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Car Forum / Honda Cars / March 2006Engine overheat and cool air -thermostat?
Yesterday coming home from work in -10 C, a 26 km drive, I was getting just cold air through the heater. I was watching the temp guage all the way home and as I got near my home about 20 minutes in, the temp guage on my pickup was at the red line. Once parked in driveway, I noticed the rad pushingbubbling fluid into the overflow and could smell hot antifreeze. I have noticed the past few weeks that the temp guage has been rising but then would suddenly start to go down esp. if I turned on the heater and it seemed unusual at the time so I have been watching it. --yesterday was the first time, it did not go down. I went for a little drive later that evening and this time, the temp rose even faster -7 minute drive to move temp guage close to red and still no heat from heater. I assumed/read that you would have one or the other, that is, engine overheats so thermostat is stuck in closed position No heat in car so thermostat is stuck in open position. I seem to have both scenerio's going on. Any thoughts -is it even the thermostat? if so, I know the thermostat is relatively inexpensive? should I buy 3rd party or from dealer and finally, how long/shop time to replace one (I am assuming one hour or so) and is it worth trying to do it myself? Many thanks in advance > Any thoughts -is it even the thermostat? > if so, I know the thermostat is relatively inexpensive? should I buy > 3rd party or from dealer > and finally, how long/shop time to replace one (I am assuming one hour > or so) and is it worth trying to do it myself? I can't remember if the heater hoses bypass the thermostat. I would make sure that the radiator is full of water without air pockets. > Yesterday coming home from work in -10 C, a 26 km drive, > > I was getting just cold air through the heater. See my reply in alt.autos.acura. Learn to cross-post properly so all can benefit from inputs to this thread.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> Yesterday coming home from work in -10 C, a 26 km drive, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Learn to cross-post properly so all can benefit from inputs to this thread. He also posted this in the Toyota newsgroup, and has received plenty of responses. The car in question is an old Toyota pickup. Very sorry, I will learn to cross-post. > Very sorry, I will learn to cross-post. And put your post in the right group. This is a HONDA group. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Very sorry, I will learn to cross-post. And put your post in the right group. This is a HONDA group. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ It is a generic auto question as all cars have cooling systems. I think it would be okay to see what others would choose to offer as a constructive suggestion. So I say sorry and after your first comment and you decide to follow up with a second comment like the 1st. Are you a gatekeeper to this group and if so, are you suggesting that I do not post to this group? Yes, it's generic, but it would be helpful, or maybe better received, if you stated up front that your car is a Toyota and you know this is a Honda newsgroup, but you heard the Honda people are brilliant (and of course good looking as well), so you wondered if people here had any suggestions. :-) Two cents. > It is a generic auto question as all cars have cooling > systems. I think [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that I do not > post to this group? It is a generic auto question as all cars have cooling systems. I think it would be okay to see what others would choose to offer as a constructive suggestion. So I say sorry and after your first comment and you decide to follow up with a second comment like the 1st. Are you a gatekeeper to this group and if so, are you suggesting that I do not post to this group? > It is a generic auto question as all cars have cooling systems. I think > it would be okay to see what others would choose to offer as a > constructive suggestion. some generations of honda are much more sensitive to coolant level issues than many other cars, hence not all honda answers are appropriate. they also have a different circulation configuration than most other cars, hence not all honda answers are appropriate. and this is /not/ a honda question. > So I say sorry and after your first comment > and you decide to follow up with a second comment like the 1st. Are you > a gatekeeper to this group and if so, are you suggesting that I do not > post to this group? in this instance, yes. and since you're new here, go to tegger.com and think about the amount of effort and contributions made before you start bleating about gate keepers. I had the same problem and it was my head gasket. The best way to find out if your head gasket is bad, is do a compression test on the cylinders. You can find out tons of info anbout this is you search... > It is a generic auto question as all cars have cooling systems. And all cars have tires too. Would you say all tires are the same? Systems differ from brand to brand and model to model. Some brands and models have specific trouble areas due to design defects. You give yourself away as a real newbie. Have you ever thought about WHY there are groups for specific things? If you have general automotive questions, post to rec.autos.tech. Oh, wait, you already did. Sheesh. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > "gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote >> It is a generic auto question as all cars have cooling [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > rec.autos.tech. Oh, wait, > you already did. Sheesh. ... and if GP will please now drop and give us 50 pushups, the hazing of the plebe will be concluded, and we might return to our regularly scheduled programming... ;-) Honda people are brilliant (and of course good looking as well) An update on my growth now that the " hazing" /ritual and lesson has come to an end. I cross-posted the follow-up to my engine overheating problem and if any of the brilliant minds would like to contribute to part 2 of the diagnosis in either the toyota/toyota truck and rec.autos.tech . Still do not completely agree that it is wrong to draw on experiences/suggestions from other groups as the participants knowledge is not restricted to Honda but I can understand the usefulness of having specific automaker groups, so with that, I leave you and may hear from you in the toyota forum. Anyway, cheers > Still do not completely agree that it is wrong to draw on > experiences/suggestions from other groups as the > participants knowledge > is not restricted to Honda You're correct. It's not wrong, generally speaking. People have done it in the past here, sometimes with success, and will do so in the future. > but I can understand the usefulness of > having specific automaker groups, so with that, I leave > you and may > hear from you in the toyota forum. I'd stay tuned a bit longer here. 'Specially since you have a good humor. :-) Now that the situation has been clarified, people may be more forthcoming with constructive assistance. > Still do not completely agree that it is wrong to draw on > experiences/suggestions from other groups as the participants knowledge > is not restricted to Honda but I can understand the usefulness of > having specific automaker groups, so with that, I leave you and may > hear from you in the toyota forum. There's nothign wrong with posting OT requests, so long as they are identified as OT right from the start. We see those once in a while, and we help as best we can. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>> Yesterday coming home from work in -10 C, a 26 km drive, >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > He also posted this in the Toyota newsgroup, and has received plenty > of responses. The car in question is an old Toyota pickup. *Which* Toyota group? And what did others say? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Yesterday coming home from work in -10 C, a 26 km drive, > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Many thanks in advance ------------------------ Before doing the thermostat, do an experiment. Fill the rad to the top and the reservoir to the MAX mark. Drive it for 15 minutes and let it cool down. Later, or next morning, check how much coolant it sucked out of the reservoir and top it up again. Do it again when you come out of the office. Don't spill any, and look on the ground to see if there's any leaks. It's possible you may have damaged the engine judging by the phrase . . . "I have noticed the past few weeks" Honda premix is the way to go, tap water is called HONDACIDE. P.S. It's usually helpful to mention the make, model, year, and mileage of the vehicle. 'Curly' If this Toyota is over five years or 100k miles old, I'd consider replacing the thermostat and at least eliminating it. If you're a little handy, rarely are they hard to replace on any car model. Always use an OEM (genuine Toyota here) thermostat. The temperature settings do vary a bit with the aftermarket ones. You only pay a little more, at most, when buying an OEM one anyway. Yes, figure around an hour if a shop does it, unless there's something really peculiar about your Toyota model. Figure a few hours if you've never done it before. Don't forget to have extra antifreeze on hand, to refill the system. Or it could be a good time to do a drain and refill. Chilton's manuals are fine guidance for such repair jobs, at least for Hondas. > Yesterday coming home from work in -10 C, a 26 km drive, > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Many thanks in advance It is an 88 toyota with 190000, 22re engine 4cyl, fuel injected. I bought it 2 years ago and really like it, but of course not so much that I want to sink too much money in it. The rad and hoses seem relatively new. I am pretty handy, do my own tuneups, have replaced shocks and most fluids including dif removal clean and fill. A little summary: -no fluid in the rad -it was fairly dry --I drew some fluid from the drain plug and it seemed like antifreeze (light green and seems to shine a bit but not contaminated i think) -yes to some white out of exhaust but no sweet smell (smell some rubbber but think new tailpipe was installed too close to undermount spare), and white exhaust is not too much and it is cold now --nothing that looks too much out of the ordinary -no milky in oil from dipstick, however, read a book called "keep your toyota alive" and it said to check under the oil fill cap and see if you have a coffee and cream accumulation going on and I do have some creaminess under there, but it is a 20 yr vehicle and I am in a bit in denial so I am hoping that it may be normal in our cold climate. The book suggested that i drain and fill with new oil, examine for same coffee/cream on drain plug in old oil, then drive 40-100 continuous miles and examine again for milkiness. -Next the book suggested a pressure test and leak test if I noticed that milky stuff was coming back. I am at this point: -I plan to fill it with new rad/distillwater mix, change rad cap (easy proactive fix and someone was convinced that that was problem) and watch overflow and monitor temp guage and monitor fuild loss and other signs, esp thermostat indicators which I am not totally sure of but assume it does not include fluid loss. I am also going to run engine from cold with cap off to see if it starts spitting out fluid. Before I continue with thermostat, I will give it a week or so and see how things progress and I know thermostat is not much cost, so I will likely change in the new future unless I narrow it down to that. More importanly, I am trying to rule out the head gasket scenerio. Empowered with all this knowledge, it all else fails, it is off to a local mechanic or Rad shop?? any thoughts. > It is an 88 toyota with 190000, 22re engine 4cyl, fuel > injected. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > A little summary: > -no fluid in the rad -it was fairly dry -- Yikes! > I drew some fluid from the > drain plug and it seemed like antifreeze (light green and [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > from cold with cap off to see if it starts spitting out > fluid. I don't really follow your reasoning here. When purging a Honda radiator system of air, one does in fact start from cold with the rad cap off. But spitting out fluid? Do you mean spitting from the filler neck? What are you expecting with this? Or spitting it out from some leak somewhere else in the system? > Before I > continue with thermostat, I will give it a week or so and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > local > mechanic or Rad shop?? any thoughts. Sounds like you're on the right track. Googling for {"head gasket" symptoms} and skimming the hits will also help you see if you've got a worst case scenario here causing your symptoms. Chilton's manuals for older Toyotas are often at one's public library. >I am at this point: >-I plan to fill it with new rad/distillwater mix, change rad cap (easy [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >with all this knowledge, it all else fails, it is off to a local >mechanic or Rad shop?? any thoughts. If you're going to change out the coolant, you might as well change the thermostat at the same time. It will save you having to drain coolant and refill again. If the hoses look like they've been around a while, you might want to do them too. SignatureMike Iglesias Email: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926 Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069 At this time, i am going to add coolant, top it up, chain rad cap and see what I am losing/leaking. I am thinking that it is no use changing the coolant if I am going to lose it. I think once I actually figure out what is happening, then I will change the thermostat, flush and change the coolant correctly. Hoses and rad seem relatively new to me. Note, I have only had the vehicle for 2 years. By the way, I imagine there is much variation with this, but generally, how long does a thermostat last? Also, I remember that you need to use gasket seal on both sides of new thermostat gasket --is there any special gasket sealant needed? like for high heat applications, etc. please recommend a brand. No gasket sealant is used on Honda thermostat gaskets. Just the gasket all by its lonesome. Figure a new OEM thermostat lasts at least five years and 100k miles. > At this time, i am going to add coolant, top it up, chain > rad cap and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > applications, etc. > please recommend a brand. To pressure test or not: I emailed a pretty big Radiator garage about a pressure test and this is what they said; "The best we can offer to you at the present time is to bring your vehicle in this Saturday and we will pressure test your system for free and hopefully find out where your coolant is going. More than likely, if you have never noticed any coolant on the ground (leaks) your vehicle probably has a intake or head gasket leak." It is free, I am inclined to do it this Saturday morning and let the chips fall where they may. My thinking is usually, if it ain't broke, but it is broke, so may as well go for it. |
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