L oil every 3000Km. The Honda dealer says that is normal. My previous cars never uses that much oil, and I never had to top up oil between changes of 8000Km. Any input.  SignatureLater 'gator NOSPAMddlee10@hotmail.com remove NOSPAM for email > My 2002 Accord SE 4cyl is using up 1L oil every 3000Km. The Honda > dealer says that is normal. My previous cars never uses that much > oil, and I never had to top up oil between changes of 8000Km. Any > input. Are you sure that's your actual consumption? That's terribly low for your year, unless you've been neglecting your oil changes. Measure it this way: 1) With car COLD, having sat overnight, without starting it, pull dipstick and make note of the reading. 2) Drive car 1,000 miles (or 2,000km, or some other set distance). 3) Repeat from #1. Distance between the marks is 1L, or 1 US qt plus one ounce. Car must be in exactly the same position AND on the same slope for both measurements. Do NOT check your oil at the gas station. Do NOT check it warm one time then cold the other. Consistency is important. I'll bet you're using quite a lot less than you think you are. If you are in fact using oil that quickly, inspect the PCV system, especially the breather pipe and the throttle body. It goes without saying, of course, that you'd also inspect for external leaks... SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>My 2002 Accord SE 4cyl is using up 1L oil every 3000Km. The Honda >>dealer says that is normal. My previous cars never uses that much [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > It goes without saying, of course, that you'd also inspect for external > leaks... oil quality is important too. <snip> >> It goes without saying, of course, that you'd also inspect for >> external leaks... >> > oil quality is important too. Well sure. You buy Goat Brand from China and all bets are off. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ I have been following this very closely. There were no smoke, fumes, or leaks. I use 5W20 and change oil at the dealer as scheduled. The car runs well otherwise. Where is the PCV and what should I check? SignatureNOSPAMddlee10@hotmail.com remove NOSPAM for email address > >> My 2002 Accord SE 4cyl is using up 1L oil every 3000Km. The Honda [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > It goes without saying, of course, that you'd also inspect for external > leaks... > I have been following this very closely. There were no smoke, fumes, or > leaks. I use 5W20 and change oil at the dealer as scheduled. The car runs > well otherwise. Where is the PCV and what should I check? ----------------------------------- The PCV can be quickly found at google.com. If you stick PDF in the search, you might get a nice picture. It's a valve that regulates how much air is drawn out of the crankcase, to be burned in the engine. If it sticks open, is sucks your oil vapor out (invisibly) and burns it wholesale. It can wreck your catalytic converter, mess up your fuel consumption, and your idle. Use Honda parts. Cheap investment for something so important. 'Curly' Thanks, found the testing method from the Helm manual. Will check it next. BTW, what is an acceptable oil consumption rate. SignatureLater 'gator NOSPAMddlee10@hotmail.com remove NOSPAM for email > > > > I have been following this very closely. There were no smoke, fumes, or [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > 'Curly' > Thanks, found the testing method from the Helm manual. Will check it > next. BTW, what is an acceptable oil consumption rate. What's your odometer reading? Assuming average driving of 15K per year, you're up to about 60K. Oil consumption at that point ought to be approx 8K miles per quart. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ I have brought this to the attention of the Honda dealer several times, but they just shrugged it off as normal. What should one do? The car is still under warranty. I certainly don't want to pay the dealer to test compression just for them to say "it is within normal limits and thank you". Perhaps move to thicker oil like 10W30? The car only has 76k Km only. SignatureLater 'gator NOSPAMddlee10@hotmail.com remove NOSPAM for email > > > Thanks, found the testing method from the Helm manual. Will check it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you're up to about 60K. Oil consumption at that point ought to be approx 8K > miles per quart. What is all this about normal oil consumption on an 02? come on. If its gonna be low on oil before a change is due, I think there is something severely wrong, especially with a car that has less than 100k on the odo. I have a 98 civic with 242000kms, no noticeable oil consumption. And I drive the piss out of it. The only time it ever pushed any oil was a run between OK city and Albequerque. Avg speed was 185 kph. Lost a liter. My fiance has an 87 Prelude with 215000kms on it, she doesn't lose a drop between changes either. If I had an 02 with less than 100k on the clock and it used over a liter between changes, I would be pissed. My uncle had the engine in his 99 CRV replaced due to porosity of the block... . t >I have brought this to the attention of the Honda dealer several times, but >they just shrugged it off as normal. What should one do? The car is still [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> you're up to about 60K. Oil consumption at that point ought to be approx 8K >> miles per quart. > What is all this about normal oil consumption on an 02? come on. If its > gonna be low on oil before a change is due, I think there is something [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > If I had an 02 with less than 100k on the clock and it used over a liter > between changes, I would be pissed. i generally agree. the good condition honda motor's i've had don't burn a drop, but unfortunately, manufacturer spec is that it's ok up to 1 liter per 1,000 miles, so making a warranty issue out of this is real hard. your only chance is if you have a /real/ good relationship with the dealer. > My uncle had the engine in his 99 CRV replaced due to porosity of the block... > . [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>>you're up to about 60K. Oil consumption at that point ought to be approx 8K >>>miles per quart. > What is all this about normal oil consumption on an 02? come on. If its > gonna be low on oil before a change is due, I think there is something > severely wrong, especially with a car that has less than 100k on the odo. i wouldnt say "severely". id say most of us are just spoiled by our hondas. > I have brought this to the attention of the Honda dealer several > times, but they just shrugged it off as normal. What should one do? > The car is still under warranty. I certainly don't want to pay the > dealer to test compression Compression is a function of the compression rings. Oil control is a function of the oil control rings. You can't use a compression test to check for oil control. > just for them to say "it is within normal > limits and thank you". Perhaps move to thicker oil like 10W30? The > car only has 76k Km only. 10W-30 is not "thicker" except when stone cold. At operating temperature it is the same as 5W-30. Do not use "thicker" oil to cover up an engine problem. Four questions: 1) Do you know the car's history without any doubt? 2) Has the oil been changed according to the severe schedule in the owner's manual? 3) Have you checked the throttle body and intake tube to see if there's oil in them? (That's the PCV test) 4) Have you checked your oil consumption the way I outlined in my first message? If you have actually addressed all four issues and have definitely found a problem, then you have a bit of an issue here. Automakers will not consider anything better than 1,000 miles per quart to be worth dealing with. If, and ONLY if, you have actualy uncovered an actual oil consumption problem, and ONLY if it's NOT due to neglect, you may try CAMVAP. www.camvap.ca SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>I have brought this to the attention of the Honda dealer several >>times, but they just shrugged it off as normal. What should one do? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > function of the oil control rings. You can't use a compression test to > check for oil control. kinda, but the two go hand in hand so often, you won't ever win a dime betting on it. >>just for them to say "it is within normal >>limits and thank you". Perhaps move to thicker oil like 10W30? The [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > problem, and ONLY if it's NOT due to neglect, you may try CAMVAP. > www.camvap.ca >>>I have brought this to the attention of the Honda dealer several >>>times, but they just shrugged it off as normal. What should one do? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > kinda, but the two go hand in hand so often, you won't ever win a dime > betting on it. OP hasn't even checked his throttle body for oil yet, by the looks of this thread. It's not even certain he's even checking his oil properly. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Checking oil is no rocket science. You either have noticeable oil loss or not. SignatureLater 'gator NOSPAMddlee10@hotmail.com remove NOSPAM for email > > >>>I have brought this to the attention of the Honda dealer several [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > It's not even certain he's even checking his oil properly. > Checking oil is no rocket science. You either have noticeable oil > loss or not. It does depend on how and when you check. And have you checked the throttle body yet? That's not rocket science either. There are only a few places your oil could possibly go. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ With no visible leaks and blue smokes, leaky valve guide seals come to mind. Had that problem with my 78 Civic. Difficult to check on that though. I suppose I can just change the PCV valve just in case it is defective and sucking out oil fumes excessively but not stuck open. Just checked the throttle body and it is pristine. SignatureLater 'gator NOSPAMddlee10@hotmail.com remove NOSPAM for email > > > Checking oil is no rocket science. You either have noticeable oil [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And have you checked the throttle body yet? That's not rocket science > either. There are only a few places your oil could possibly go. > With no visible leaks and blue smokes, leaky valve guide seals come to > mind. Leaky valve seals will manifest themselves as a puff of blue smoke on startup from cold. Valve seal leakage is typical of a car that has been neglected. Any oil smoke presnt in the exhaust will be consumed by the cat until your consumption approaches 200-300 miles per quart. > Had that problem with my 78 Civic. Difficult to check on that > though. See above. > I suppose I can just change the PCV valve just in case it is > defective and sucking out oil fumes excessively but not stuck open. That's not where the oil would enter. It would be the crankcase breather. And in that case it would be visible in the air pipe and the throttle body. > Just checked the throttle body and it is pristine. If no oil in the throttle body, then either it has recently been cleaned or you have neither excessive blowby nor a plugged PCV valve. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ I owned this car brand new. The oil consumption came quite early say within 1-2 years after the purchase. Oil changes as I mentioned, always according to schedule at the dealer. The car has been driven very responsibly by myself and my wife. The throttle body has not been checked, but the PCV checked according to Helm to be functioning. The oil consumption is quite obvious, so no need to calibrate to the exact miles per drop of oil. SignatureLater 'gator NOSPAMddlee10@hotmail.com remove NOSPAM for email > > > I have brought this to the attention of the Honda dealer several [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > problem, and ONLY if it's NOT due to neglect, you may try CAMVAP. > www.camvap.ca >I owned this car brand new. The oil consumption came quite early say within >1-2 years after the purchase. Oil changes as I mentioned, always according >to schedule at the dealer. The car has been driven very responsibly by >myself and my wife. The throttle body has not been checked, but the PCV >checked according to Helm to be functioning. The oil consumption is quite >obvious, so no need to calibrate to the exact miles per drop of oil. My personal guideline is: Over 3000 mi./qt = completely normal 2000 - 3000 mi/qt = a little high, but no cause for concern 1000 - 2000 mi/qt = excessive, but not unreasonable 500 - 1000 mi/qt = problem needs attention Less than 500 mi/qt = fix it or junk it now My '94 GS-R was in the 2500 range when I got it with 45K on it. I change the oil and OEM filter twice a year with Mobil 1 5W-30. About 5000 - 9000 mi. per change. All other service by the book except valve adjustments about half as often as recommended. I drive it very hard. Never had any mechanical problems with the engine and it still hits the 8300 rpm rev limiter if you aren't careful.. Oil consumption has increased to about 1700 mi/qt. Current milage is 144K. I think hard driving and dirty oil tend to increase consumption. This oil consumption rate is not of concern to me. Now if I had a gently driven, two-year-old Accord and it burned 2000mi/qt I would be unhappy. If it was 1500mi/qt I would be insistent on some compensation. The problem is that Honda (like most manufacturers AFAIK) consider 1000mi/qt. as the acceptable limit. It is acceptable from a purely mechanical point of view (i.e. too soon to overhaul the engine) but not acceptable on a car which is almost out of warranty. This isn't a common complaint on a new Honda and you have to get them to admit that your car is not normal even if it is *only* burning 1200 mi/qt. > I have brought this to the attention of the Honda dealer several times, but > they just shrugged it off as normal. What should one do? The car is still > under warranty. I certainly don't want to pay the dealer to test > compression just for them to say "it is within normal limits and thank you". > Perhaps move to thicker oil like 10W30? The car only has 76k Km only. up to a quart/1000 miles is considered normal, by VW :) i forget how much youre burning. if you arent trying synthetic, try that first, but a 10w30 shouldnt harm anything. seems a bit too early for that though. can have a compression test done too Signaturextreme barton http://www.automotiveforums.com take it to a differetn dealer and have them check it .. then go back with the results and slap em in da face with it .. if its under warranty you better get off your a.s and do something about it before its not anymore.. your call... Signaturextreme barton http://www.automotiveforums.com |
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