Car Forum / Honda Cars / February 2006
95 Accord Front Suspension Help
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BigELilE05@msn.com - 15 Feb 2006 22:42 GMT Putting on new brake pads today and noticed on the drivers side that the (whatever you call it, tie-rod?) had a busted boot and the grease knuckles rubber was also busted.
This is the link that actually turns the left front wheel. Sorry I'm don't have a clue what parts are called on front wheel drives. If we were talking RWD it would be a tie-rod.
Anyway, can just the boot and the grease fitting rubber be replaced or do I have to replace the entire link. I'm assuming I can replace the boot on the inner part of the link but the outer part with the grease fitting will have to be replaced?
Is this a do-it-yourself-er or do I need to take to someone?
I have a "fork" to break the outer joint loose but w/o further inspection I couldn't really tell about the inner part. Looks like it connected directly to the steering shaft.
Dufus Systems - 16 Feb 2006 01:24 GMT BigELilE05@msn.com wrote in news:1140043372.164043.220560 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> Putting on new brake pads today and noticed on the drivers side that > the (whatever you call it, tie-rod?) had a busted boot and the grease [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > inspection I couldn't really tell about the inner part. Looks like it > connected directly to the steering shaft. Sounds like a tie rod. Directly connects the rack to the little arm on the spindle. The boot's part of the steering rack (if you're talking about the boot that covers the thing connected to the tie rod). On the civic, replacing the boot's pretty easy because, you just disconnect the steering wheel joint (under the dash) , unbolt some bolts and the rack will drop down to the limits of the PS lines. Then you use pliers on the Band-it style clamps, take off the boot and replace (tie rod's got to come off first of course). You can of course take the rack out but, the PS lines are a major pain in the a.s. Worst job I EVER did on a honda.
Hmm come to thing of it, If I did it over again, I think I'd disconnect from the pump and just feed the lines out the bottom so I could get at them easier.
The tie rod just unscrews from the rack so, it's even easier to replace. Make sure you measure the threads to get the new one on pretty close so, you can drive it to a shop for an alignment. As soon as you disconnect the tie rod, it's new alignment time.
While Honda wants nearly a grand for a rack, online junk yards sell them for nearly nothing. I have a couple civic ones in my shed.
Majestic honda is the place to order part. My dealer charges 30% over MSRP for parts. Majestic charges 30% UNDER MSRP for parts. They have parts blowups too so, you can actually see the parts you're ordering.
'Curly Q. Links' - 16 Feb 2006 05:31 GMT > Putting on new brake pads today and noticed on the drivers side that > the (whatever you call it, tie-rod?) had a busted boot and the grease [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > inspection I couldn't really tell about the inner part. Looks like it > connected directly to the steering shaft. ------------------------------
It sounds like you might be describing a CV-Joint?? Pick up a Chilton's manual and have a look at www.tegger.com as well for special tools you'll need if you do it yourself.. I like the Chilton's for the Odyssey, and your Accord is very similar, so you should like the Accord manual.
'Curly'
Dufus Systems - 16 Feb 2006 06:17 GMT "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in news:43F40E1B.E06A9933 @interbaun.com:
>> I have a "fork" to break the outer joint loose but w/o further >> inspection I couldn't really tell about the inner part. Looks like it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > 'Curly' I guess it could be interpreted either way. I just put new CV joint boots on my axels. Made the mistake is getting them local because I was in a hurry. After the fact, I looked them up on Majestic and it turned out OEM boot kits were cheaper and probably better then the ones I ended up with Dooh!
I hate the generic clamps that come with the boots. Anyone know where I can buy "Band-it" style clamps? They looks like large stainless steel cable ties.
I've used a Chiltons before but, for the money ($60-70) I'd really recommend the Helmes manual. I have it in both paper and electronic forms for my cars and it can't be beat. I had to splice two wiring harnesses together the other day. Civic and Integra. Couldn't have done it without both manuals (and honda's incredible engineering work).
'Curly Q. Links' - 16 Feb 2006 17:13 GMT > I've used a Chiltons before but, for the money ($60-70) I'd really > recommend the Helmes manual. I have it in both paper and electronic forms > for my cars and it can't be beat. I had to splice two wiring harnesses > together the other day. Civic and Integra. Couldn't have done it without > both manuals (and honda's incredible engineering work). ------------------------------
I figured he was probably in a hurry, and most (even small) towns have a supplier that has a Chilton's in stock. I like the fact that the Chilton's assumes you're not a trained mechanic, and tells you the 'exceptions to the rules', so you can work around the fact that you don't have a wall full of OEM Honda specialized tools. I own the Helms manuals too, (including the electrical one) don't get me wrong.
Here's a link to a tegger.com page that shows a special crankshaft holding tool I built with a little help from the Chilton book.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/crankbolthextool.html
For the Canadians, a similar tool is now available at Canadian Tire $34.99 CAN, made by Powerbuilt. I expect Powerbuilt may be available in USA also . . . .
'Curly'
BigELilE05@msn.com - 16 Feb 2006 14:01 GMT > > Putting on new brake pads today and noticed on the drivers side that > > the (whatever you call it, tie-rod?) had a busted boot and the grease [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > 'Curly' It's not the CV joints, it's the tie-rod and tie-rod end on the drivers side. I looked at teggers site and it doesn't go into the tie-rod.
I know I can get the outter one loose and replaced, I'm just not sure about the inner part. If I gotta buy some special tools and it's a big PIA, I will just have to take it to someone, but I would rather do it myself.
Dufus Systems - 16 Feb 2006 14:12 GMT BigELilE05@msn.com wrote in news:1140095094.731514.21250 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
'Curly'
> It's not the CV joints, it's the tie-rod and tie-rod end on the drivers > side. I looked at teggers site and it doesn't go into the tie-rod. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > PIA, I will just have to take it to someone, but I would rather do it > myself. If you're just replacing the tie rod end, then it simply unscrews from the shaft and you screw on a new on. If you're going farther up to the rack and want to replace the boot too, then you might need a tool for the boot though, I was able to get them on and off without a tool. Boot replacement becomes a clearance issue. Can you get in there to work?
BigELilE05@msn.com - 16 Feb 2006 17:05 GMT > BigELilE05@msn.com wrote in news:1140095094.731514.21250 > @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > though, I was able to get them on and off without a tool. Boot replacement > becomes a clearance issue. Can you get in there to work? I haven't looked at it that close yet to see if I can get to the inner part of the boot to remove it. I needed to get the brakes on the car yesterday and back on the road. I assuming you need a tool for the metal clamp that holds the boot in place?
TeGGeR® - 16 Feb 2006 18:43 GMT > BigELilE05@msn.com wrote in news:1140095094.731514.21250 > @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If you're just replacing the tie rod end, then it simply unscrews from > the shaft "Simply"...*IF* you don't live in the Rust Belt...
 Signature TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
BigELilE05@msn.com - 17 Feb 2006 00:46 GMT > > BigELilE05@msn.com wrote in news:1140095094.731514.21250 > > @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > "Simply"...*IF* you don't live in the Rust Belt... Florida.
Do I need a special tool to remove and replace the metal clamp on the boot?
> -- > TeGGeR® > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Nick - 17 Feb 2006 13:25 GMT I haven't looked at my Accord but I think there should only be one boot on the tie-rod per side. I recently replaced them on my Integra and used a large standard screwdriver just to get enough space to put my cutters in to cut it out. That was just for the inside one, on the outside, it should be a spring which you can expand to get it off (pliers or spring pullers). You will need a special puller to get the tie-rod end out of the hub so you don't damage the tie-rod ball joint (tegger has a picture of one on his site). Once you get the tie-rod off of the hub, you'll need to mark off where the tie-rod is so that when you put it back on, you don't sway too far from where it was as this will throw your alignment off. After the tie-rod is off, you should be able to remove the boot and replace it. You do need a special tool to get the new inside clamp back on; rather than doing this, I just used outdoor twist ties that lock in place. They are holding up as good as the metal ones that were on there before.
Good Luck, Nick
>> > BigELilE05@msn.com wrote in news:1140095094.731514.21250 >> > @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ >> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Ron - 17 Feb 2006 14:58 GMT Nick wrote: <<I haven't looked at my Accord but I think there should only be one boot on the tie-rod per side. I recently replaced them on my Integra and used a large standard screwdriver just to get enough space to put my cutters in to cut it out. That was just for the inside one, on the outside, it should be a spring which you can expand to get it off (pliers or spring pullers). You will need a special puller to get the tie-rod end out of the hub so you don't damage the tie-rod ball joint (tegger has a picture of one on his site). Once you get the tie-rod off of the hub, you'll need to mark off where the tie-rod is so that when you put it back on, you don't sway too far from where it was as this will throw your alignment off. After the tie-rod is off, you should be able to remove the boot and replace it. You do need a special tool to get the new inside clamp back on; rather than doing this, I just used outdoor twist ties that lock in place. They are holding up as good as the metal ones that were on there before.>>
Thanks Nick.
As I wrote in my first post, the outer tie-rods grease boot (or whatever you call it) is also busted so I have to replace the outer tie-rod since you can't just replace the rubber.
I have a "fork" that I haven't used in yrs that I can use to remove it from the hub. So damaging the rubber part isn't an issue.
I was thinking about using one of those thick, wide, nylon tie wraps instead of going back with the metal clamp on the boot. (since you need a special tool)
Those things are probably stronger than the metal anyway. LOL
BigELilE05@msn.com - 17 Feb 2006 22:05 GMT > <<I haven't looked at my Accord but I think there should only be one > boot on the tie-rod per side. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Those things are probably stronger than the metal anyway. LOL OK, I have my new parts and have the car apart ( only 15 minutes) and I'm ready to put it back together, 3 questions.
1) The threaded part of the tie-rod, the part that is attached to the rack and rotates, do I need to pack that joint/knuckle with grease and if so what kind? Wheel bearing grease perhaps?
2) Do I need to put any grease on ANY parts before installing the new boot?
3) What is the purpose of the small hose that attaches to the boot?
jim beam - 18 Feb 2006 03:34 GMT >><<I haven't looked at my Accord but I think there should only be one >>boot on the tie-rod per side. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > rack and rotates, do I need to pack that joint/knuckle with grease and > if so what kind? Wheel bearing grease perhaps? think it's a silicone grease. get the helm manual and check. honda uses silicone greases on the power steering system, and i suspect oil too, and ordinary greases/oils ruin the seals.
> 2) Do I need to put any grease on ANY parts before installing the new > boot? you can usually replace just the boot if it's not too dirty in there. make sure it's clean before reassembly.
> 3) What is the purpose of the small hose that attaches to the boot? balance air pressure between sides - as one bellows compresses, the other expands. a closed system keeps contaminants out and significantly increases life of the seals.
BigELilE05@msn.com - 18 Feb 2006 04:37 GMT Jim Beam wrote:
> OK, I have my new parts and have the car apart ( only 15 minutes) and > I'm ready to put it back together, 3 questions.
> 1) The threaded part of the tie-rod, the part that is attached to the > rack and rotates, do I need to pack that joint/knuckle with grease and > if so what kind? Wheel bearing grease perhaps? think it's a silicone grease. get the helm manual and check. honda uses silicone greases on the power steering system, and i suspect oil too, and ordinary greases/oils ruin the seals.
> 2) Do I need to put any grease on ANY parts before installing the new > boot? you can usually replace just the boot if it's not too dirty in there. make sure it's clean before reassembly.
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I guess that should have been 1 question. Do I need to pack that knuckle that connects the outer and inner tie rod with grease?
There is NO dirt in there.
I don't know how long the boot has been split, so I need to know if the knuckle joint is supposed to be "packed" with grease the way the CV joints are.
jim beam - 18 Feb 2006 06:06 GMT > Jim Beam wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I guess that should have been 1 question. Do I need to pack that > knuckle that connects the outer and inner tie rod with grease? you mean inside the bellows? no, that stays dry. the joint it protects is sealed for life and pre-lubed.
> There is NO dirt in there. > > I don't know how long the boot has been split, so I need to know if the > knuckle joint is supposed to be "packed" with grease the way the CV > joints are. no.
jim beam - 18 Feb 2006 03:30 GMT > Nick wrote: > <<I haven't looked at my Accord but I think there should only be one [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > you call it) is also busted so I have to replace the outer tie-rod since > you can't just replace the rubber. yes you can replace just the rubber! use a little ingenuity.
> I have a "fork" that I haven't used in yrs that I can use to remove it > from the hub. So damaging the rubber part isn't an issue. dude, get the proper tool. check out tegger's faq's for pics and rough prices. forks are destructive and not very safe.
> I was thinking about using one of those thick, wide, nylon tie wraps > instead of going back with the metal clamp on the boot. (since you need > a special tool) can't take heat. use two loops of thick copper wire and twist the ends.
> Those things are probably stronger than the metal anyway. LOL BigELilE05@msn.com - 19 Feb 2006 18:15 GMT Thanks for everyones help. Got the parts and did the whole job in less than an hour.
The hardest part of the job was getting that little clamp and hose back on the boot!
They sure as hell don't give you much hose to work with with there.
Nick - 20 Feb 2006 14:30 GMT Agreed on that :). That's why I also chose to use the plastic ties instead of getting the metal ones. I hear that some manufactures are starting to use those as well. Obviously car manufactures want it to be proprietary since they can charge $6 on a piece of metal that costs 50 cents to make vs. a plastic tie which cots 10 cents. Good to hear that you fixed everything.
Nick
>Thanks for everyones help. Got the parts and did the whole job in less >than an hour. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >They sure as hell don't give you much hose to work with with there.
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