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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2006Just Bought a 2006 Accord EX V-6 6 SPD CPE
This is my first Honda. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions. I am reading the owners manual as I type. I plan on making it last for 200k. Thanks in advance Suggestions? In what way?  SignatureMunG35 http://www.automotiveforums.com I am looking into way to make it last as long as possible. I plan to use a synthetic oil and do my own oil changes. I will buy several washers up front. What is the opinion of the OEM oil filters? If good does anyone one know a good place one line to buy them from? > Suggestions? In what way? > I am looking into way to make it last as long as possible. I plan to use a > synthetic oil and do my own oil changes. dude, synthetic oil isn't the magic bullet. Do the math on synthetic oil with longer changes (say, 5K and 7.5K) vs. regular oil with 3K changes. I guarantee you, regular oil even at 5K intervals is more than enough protection to make this thing last forever. Synthetic oil is throwing your money down the drain. >> I am looking into way to make it last as long as possible. I plan to use >> a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > protection to make this thing last forever. Synthetic oil is throwing > your money down the drain. Yup. I go 7k between changes using plain old dino oil (well, blend these days I think is all the 5w-20 you'll find) and at 154,000 miles (on an '01 V6/AT Accord) engine still runs like when new. > > Do the math on synthetic oil with longer changes (say, 5K and 7.5K) vs. > > regular oil with 3K changes. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > days I think is all the 5w-20 you'll find) and at 154,000 miles (on an '01 > V6/AT Accord) engine still runs like when new. Get an oil analysis from Blackstone Labs, and come back with the results. I did so with my 92 Civic Si at around 112K miles; the report showed that my 3K oil change intervals were *still* unneeded, and recommended going to 5K based on the condition of the oil. Further, it appeared as if the inside of the engine was in new condition. Let's see...Mobil 1 is $6/qt, $30 for the oil. Dino is, what? Buck and a half? $7.50 worth of oil for the whole shebang? (to the original poster:) All other things being equal--and they are--synthetic costs you $22.50 more per change. If you change at 5K intervals, you're paying another half a penny per mile more just for the oil. And it isn't doing you any better than dino. Let's say you don't trust dino and wouldn't let it go any farther than 3K miles. Your total oil cost per mile is 0.25 cents. A quarter of a penny. That's being INCREDIBLY generous. Any modern oil in a modern engine can go 5K miles without trouble. To get that low of a per-mile oil cost with synthetic means you'd have to run it for 12K miles between changes. And you'd NEVER do that, no matter what. Even worse: with 5K intervals and dino, you're paying 0.15 cents/mile for oil. To get that cost with synthetic, you're now up to a 20K mile change interval. You'd NEVER do that, period. Yet 5K intervals with dino on a new Honda V6 engine protect it just as well as 7.5K or 10K intervals with synthetic--but at half the cost per mile. Fact: you pay a serious premium for synthetic, and putting it in a Honda is wasting your money. People who would put synthetic in a Honda are like the people who pay $1000/meter for stereo cables--easily suckered by marketing hype, easily scared, and easily parted from their money. Let's face it: this is a Honda. It's not a 'Vette or an M5. >> > Do the math on synthetic oil with longer changes (say, 5K and 7.5K) vs. >> > regular oil with 3K changes. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Get an oil analysis from Blackstone Labs, and come back with the results. Nah, not gonna bother. I figure it being a V6/AT, at this rate the tranny will give out way before the motor. Doubt the vehicle will be worth repair when that happens. >>I am looking into way to make it last as long as possible. I plan to use a >>synthetic oil and do my own oil changes. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > protection to make this thing last forever. Synthetic oil is throwing > your money down the drain. here's a thought: if synthetic gives slightly better gas mileage because of better lubricity, and i've seen dyno reports to the effect that synthetics /can/ sightly increase horsepower so there must be some reason to that argument, then it may not be so simple. example: if a car on dino gives 30mpg and say 31.5mpg on synthetic, [5% improvement], then over a 5,000 mile change interval, that's 250 miles of savings, or 8.3 gallons. at $2.50, that's $20 worth of gas. that covers ~4 quarts of m1, which is the capacity of my civic. now, if the change interval can be extended... see where i'm going? doesn't mean it's right, just a scenario to consider... If you want your Honda Accord's oil pan to last as long as the engine it's bolted to, make a firm commitment, now, to always have your oil changed at a Honda dealership. The cost is the same - sometimes less - than at the quick oil change stores, and the Honda dealer will always change the 5 cent zinc washer on the drain plug, something the oil change stores will never do. Your Honda Accord has an aluminum alloy oil pan with a steel drain plug, and the zinc washer, which is quite deformable compared to the aluminum alloy, protects the drain hole threads from stretching (and, eventually, stripping) when the plug is snugged up; when the threads have stripped, that's it for your $400+ oil pan. The false economy and dubious convenience of quick oil change stores retired the original oil pan on my 1988 Honda Accord at about 60,000 miles (changing oil every 5,000 miles); the oil pan on my mother's 1995 Honda Accord was done in at 40,000 miles (roughly the same change frequency). > If you want your Honda Accord's oil pan to last as long as the engine it's > bolted to, make a firm commitment, now, to always have your oil changed at a > Honda dealership. The cost is the same - sometimes less - than at the quick > oil change stores, and the Honda dealer will always change the 5 cent zinc > washer on the drain plug, something the oil change stores will never do. it's aluminum, not zinc. and in my experience, dealer oil changes are delegated to the least skilled person in the shop who is just as capable of screwing it up as monkeylube. > Your Honda Accord has an aluminum alloy oil pan with a steel drain plug, most oil pans are steel - to withstand road debris damage. > and > the zinc washer, which is quite deformable compared to the aluminum alloy, > protects the drain hole threads from stretching (and, eventually, stripping) > when the plug is snugged up; when the threads have stripped, that's it for > your $400+ oil pan. steel is $37.73 retail. > The false economy and dubious convenience of quick oil > change stores retired the original oil pan on my 1988 Honda Accord at about > 60,000 miles (changing oil every 5,000 miles); dealers rarely use honda oil, so what's the point? > the oil pan on my mother's > 1995 Honda Accord was done in at 40,000 miles (roughly the same change > frequency). all that says is that it was messed up, and that can happen anywhere. i've watched dealers do it may times. the crx i got at 305k miles was on its original oil pan and had never been serviced at a dealer its whole life - i had the full service history. according to your dictum, the pan should have been replaced many times. it all comes down to having it done right, and that is a function of training & skill of the technician, /not/ the name on the door of the shop. > in my experience, dealer oil changes are > delegated to the least skilled person in the shop who is just as capable > of screwing it up as monkeylube. Sometimes true. Not always, and not if you specifically request a technician that you know isn't that guy. No one touches my car except one guy--well, the drivetrain, anyway. If there's *any* upholstery work or power sliding door issues, there's one other guy who specializes in that. And I've known him for 20 years, too. There's a reason to be a regular customer... > Sometimes true. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > There's a reason to be a regular customer... Have a '04 Accord EX-L sedan with 25K pampered miles on it ... Always request, if available, the same technician at the local Honda dealership. Insist on the technician using individual bottles of Honda 5W-20 motor oil (from the parts department) rather than from the bulk oil dispenser in the service bay (or you can bring in your own oil that you purchased from Pep Boys). Also insist on them using fender guards, steering wheel covers, etc. and keep the engine bay clean! Keep the factory oil in your engine until the mileage recommended in the owners manual, because it has special additives. For my VTEC 4-cylinder, I got my first oil change at 5K miles, as recommended, and then regularly get it changed at the dealership every 2500 miles. This oil-change interval (every 3 months) seems to be a little excessive, but it brings peace of mind knowing that you are always feeding your engine parts with clean oil. Tire rotations should be done with more frequency than recommended -- I get mine rotated every other oil change -- or at 5K-mile intervals. Congratulations on your new Accord! Welcome to the Honda family! Guess DIY oil changes are a thing of the past - takes me a whole 10 minutes to do that - change oil at every 4 to 4.5K. Use Castrol and quaker state filters. Do not use Fram filters - there are some pretty good ones including Wal Mart house brand. Probably the worst place to have your oil changed is one of those franchise fast change places - they get the bottom of the barrell at least in my neck of the woods. Years ago while living in Atlanta - my next door neighbor had an 80 accord like myself and was about to make a long trip and asked me if any place in the area could change his oil - changed it for him - had extra filters. Previously he had the same dealer do all of his servicing. The filter had not been removed for a long time - looked like it was the filter that came with the car. Had to use a wrench to get the thing off and the gasket seperated and stayed on the block - had to scrape it off. He was an excellent lawyer - wanted to go after the so and so's - but point is this - even dealers are not above crooked games. One of the local garages heats with used oil in the winter - he is happy to see 5 gallons of oil in late winter. Use only honda power steering fluid - anything else will blow the seals - pricey repair - yours is a manual tranny - check on the tranny oil change interval and use what is recommended by the OM. Don't ride the clutch - always completely remove your foot when shifting - even a little pressure releases the clutch plate - mechanics like clutch pedal riders. My 97 had 194K on it now - good for probably 250K before it starts getting pricey to maintain. > > Sometimes true. > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > you purchased from Pep Boys). Also insist on them using fender guards, > steering wheel covers, etc. and keep the engine bay clean! My dealer used to let me bring my own Mobil 1. Changed policy -- it's bulk 5-20 or nothing. So, I take my Prelude elsewhere for service. > Keep the factory oil in your engine until the mileage recommended in > the owners manual, because it has special additives. For my VTEC [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Congratulations on your new Accord! Welcome to the Honda family! >> If you want your Honda Accord's oil pan to last as long as the engine >> it's bolted to, make a firm commitment, now, to always have your oil [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > delegated to the least skilled person in the shop who is just as capable > of screwing it up as monkeylube. You're correct, the drain plug washer is aluminum, not zinc. Be that as it may, the point is that it will always be (and should always be) replaced with every oil change at a Honda dealer, and it will never be changed in a million years if you get your oil changes at a 'monkeylube', as you call them. >> Your Honda Accord has an aluminum alloy oil pan with a steel drain plug, > > most oil pans are steel - to withstand road debris damage. We're not talking about most oil pans ... we're talking about the oil pans that come as factory equipment on a new Honda Accord - in particular, a 2006 Honda Accord - and they are manufactured from aluminum alloy. >> and the zinc washer, which is quite deformable compared to the aluminum >> alloy, protects the drain hole threads from stretching (and, eventually, >> stripping) when the plug is snugged up; when the threads have stripped, >> that's it for your $400+ oil pan. > > steel is $37.73 retail. Your point? >> The false economy and dubious convenience of quick oil change stores >> retired the original oil pan on my 1988 Honda Accord at about 60,000 >> miles (changing oil every 5,000 miles); > > dealers rarely use honda oil, so what's the point? My point is that it's the failure of the quick lube shops to replace the aluminum drain plug washer with each oil change (or ever in a million oil changes) that causes the drain-hole threads on a Honda Accord's aluminum alloy oil pan to become stretched and, eventually, stripped ... the nature of the motor oil provided may be important from a number of other points of view, but it is completely and totally irrelevant to the problem of stripped drain-hole threads on aluminum alloy oil pans. >> the oil pan on my mother's 1995 Honda Accord was done in at 40,000 miles >> (roughly the same change frequency). > > all that says is that it was messed up, and that can happen anywhere. Theoretically, yes, it could happen anywhere. As a practical matter, however, it doesn't happen just anywhere ... it happens with regularity among Honda Accord owners who have made a habit of frequenting the quick lube establishments, and it almost never happens among Honda Accord owners who never have their oil changed anywhere but the service department at Honda dealership. > i've watched dealers do it may times. the crx i got at 305k miles was on > its original oil pan and had never been serviced at a dealer its whole > life - i had the full service history. according to your dictum, the pan > should have been replaced many times. it all comes down to having it done > right, and that is a function of training & skill of the technician, /not/ > the name on the door of the shop. Right, and the Honda service technicians are trained to change the aluminum drain plug gasket with each and every oil change, while the 'technicians' at quick lube establishments are *not* trained to change the aluminum drain plug gasket ever in a million years. It's just that simple. Also if the aluminum pan is damaged and every oil change was done at Honda shop, Honda should cover the tab. >>> If you want your Honda Accord's oil pan to last as long as the engine >>> it's bolted to, make a firm commitment, now, to always have your oil [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > 'technicians' at quick lube establishments are *not* trained to change the > aluminum drain plug gasket ever in a million years. It's just that simple. > Also if the aluminum pan is damaged and every oil change was done at Honda > shop, Honda should cover the tab. No argument on that one. >>>If you want your Honda Accord's oil pan to last as long as the engine >>>it's bolted to, make a firm commitment, now, to always have your oil [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > that come as factory equipment on a new Honda Accord - in particular, a 2006 > Honda Accord - and they are manufactured from aluminum alloy. honda lists both guy. check for yourself. i'll take steel for the reason stated. >>>and the zinc washer, which is quite deformable compared to the aluminum >>>alloy, protects the drain hole threads from stretching (and, eventually, [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > quick lube establishments are *not* trained to change the aluminum drain > plug gasket ever in a million years. It's just that simple. not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any good. i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter gasket in place, then screw a new filter and gasket on top of it on my civic once. he looked most "confused" when a fountain of oil sprayed literally 3' out of the engine compartment. so i say again, there's no guarantee that a honda tech is better than any other on the dumb as rocks stuff like this. >>>>If you want your Honda Accord's oil pan to last as long as the engine >>>>it's bolted to, make a firm commitment, now, to always have your oil [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > honda lists both guy. check for yourself. i'll take steel for the reason > stated. In 1996, for my 1988 Accord LXi, the repair at my dealer broke down as follows: Oil pan, complete 138.00 Gasket, oil pan 13.32 Labor 135.20 Oil/filter/drain plug washer/labor 20.86 Total $307.38 + tax My recent oil change, at the same dealer, was $20.04, which includes the 36-cent aluminum washer that they always replace when they change the oil ... the same 36-cent washer that was never changed by the quick lube establishments right up to the day that one of their 'technicians' came in to the customer waiting room to tell me that "when I tighten the drain plug it just goes around and around." Your view is that trading at the quick lube establishments is a well-managed risk for an Accord owner, and my experience tells me that this risk isn't very well managed at all, if for no other reason than the rhetorical quasi-fact that 99.9 percent of all Honda Accord owners don't have a shop manual for their vehicle and have no idea that the aluminum drain plug washer needs to be replaced with every oil change, or ever for that matter. >>>>and the zinc washer, which is quite deformable compared to the aluminum >>>>alloy, protects the drain hole threads from stretching (and, eventually, [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > of the engine compartment. so i say again, there's no guarantee that a > honda tech is better than any other on the dumb as rocks stuff like this. > not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any good. > i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter gasket in > place, then screw a new filter and gasket on top of it on my civic once. > he looked most "confused" when a fountain of oil sprayed literally 3' out > of the engine compartment. so i say again, there's no guarantee that a > honda tech is better than any other on the dumb as rocks stuff like this. No matter where you go, there is always a chance they will screw it up. I took my new car to the dealer for its first oil change. When it was all done, I started the engine. A lot of smoke came out. A senior mechanic came out and he said some oil got spilled on the engine. He flushed the oil off the engine but I still had to smell the oil burning for the next 30 miles. I also found out later they put 5 quarts of oil in there when it only needs 41/2. Needless to say, I was very surprised. I am not a mechanic. I have only done oil change myself a few times before and never had any problems. So I am going to do my own maintanence from now on. They recommend changing the drain plug gasket every time to avoid leaking. I just don't buy it. There must be design flaw if an old gasket can damage the oil pan. >>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any good. >>i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter gasket in [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > just don't buy it. There must be design flaw if an old gasket can damage the > oil pan. it's not the gasket that's causing damage, it's over-torque of the drain plug stripping threads out of the pan. there's only so much a manufacturer can do to idiot-proof something so basic. personally, i've never stripped a drain plug and i only replace the gasket every 3-5 times i drain, but hey, i'm reckless, inexperienced and unqualified, so i'm cavalier about such risks. >>>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any good. >>>i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter gasket in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > i drain, but hey, i'm reckless, inexperienced and unqualified, so i'm > cavalier about such risks. How is a new gasket going to avoid damage if you over-torque. There is really no need to change it that often. A ton of high mileage cars on the road probably never had the gaskets changed. >>>>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any good. >>>>i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter gasket in [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > really no need to change it that often. A ton of high mileage cars on the > road probably never had the gaskets changed. The drain plug gasket is aluminum, with a Young's modulus (modulus of elasticity, the slope of the linear portion of the stress/strain curve, derived from standardized materials testing) is lower than either the steel drain plug or the aluminum alloy oil pan (which includes the drain-hole threads), so overtorquing results in permanent deformation of the drain plug gasket before permanent deformation (stretching) of the drain-hole threads occurs. The need for a regular change of the drain plug gasket arises from the fact that the material from which it is made strain-hardens as it is permanently (inelastically) deformed; if the drain-plug gasket remains unchanged, the drain-hole threads quickly become the most easily-deformed element in the system (drain hole, drain plug and drain-plug gasket). This is basic engineering mechanics and materials science. >>>>>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any >>>>>good. i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > drain-plug gasket). This is basic engineering mechanics and materials > science. Sure, it will deform if over-torqued. There is no argument about that, but it is really not the point. The question is whether the gasket should be replaced at every oil change regardless of the condition. Of course, I am no scientist, but experience told me that it is unnecessary. >>>>>>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any >>>>>>good. i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > replaced at every oil change regardless of the condition. Of course, I am > no scientist, but experience told me that it is unnecessary. Experience, by its nature, is subjective ... your experience is what you think (or imagine) it is. >>>>>>>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any >>>>>>>good. i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > Experience, by its nature, is subjective ... your experience is what you > think (or imagine) it is. No, that's real world experience. It is more real and objective than any theory. >>>>>>>>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any >>>>>>>>good. i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > No, that's real world experience. It is more real and objective than any > theory. You can always tell someone with 'real world experience' ... you just can't tell 'em much. > > not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any good. > > i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter gasket in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > also found out later they put 5 quarts of oil in there when it only needs > 41/2. The dealer I usedfor my Prelude routinely spilled oil everywhere so that I would have get underneath the car and clean it off with degreaser. I now take my car to a shop (not a quik change) that carries Mobil1 and allows me to provide a Honda filter and crush washer. They do not spill oil everywhere. So, I don't think the dealer is necessarily the answer. > Needless to say, I was very surprised. I am not a mechanic. I have only done > oil change myself a few times before and never had any problems. So I am [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > just don't buy it. There must be design flaw if an old gasket can damage the > oil pan. > your $400+ oil pan. The false economy and dubious convenience of quick oil > change stores retired the original oil pan on my 1988 Honda Accord at about > 60,000 miles (changing oil every 5,000 miles); the oil pan on my mother's > 1995 Honda Accord was done in at 40,000 miles (roughly the same change > frequency). I don't believe your hypothesis that it was because the washer wasn't changed. Answer this one: did you watch any of those oil change jobs? Did they, by chance, use a pneumatic impact wrench to install the bolt instead of torquing it by hand? |
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