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Car Forum / Honda Cars / February 2006A moment of ranting
So Honda finally fixed the 2005 Accord Hybrid's flashing engine light and the neck-snapping lurch at start. I have replaced the toy stereo system with a simple and clean sounding one. I have given up hope of averaging more than 25 MPH in my expensive hybrid. I've learned to downshift manually when need acceleration with better than a two second response time. I finally have a car I can live with, right? No. Today I'm changing the oil and decide to rotate the tires while I have the jack out. The lug nuts on the driver's side rear wheel are unusually loose but it looks OK. I do the 15K mile inspections and notice unprotected ABS wiring near the wheels. When it comes time to put the wheel on, the bolts feel very soft on the wheel that was a little slack. I could make over a full turn after the initial resistance. I take the wheel off and make sure there's no crud in there. It's clean. I put the wheel back on and it's still very soft. One bolt goes two revolutions after resisting, which really can't be good. I begin to remove the tire again and a bolt snaps off! Damn! Now I have to convince a dealership that I was in fact using nothing but the included tire iron and my bare hands, and I wasn't trying to torque the crap out of the bolts. I'm sure they'll tell me that the unprotected wiring is normal too. I really regret selling my 97 Civic HX and purchasing a HAH. That's the end of my rant, at least until a rock or a bit of road debris smashes the ABS wiring. You're story illustrates a good but overlooked point in this guy's tired old spongy gray matter. New is not necessarily better. The hybrid in its present form is hardly better than the Civics of the early 1980's where some models got 40 mpg (city) and 50+ mph (highway). They were simpler, cheaper, and just as long lasting as today's offerings. And they were strictly gas burners. Hybrids won't come into their own until battery technology advances to efficient plug in charging to supplement the internal combustion engine. I hope that you take your dealer to task for the lug nuts/bolts. With regard to mileage... You're simply a victim to the politically correct mantra that often can be compared to the biggest lie of all.. Good Luck! JT > So Honda finally fixed the 2005 Accord Hybrid's flashing engine light > and the neck-snapping lurch at start. I have replaced the toy stereo [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > That's the end of my rant, at least until a rock or a bit of road debris > smashes the ABS wiring. > The hybrid in its present form is hardly better than the Civics of the > early 1980's where some models got 40 mpg (city) and 50+ mph (highway). > They were simpler, cheaper, and just as long lasting as today's > offerings. And they were strictly gas burners. You omit that the Civics of the early '80s were not anywhere near as safe as the current crop of Civics. Nor were they as roomy or comfortable or powerful. Wikipedia has this to say about the old engine: "The EM displaced 1.5 L (1487 cc) and was an SOHC 8-valve CVCC engine. Early versions produced 52 hp (39 kW) @ 5000 rpm and 68 ft.lbf (92 Nm) @ 3000 rpm, while later ones upped the output to 63 hp (47 kW) @ 5000 rpm and 77 ft.lbf (104 Nm) @ 3000rpm. All used a 3 barrel carburetor. * EM1 o 1980 Honda Civic, 52 hp (39 kW) o 1981-1983 Honda Civic, 63 hp (47 kW)" The 2006 gas 1.8 L produces 140 HP and delivers 30/38 mpg in a vastly superior car. The 1.3 L hybrid produces 110 HP and delivers 50/50 in the same vastly superior car. Hardly better? The engines were simplier and cheaper, I'll grant you that. > Hybrids won't come into their own until battery technology advances to > efficient plug in charging to supplement the internal combustion engine. Some EEs have modified their Priuses to do this. Voids the warranty, of course. http://calcars.org/priusplus.html Saw some numbers that say recharging at residential, off-peak rates is the equivalent of less than $0.50/gallon. Perhaps your wish will be granted in a few years. But I suspect the big energy corporations are doing all they can to prevent this and instead impose some more expensive alternative. >> The hybrid in its present form is hardly better than the Civics of >> the early 1980's where some models got 40 mpg (city) and 50+ mph [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Hardly better? The engines were simplier and cheaper, I'll grant you > that. I'll give you that the new cars are safer than the old ones. The new ones though weigh 5-800lbs more than the old ones so they NEED large engines to motivate them. Original poster wasn't looking back to the '80's. He's saying his '97 HX was better than the hybrid and I totally agree with him on that. Easier to maintain, the same or better mileage. Perhaps not quite as safe but, it has driver and passenger airbags and the upgraded side impact protection required on all newer cars. The suspension on all civics newer than 2001 is inferior to that of the older civics. Honda cut costs by switching to struts but, that didn't make the suspension better. In the middle years, 2001-2005 Honda had lost it's way. It was a company run by bean counters. With the new Civic and Civic SI, I hope they're going back to their roots. > Original poster wasn't looking back to the '80's. Yeah, but I was replying to Grumpy. The OP is correct. snip The suspension on all civics > newer than 2001 is inferior to that of the older civics. Honda cut costs > by switching to struts but, that didn't make the suspension better. Struts don't necessarily make a suspension worse (eg BMW, Porsche) but I agree that Honda's previous Civics weren't fun to drive. > In the middle years, 2001-2005 Honda had lost it's way. It was a company > run by bean counters. With the new Civic and Civic SI, I hope they're > going back to their roots. I think Honda cars have suffered so Honda could invest in light trucks. I agree that the new Civic line is excellent. Probably the best value Honda/Acura offers although low-end Accords also offer excellent value, IMHO. dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote in news:1140806342.518140.79040 @i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > I think Honda cars have suffered so Honda could invest in light trucks. > I agree that the new Civic line is excellent. Probably the best value > Honda/Acura offers although low-end Accords also offer excellent value, > IMHO. I agree with you on the truck thing. The problem with Honda is their trucks just aren't that great. My wife has an MDX and sure, it's fine on trips but, it's a soulless vehicle which, I would never buy again now that I've owned one. The handling is squirly. The ride mediocre at best. My F150 and the previous Expedition's I've owned were altogether better at being an SUV than the MDX is. The AWD system on my last Expedition was superior to that in the MDX. Supposedly the MDX is AWD but, I have yet to notice any torque transfer to the back. In slick conditions it just pushes badly (understeers). I've looked long and hard at the Ridgeline too. I've been conditioned by my Civic to look kindly on Honda's. It's ugly and as a truck, it's a failure. The one thing I need in a truck is a big bed. The Ridgeline bed is tiny. It's overpriced for what you get too. Probably explains why the local Honda dealer can't give them away. > I agree with you on the truck thing. The problem with Honda is their trucks > just aren't that great. Turn them over and you'll see an Odyssey minivan. > It's overpriced for what you get too. Probably explains why the local Honda > dealer can't give them away. Blasphemy! Can you believe that POS won truck of the year? Can you believe that Honda let the NSX, Prelude, S2000, CRX, etc. languish or die so they could build it? Hey, what do you know? Another moment of ranting! > dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote in news:1140806342.518140.79040 > @i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > It's overpriced for what you get too. Probably explains why the local Honda > dealer can't give them away. If you cannot lay a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the bed, it ain't a worthwhile truck... JT On 2/24/06 11:59 AM, in article Xns977483FD6C219peonsomecompanycomin@127.0.0.1, "Dufus Systems" <peon@somecompany.com.invalid> wrote: >>> The hybrid in its present form is hardly better than the Civics of >>> the early 1980's where some models got 40 mpg (city) and 50+ mph [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > run by bean counters. With the new Civic and Civic SI, I hope they're > going back to their roots. Back to their roots? That would be motorcycles and CVCC cars. > Back to their roots? That would be motorcycles and CVCC cars. That's back to infancy. They've had cars here in the states for what, 30-35 years now? The 90's were the golden years for Honda. The NSX, the Integra- R, various hatches the B16 and B18 motors. Car's made by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. All the enthusiasts have left for other brands. Now with the Civic SI they might be coming back a little. It's a hot car. Before you tell me about the S2000, yes it's a nice car. It's also $35K US. Priced out of range of the average joe. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Before you tell me about the S2000, yes it's a nice car. It's also $35K US. > Priced out of range of the average joe. but considering that it spanks many $60k+ cars handsomely in performance, it's not such a bad deal! > but considering that it spanks many $60k+ cars handsomely in > performance, it's not such a bad deal! Local honda dealer says that this is the last year for the S2000. Any truth to that? >>but considering that it spanks many $60k+ cars handsomely in >>performance, it's not such a bad deal! > > Local honda dealer says that this is the last year for the S2000. Any truth > to that? i expect so. production of all engines of that type is being dropped. > In the middle years, 2001-2005 Honda had lost it's way. It was a company > run by bean counters. With the new Civic and Civic SI, I hope they're > going back to their roots. itll take the jazz for that to happen. better yet? a hybrid jazz! honda was way ahead of the game when they introduced the wagovan in the mid-late 80s. sad, because when i see one, i know an updated, Si version of that might be a big seller today. >> In the middle years, 2001-2005 Honda had lost it's way. It was a company >> run by bean counters. With the new Civic and Civic SI, I hope they're [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > mid-late 80s. sad, because when i see one, i know an updated, Si version > of that might be a big seller today. Well, you can keep the hybrids. Extra weight, extra cost, extra complexity, marginal if that fuel economy improvements. You know the fuel economy improvements they do give won't cover the additional cost of being a hybrid right? So, you spend as much more for being a hybrid as the fuel would cost not driving a hybrid. Honda gas motors on the new cars are already ULEV (Ultra low emissions). So, I question whether you're even reducing emissions by that much. >>> In the middle years, 2001-2005 Honda had lost it's way. It was a company >>> run by bean counters. With the new Civic and Civic SI, I hope they're [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > marginal if that fuel economy improvements. You know the fuel economy > improvements they do give won't cover the additional cost of being a hybrid thats not the big thing, either. being able to use the oft-empty carpool lane while solo is the big draw for some people. the additional cost is negated by the $3000 tax break. > right? So, you spend as much more for being a hybrid as the fuel would > cost not driving a hybrid. Honda gas motors on the new cars are already > ULEV (Ultra low emissions). So, I question whether you're even reducing > emissions by that much. you arent. but buy buying the cars an making them attractive through tax breaks and carpool lane privileges, it gives the automakers (at least the SMART ones) incentive to keep doing R&D. if they hadnt caught on like they have, where would we be? still talking crazy sh.t about fuel cells, etc. hybrids arent going away, and they just keep getting better. > > The hybrid in its present form is hardly better than the Civics of the > > early 1980's where some models got 40 mpg (city) and 50+ mph (highway). [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > doing all they can to prevent this and instead impose some more > expensive alternative. I'll take the higher gas mileage of the old version any day and accept personal responsibility for the *lack* of safety features of today's cars that simply contribute to defeat natural selection of the dumbed down mooing masses... JT > Some EEs have modified their Priuses to do this. Voids the warranty, of > course. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > doing all they can to prevent this and instead impose some more > expensive alternative. ive got "free" electricity in my garage, since its a condo its part of the HOA fees. sure would be nice plugging into a 110v AC outlet for an overnight trickle charge, if i had a hybrid. or are the modified ones only good with a 220v feed? |
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