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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2006Used Civic or new Fit?
My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. I'm looking for something reliable, inexpensive, and fuel-efficient, with manual transmission, under $15,000. Saturn seems to have given up on fuel-efficiency and most of the other things that once made it a sensible choice. So now I'm ready for a Honda. I had planned on getting a used Civic, but the local dealership will be getting the new Fit in soon. I haven't bought new in decades because of the initial depreciation. But it would be nice to have something under warranty. And since the Fit's been out for a while already, there's no beta testing to do :) But the Civic has a good track record for holding its value, and has a more conventional appearance. Whatever I buy, I'm planning to keep it for many years. Since I'm new to Honda, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! --Nan > My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > So now I'm ready for a Honda. I had planned on getting a used Civic, > but the local dealership will be getting the new Fit in soon. Honda Fit gets top ranking from Car and Driver magazine with regard to being the driver's car of the bunch. Nissan Versa gets the nod for the best all-around package. I also love the Scion xB. With the xB, you get a very mature marketplace for accessories. >> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >I also love the Scion xB. With the xB, you get a very mature >marketplace for accessories. The Scions are pretty intriguing. I'm more drawn to the xA, though. The local Scion dealer seems to have only the xB and tC :( --Nan >>> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > --Nan And 2 of the 3 are ugly beyond words, IMNHO.  SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > >> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. > >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > --Nan --Nan, The Civic or Fit would be a better choice than any car made by GM or Ford. The reason is related to quality. Any of the smaller vehicles made by Toyota would also be a great choice. Jasaon SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > The Scions are pretty intriguing. I'm more drawn to the xA, though. > The local Scion dealer seems to have only the xB and tC :( find a dealer thats got the xA. let em have your money! i likes em both, but the xB is a teenage boy racer magnet. therell be more of them stolen and stripped for parts than xA's > My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > --Nan If you can afford the Civic--get the Civic since it should have more power than the Fit.If you can't afford the Civic--get The Fit Sport. You may want to test drive both of them before you make a decision. Also, compare the HP and torque and top speed of both engines before you make a decision. Also, consider the options that you want in your new car. I recall that I once purchased a new car that did not have a tach. or temp. gauge. I later regretted not getting the higher priced model that had a tach. and temp. gauge. The higher priced car also had a more powerful engine. I have not made that mistake again. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > nblom@mindspring.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > make a > decision. I agree with Jason the above are important considerations. But before reading his post, I was thinking of asking you nblom how important fuel efficiency is. The Fit is reportedly getting around 50 mpg. It's probably around 20% more fuel efficient than the Civic. But this of course is at the sacrifice of power--acceleration, like Jason says. So you sort of have to consider what your priorities are. I have a 1.5 Liter 91 Civic getting 40 mpg but I salivate at the thought of having a 1.3 or 1.4 Liter Fit inside of 10 years, getting 50 mpg. I don't need g's. :-) >> nblom@mindspring.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > 1.3 or 1.4 Liter Fit inside of 10 years, getting 50 mpg. I don't need g's. > :-) The U.S. Fit has a 1.5 liter VTEC (SOHC), 109 HP (new method rating, probably 115 under the old system). It's pretty well trimmed, with AC, air bags, full gauges, decent radio w/CD. The Sport model adds larger alloy wheels and larger tires, more body trim, keyless entry, etc. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA "Kent Finnell" <kentfinn@bellsouth.net> wrote E >> So you sort of have to consider what your priorities are. >> I have a 1.5 Liter 91 Civic getting 40 mpg but I salivate >> at the thought of having a 1.3 or 1.4 Liter Fit inside of >> 10 years, getting 50 mpg. I don't need g's. :-) > The U.S. Fit has a 1.5 liter VTEC (SOHC), 109 HP (new > method rating, probably 115 under the old system). Unfortunately Kent is correct. http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/index.aspx confirms the smaller engine versions of the Fit (which IIRC I've seen elsewhere on the net) will not be sold in the U.S. Bustards. OTOH, the new Civics are 1.8 Liter engines. Couldn't dig up mileage specs for either quickly. > Couldn't dig up mileage specs for either quickly. You're going to be very, very disappointed: 31/38 automatic, 33/38. That's no better than the 01-05 Civics. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/14341961.htm > Elle wrote: >> Couldn't dig up mileage specs for either quickly. > > You're going to be very, very disappointed: You sure called that one right! :-) I await the Toyota Yaris or the arrival of a Fit with a smaller engine. > 31/38 automatic, 33/38. > That's no better than the 01-05 Civics. > > http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/14341961.htm > I await the Toyota Yaris or the arrival of a Fit with a > smaller engine. I suspect Toyota is happier selling the Prius for $22K+ than an underpowered Yaris for $12K. Honda is having more difficulty selling their hybrid-assist cars so maybe a Fit with a smaller engine will show up. Probably not before Civic sales slacken. >> I await the Toyota Yaris or the arrival of a Fit with a >> smaller engine. > >I suspect Toyota is happier selling the Prius for $22K+ than an >underpowered Yaris for $12K. Have you driven one? Yaris, that is. Or are you just looking at specs? >> Elle wrote: >>> Couldn't dig up mileage specs for either quickly. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I await the Toyota Yaris or the arrival of a Fit with a > smaller engine. the yaris 3dr is probably going to be the most fun to drive. lightest curb weight and the same engine as the yaris sedan, xA, xB. we shall see, tho. i kinda like the practicality of 4 doors. > >> Elle wrote: > >>> Couldn't dig up mileage specs for either quickly. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > i kinda like the practicality of 4 doors. I doubt that most people would want to own a Yaris. I saw a picture of the dashboard of the Yaris. Believe it or not--the speedometer and related guages are located in the center of the dash--directly below the overhead mirror. Imagine looking in that direction everytime you wanted to check your speed. That appears to me to be unsafe. I should note that there is an excellent article about the Fit in the current issue of Honda Tuning magazine. I wonder if Toyota has a brochure about the Yaris in their dealerships? If you know the answer--please post it. The center mounted dash cluster was one of the reasons that the Yaris came in 4th place in the Car and Driver comparison test. I found this statement in the article related to Yaris S: "All of our testers disliked the center mounted guage cluster." Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >>>> Elle wrote: >>>>> Couldn't dig up mileage specs for either quickly. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > mirror. Imagine looking in that direction everytime you wanted to check > your speed. same as the scion xA and xB. same as the funky echo before that, too. pretty easy to get used to, and allows glove boxes on BOTH sides of the dash, which i think the yaris has. saturn thought it was so neat, they copied it for their saturn ion line. hmmm... "saturn ion"... "scion". kinda sounds the same, sorta! not enough to fool people. the upside is you can finance a saturn for 60mos at 0%. the bad thing is youd have to drive a saturn :( not a whole lot weirder than the double decker civic dash. tho my fave was the first gen prelude, with the tach sitting inside the speedo. or vice versa... i forgot. > That appears to me to be unsafe. I should note that there is an excellent > article about the Fit in the current issue of Honda Tuning magazine. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > comparison test. I found this statement in the article related to Yaris S: > "All of our testers disliked the center mounted guage cluster." yet they loved the xB in the econoBOX test a month earlier. similar dash setup! which goes to show that even getting rid of brock yates has left a bunch of alkies on the staff. > Jason if you can get a 4 door scion for the same price as a yaris with similar options, it only makes sense to get the scion. thats going to be the yaris 3dr downfall. and 4 door, too. id bet a loaded yaris sedan is almost the same price as a scion xB, which is infinately cooler and has more room. > >>>> Elle wrote: > >>>>> Couldn't dig up mileage specs for either quickly. [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > loaded yaris sedan is almost the same price as a scion xB, which is > infinately cooler and has more room. You are probably correct--only time will tell. I saw a scion xB on a parking lot today and thought it looked great. I only hope that it runs as well as it looks. I would prefer the Honda Civic Si over the scion xB. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >> Couldn't dig up mileage specs for either quickly. > > You're going to be very, very disappointed: 31/38 automatic, 33/38. > That's no better than the 01-05 Civics. > > http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/14341961.htm Keep in mind that EPA tends to underestimate mileage for Hondas. My '93 Accord automatic gets about 33mpg on the highway, considerably better than the 28mpg that EPA estimated. The Scion xB might only be able to get 28mpg (in real world driving...which is not surprising cause Toyota fuel consumption estimate are always on the optomistic side, which isn't the case with Honda), but if that rear bench is able to come off the xB, we're looking at some serious cargo capacity. I doubt any other vehicle in N.A would be able to handle that much cargo and still be able to return small car economy. It's a shame that they don't sell them here in Toronto. I bet the independent delivery drivers in Toronto alone would snatch up the first 1000. Pars > The Scion xB might only be able to get 28mpg (in real world > driving...which is not surprising cause Toyota fuel consumption [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Toronto. I bet the independent delivery drivers in Toronto alone would > snatch up the first 1000. ive seen em in use as courier vehicles, mobile repair vehicles, and cabs. > Pars >> nblom@mindspring.com wrote: >> If you can afford the Civic--get the Civic since it should >> have more power [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >the thought of having a 1.3 or 1.4 Liter Fit inside of 10 >years, getting 50 mpg. I don't need g's. :-) I'm thinking ahead on fuel efficiency. In the next five years it seems likely that gas is going to get _much_ more expensive, with some unpleasant spikes now and then. I've always been careful about mpg -- never had a car that got less than 35 hwy. Some of them had some kick to them, too :) There's talk of a hybrid Fit next year... If my old car had survived, I'd have waited for that -- and it would have been an _easy_ decision :) --Nan >> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >made that mistake again. >Jason The test drive may make the decision for me. That and the settlement from the insurance company :) Power does factor in -- I wouldn't want to go any lower than my old Saturn SL2. Most of my driving is low/medium traffic commuting, but a couple of times a year will take some long trips (900 miles or so). --Nan > The test drive may make the decision for me. Be sure to take it onto the highway at 75 mpg. The Fit is kinda noisy and you may not like it for long trips. > That and the settlement from the insurance company :) Nissan is offering rebates on the Senta dropping the price for base models to near $11K. You might want to check insurance premiums; I suspect the Fit Sport will cost you more than a Civic or Sentra sedan. > Power does factor in -- I wouldn't want to go any lower than my old > Saturn SL2. A new Civic would certainly be a lot more powerful. > Most of my driving is low/medium traffic commuting, but a > couple of times a year will take some long trips (900 miles or so). > > --Nan Test driving is the only way for you to figure out which car will meet your particular needs and desires. Try to drive all the cars in all the different roads/traffic conditions you typically encounter. A test drive at night may also prove useful. Happy Shopping ACAR > Power does factor in -- I wouldn't want to go any lower than my old > Saturn SL2. Most of my driving is low/medium traffic commuting, but a > couple of times a year will take some long trips (900 miles or so). i wonder if HP/curb weight would be a good appromation of "power" Fit is nicely made but tiny. The last half-second before another car/truck hits you, you'll be wishing you had bought the Civic. > Fit is nicely made but tiny. > > The last half-second before another car/truck hits you, you'll be > wishing you had bought the Civic. If you're worried about that, buy at least a Hummer II. The Fit is about the same size as the 2nd or 3rd generation Civic coupe but heavier ... all that SAFETY equipment don't you know, crush zones, safety beams in the doors, a bunch of air bags, enhanced bumpers. On top of that, the Fit is very nimble and the basic idea is to avoid the accident in the first place. The 214 pounds difference in weight between the Civic LX 4 Dr. and the Fit Sport 5 Dr. won't do you a lot of good if you're hit by a large MB, mini-van, F150, SUV, or Hummer. Sheesh, I've been hearing "buy the bigger, heavier car because it's safer" for at least 50 years now. Like the song says, "it ain't necessarily so." It's one of the earliest urban legends. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA >>The last half-second before another car/truck hits you, you'll be >>wishing you had bought the Civic. - snip - > If you're worried about that, buy at least a Hummer II. - snip snip - The bigger is better talk never ceases to amaze me anyway I hear the U.S. may get a HYBRID fit with a MSRP of less than 15K, sure hope thats true ! SignatureRob Fruth - Houston, Tx http://www.rfruth.net 1981 Raleigh for errands & fun ____ __o 1997 Trek 2300 for real fun ! ____ _ \ | _) 2000 Civic hatchback (_)/ (_) > > Fit is nicely made but tiny. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Sport 5 Dr. won't do you a lot of good if you're hit by a large MB, > mini-van, F150, SUV, or Hummer. The Fit is a couple hundred pounds HEAVIER than my 92 Civic Si. And with 16 fewer horsepower, too. Beams are great but you gotta have some crush space for the metal deforming too. It looks like you wear the Fit, more than get into it. >Fit is nicely made but tiny. > >The last half-second before another car/truck hits you, you'll be >wishing you had bought the Civic. Heh. The Saturn SL2 is by far the largest car I've owned. My first was totaled by a drunk driver. The last was rear-ended and pushed into another car this past fall. Walked away from both. My Fiat X1/9 convertible ended up in a ravine. Had to crawl out of the roof. My Karmann Ghia T-boned by a Buick Electra on the driver's side. Walked away from those, too. Driving a small car isn't an issue for me anymore. (To the Fates: This statement is not to be taken as any kind of dare or anything.) --Nan > My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. > > I'm looking for something reliable, inexpensive, and fuel-efficient, > with manual transmission, under $15,000. scion xA or xB. bulletproof engine, little to no maintenance reqired, since it has self adjusting valves, and a timing chain instead of belt. no more $600 timing belt replacements every 90-110k miles! > Saturn seems to have given up on fuel-efficiency and most of the other > things that once made it a sensible choice. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > But the Civic has a good track record for holding its value, and has a > more conventional appearance. i dunno if the fit is any more "normal" looking than any other short, high-roofed 4 door hatch. sadly, they offered a 4-door "wagovan" from 88-91(ish?) that was a high roofed 4 door, and it didnt sell. too ahead of their time? > Whatever I buy, I'm planning to keep it for many years. > > Since I'm new to Honda, any advice would be greatly appreciated. im considering a fit as well. also going to look at the toyota yaris hatch, the scions, and possibly the nissan versa when it comes out. only thing is, i can guarantee the fit will sell for MSRP+, especially with gas prices going back up. and it also won a 7-way car and driver test. havent looked at the engine specs, but if it still uses a belt and needs valve adjustments, i may pass. ive never had a car with power windows/locks and/or keyless entry, and i think thatd be neat. and a factory sunroof would be nice too. yes- a "loaded" economy car. theyre popular in europe. > Thanks! > > --Nan > ive never had a car with power windows/locks and/or keyless entry, and i > think thatd be neat. and a factory sunroof would be nice too. yes- a > "loaded" economy car. theyre popular in europe. I would add heated leather seats to an xB myself. I get it. >> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > havent looked at the engine specs, but if it still uses a belt and needs > valve adjustments, i may pass. It uses a chain like all recent VTEC engines. Look at http://vtec.net for several indepth articles on the technical aspects of the Fit. > ive never had a car with power windows/locks and/or keyless entry, and i > think thatd be neat. and a factory sunroof would be nice too. yes- a > "loaded" economy car. theyre popular in europe. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > It uses a chain like all recent VTEC engines. Look at http://vtec.net for > several indepth articles on the technical aspects of the Fit. didnt see anything on there in writing, but the block/head doesnt have a belt cover. seems like a nice car, reminiscent of that suzuki 4dr hatch, with the same too small looking wheels. to me, it looks like the scion Xa has more standard features for a couple grand less, but ill withhold judgement til i get to compare em back to back. magic seat is nice, but not worth $3000 more. >> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >since it has self adjusting valves, and a timing chain instead of belt. >no more $600 timing belt replacements every 90-110k miles! The xA is a nice looking car. Reminds me a little of the Mini Cooper. It's running a close second if I do decide to buy new. >> Saturn seems to have given up on fuel-efficiency and most of the other >> things that once made it a sensible choice. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >think thatd be neat. and a factory sunroof would be nice too. yes- a >"loaded" economy car. theyre popular in europe. Gas prices are already going up here. We might be seeing a lot more of these tiny cars soon. My other option is to get something _very_ cheap that'll last about a year until the Fit hybrid comes out :) --Nan >>> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. >>> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > --Nan The Fit Hybrid is at least 2 years away, if then. The "2007" Fit is coming out of sequence for Honda's model cycle. The next major change is 2 years away, instead of 5. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > >>> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. > >>> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > out of sequence for Honda's model cycle. The next major change is 2 years > away, instead of 5. Does Honda still make the really small Hybrid called the Insight? That would be a good option for anyone that wants a small hybrid car. I would prefer the hybrid Civic since it has more room and more power. I once had a friend that owned an Insight. She said that it did not have enough power and when she went up a grade--she would push the pedal to the metal and the car would only go about 50 mph (on grades). Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >> >>> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. >> >>> [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > the car would only go about 50 mph (on grades). > Jason Yeah, but virtually on order only. One is not likely to be found on a dealer's lot. The Insight was Honda's Beta test. They are 2 seaters only with a 1.0 liter engine and set for economy with skinny tires. Short commute on flat land only. The Civic and Accord hybrids are real cars with real power (especially the V6 Hybrid Accord). SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > >> >>> My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. > >> >>> [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > skinny tires. Short commute on flat land only. The Civic and Accord > hybrids are real cars with real power (especially the V6 Hybrid Accord). If I was planning on buying a Hybrid--it would be the Civic Hybrid or the Toyota Prius. I read an article in a car magazine indicating that the Accord Hybrid and Civic Hybrids are poor sellers compared to the Prius. Believe it or not, the article indicated the main reason is the Prius looks like a Hybrid whereas, the Civic Hybrid and Accord Hybrid don't look like Hybrids. In other words, lots of the people that purchased a Prius in order to impress their friends. They should put a bumper sticker on those Prius cars that say, "Look at Me--I am an Environmentalist." Of course, that is not true for all of the people that own a Prius. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > If I was planning on buying a Hybrid--it would be the Civic Hybrid or the > Toyota Prius. I read an article in a car magazine indicating that the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > like Hybrids. In other words, lots of the people that purchased a Prius in > order to impress their friends. They should put a bumper sticker on those maybe its the versatility of the hatch? maybe because it IS styled differently. more gizmos and stuff. or maybe because toyota wrote the book on hybrids? its a different way of thinking, in all aspects. and the design takes advantage of that. makes the civic look like an afterthought. > Prius cars that say, "Look at Me--I am an Environmentalist." Of course, > that is not true for all of the people that own a Prius. > Jason > > My 2002 Saturn was a casualty in the Tennessee tornadoes last Friday. > > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > think thatd be neat. and a factory sunroof would be nice too. yes- a > "loaded" economy car. theyre popular in europe. Hello, You should get the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver. According to page 65 of that magazine, the Honda Fit produces 109 Bhp @ 5800 The torque is 105 @ 4800 It has a SOHC engine The Toyota Yaris S produces 106 Bhp @6000 The torque is 103@ 4200 Both engines in the above cars are about the same size. However the Fit has a SOHC engine and the Yaris has a DOHC engine. DOHC engines are in most cases better than SOHC engines. Both engines are 91 cu. inches (1497 and 1496 cc). Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > Hello, > You should get the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > produces 106 Bhp @6000 > The torque is 103@ 4200 ooh. 3bhp and 2 ft/lb. thats barely measurable. how bout bhp/curb weight? id want a hatch, anyway. and the 2dr hatch is even lighter than the yaris sedan. > Both engines in the above cars are about the same size. > However the Fit has a SOHC engine and the Yaris has a DOHC engine. > DOHC engines are in most cases better than SOHC engines. > Both engines are 91 cu. inches (1497 and 1496 cc). the scion xA uses the same drivetrain as the yaris, has more standard features, 4 doors, and a hatch. yet it wasnt in the comparo.... what gives??????? WTF????!!!! > > Hello, > > You should get the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > features, 4 doors, and a hatch. yet it wasnt in the comparo.... what > gives??????? WTF????!!!! I believe the reason was because the article was about econocars (aka economobiles) that have NEVER been sold in America until this year or next year. It's my guess that the scion xA, Ford Focus and Chevy Cobalt were not included on the Car and Driver list because they have were sold in America last year or prior to last year. I am just guessing. I should note that the Dodge Caliber SE was included on the list. I don't know whether or not any of these cars on the list were sold in 2005 or those years prior to 2005. Do you know? I also noticed that every car on the list had an engine that was less than 122 cu. inches (1998 cc). What is the size of the engine in the scion xA? Here's the list: Dodge Caliber SE Honda Fit Sport Hyundai Accent GLS Kia Rio5 SX Nissan Versa 1.8L Suzuki Reno Toyota Yaris S SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >>> Hello, >>> You should get the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > not included on the Car and Driver list because they have were sold in > America last year or prior to last year. I am just guessing. I should note i was unaware that/if the accent, rio5, and reno are new for 2006/7. hows that for a sentence? i think they said the rio and accent were. the xA would have been a better choice, as far as it being a 4 door hatch. specs are virtually identical to the yaris. same drivetrain. only thing is the xA comes with power door locks, windows, mirrors, AC, pioneer CD/MP3 player, all standard. with 4 drs and a hatch! yaris is just sedan and 3dr. on the yaris, you have to add at least one package to get all that. > that the Dodge Caliber SE was included on the list. I don't know whether > or not any of these cars on the list were sold in 2005 or those years [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Suzuki Reno > Toyota Yaris S Thanks so much everyone for the advice. I test drove a 2004 Civic LX yesterday. The ride was smooth, but not _too_ smooth, the shifting tight, and the car didn't seem underpowered. A nice car for the price. The Fit will have to be _very_ impressive. Passed on that particular Civic, though, because my insurance company still hasn't given me an idea of what they think the old car is worth. Grrr. --Nan > Thanks so much everyone for the advice. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > --Nan If they have a Honda Civic Si--take a test ride in that car. That car is so poplular that the local Honda dealership can't keep them in stock. They sell them at quickly as they arrive on the car lot. I should have asked the salesman how many people are on the list waiting for their Honda Civic Si to arrive from the factory. I read an article indicating that Toyota has the same problem with the Prius Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. I'll be picking up my brand new Civic LX sedan this afternoon :) Test drove the Fit yesterday. Great little car, lots of space, and it had more pick-up than I expected. Handling was very good, everything was solid, and it looked much better than it did in pictures. Came very close to getting it. But since the price was so close to a new Civic, I decided to play it safe. Over the long haul the Civic seemed the better choice. While the Fit is a much more fun car, I can see myself driving the Civic for many years. Thanks again, everyone. And I'll be lurking in the newsgroup -- time to enter Hondaland :) --Nan > I'll be picking up my brand new Civic LX sedan this afternoon :) > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > --Nan --Nan, I believe that you made the best choice. The only down-side is that the MPG is better in a Fit. However, the upside is that you have an engine that has more power and a vehicle that has more space than a Fit. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > --Nan, > I believe that you made the best choice. The only down-side is that the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -- Well, the EPA says Fit: 33/38 Civic: 30/38 The mpg penalty for the Civic is quite small. Did anyone compare insurance premiums for these two cars? > > --Nan, > > I believe that you made the best choice. The only down-side is that the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Did anyone compare insurance premiums for these two cars? Thanks for your post. I did not know that the Fit and Civic got the same "highway" MPG. I have not compared the insurance premiums for those two cars. However, I was correct in my post. The MPG is better in a Fit. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > > > --Nan, > > > I believe that you made the best choice. The only down-side is that the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > better in a Fit. > Jason Yup, 3 mpg difference is equal to about $100/year for these cars. So if the Civic insurance is more than $100 less than the Fit, the annual ownership cost may be less for the Civic (assuming same maintenance, depreciation, etc.) Of course, as the EPA says, YMMV. >> --Nan, >> I believe that you made the best choice. The only down-side is that the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Did anyone compare insurance premiums for these two cars? i know the scion xB is rated as a "wagon", with lower premiums. hopefully the fit would be as well. no one rices out/races 4 door hatchbacks! >> I'll be picking up my brand new Civic LX sedan this afternoon :) >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > that has more power and a vehicle that has more space than a Fit. > Jason Actually, Jason, you're wrong on the space as well as the EPA MPG estimates. Go to www.honda.com and click on the Honda page, select the Civic, then the 5 spd. LX sedan. Finally choose the comparison link and choose the 5 spd Fit for the comparison. The various measurements are within fractions of an inch/foot (or cubic inch/foot WRT volume) comparisons. The exception is the cargo volume where the Fit beats the Civic 6 ways to Sunday. Being a squared off hatch, the Fit has 21.3 cu. ft. compared to the Civic's 12.9. With the second row of the Fit folded flat, it has over 42 cu. ft. of cargo space. Of course that's an unfair comparison since the Civic sedan cannot fold the rear seats flat and it is a pass-through limiting the total capacity. The Fit is an amazing little car. It is about $ 2.8k cheaper, 240 pounds lighter, and about 19 inches shorter, yet it compares very well to its "bigger" brother, the Civic LX. Oh, and the lb/hp ratio is not all that different: Civic 20.5/1 vs. Fit 22.3/1. The difference is made up in the gearing, one of the reasons that the Fit "suffers" a lower mpg than on might expect. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > >> I'll be picking up my brand new Civic LX sedan this afternoon :) > >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > gearing, one of the reasons that the Fit "suffers" a lower mpg than on might > expect. Kent, I am sure your are correct. I visited the local Honda dealership today and picked up the brochures re: to the Fit, Civic and Accord. I compared the statistics that were mentioned in the brochures. I also took a look at the Fit. They actually had the Fit hood open and the engine running. They were showing it off to someone that may have purchased it. If I had my choice between a new Civic and a new Fit--I would choose the Civic. The main reason would be because the Civic engine has more power than the engine in the Fit. The Fit Sport engine has 109 HP and 105 Torque. The Civic LX engine has 140 HP and 128 torque. Those are the main statistics that concern me. I love the Civic Si--that engine has 197 HP and 139 torque. Jason Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. If Honda decided to release a Hatchback version of the Civic into the N.A. market, it would probably be a death sentence for the Fit. Compared to the Civic, the Fit doesn't have any advantages, other then cargo capacity. The 2K price difference isn't enough to justify the Fit's inabiliy to perform at high speeds on the Hwy. While the Civic will be able to cruise comfortably at 100mph, the Fit would be a noicy mess at that speed and probably wouldn't have much left over to blast out of a situation, since it's already screaming along at it's limits. There is one advantages ot the Fit, I suppose the Japanese worker would appreciate the extra work vs a North American built Civic. I would like to see a home brewed, basic, Civic Hatch, like my old 98 DX Hatch that only cost 14K to purchase. Pars > Kent, > I am sure your are correct. I visited the local Honda dealership today and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Jason > Jason > If Honda decided to release a Hatchback version of the Civic into the > N.A. market, it would probably be a death sentence for the Fit. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Pars Have you driven one, Pars? Have you even sat in one? Car & Driver gave it a glowing review in a comparison test with 6 others in its class. About that 1998 hatch of yours, can it match the content of the 2007 Fit, A/C, air bags, power steering, ABS, front disk brakes, AM/FM/CD? Then there's 9-10 years of inflation to deal with. Do you regularly drive at 100 mph? If so, you're breaking the law, endangering yourself and others. The top speed of the Fit (per C&D) is 114 mph, drag limited. It can reach the century mark in 31.1 seconds, 60 in 8.7 seconds. How about your vaunted DX (stripper)? How much have you spent in aftermarket goodies for comfort and performance? The last car I felt comfortable doing 100 in was my 2000 Si, which stickered at about $19k, and believe me it had more than 5k worth of content over your 1998 DX. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > Have you driven one, Pars? Have you even sat in one? Car & Driver gave it > a glowing review in a comparison test with 6 others in its class. C&D said this about the Nissan Versa "If you're chiefly interested in commuting and errand hopping, this is the one." And pretty much that's what folks in this segment do with their cars. Someone interested in a sporty drive wouldn't buy a 109 hp car. Edmunds says a 2001 Integra Type R retails for about the same $$ as a new Fit Sport. >> Have you driven one, Pars? Have you even sat in one? Car & Driver gave >> it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > says a 2001 Integra Type R retails for about the same $$ as a new Fit > Sport. And with how many miles of wear and tear on the Integra? The Versa came in 25 points BEHIND the Fit. There's not enough difference in the prices to make that a decision point. If you want to pay $15k for a 6 or 7 year old Type R with 70,000 plus miles of likely flailing, be my guest. The Fit Sport (mostly handling, not additional hp or different gearing) beat its competition across the board. It looks like the Versa is a pretty decent car, but the Nissan most likely won't hold its value as well as the Honda. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > And with how many miles of wear and tear on the Integra? I put 190K miles on my Integra (not an R) before some idiot hit me. I can assure you, I'd have raced a Fit for its pink slip any time. But you're probably right about the Type R. In fact, a quick Auto Trader search indicates there are no Rs available in my area right now. >The Versa came in 25 points BEHIND the Fit. Yeah, I understand that. But still C&D says the Versa is the better car for mundane tasks. Frankly, I think C&D missed the boat by testing the highest trim levels rather than the lower trim levels where the bulk of the sales are going to occur. >> And with how many miles of wear and tear on the Integra? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > rather than the lower trim levels where the bulk of the sales are going > to occur. The nearest Honda dealer (Trickett) got 5 Fits in the 1st of the week, 4 Base, 1 Sport. The 1st Base went almost off the truck, the 2nd went the next day. There is a hold on the black base, leaving a grey Base and the red Sport. Eye balling them, I'd say that they're about the same size, overall, as a mid-80s early 90s hatch. The Sport gets premium sound, fog lights, a hatch spoiler, lower body flares, 15 inch alloy wheels with all-weather tires and not much more than the base. A/C, electric power steering, air bags to let, all standard. The Sport that C&D tested came in a little lower than the Versa. The sticker price at Trickett was boosted by overpriced floor mats and mud guards, Base and Sport pricing out at about 15,100 to 15,800. Oh yeah, the Base models had fabric guard added in ... all three useless IMO. If I had the money (which I don't, far from it), I'd get the Fit Sport for everyday and a Civic Si for the pure hell of it on nice days. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > And with how many miles of wear and tear on the Integra? The Versa came in > 25 points BEHIND the Fit. and the yaris came in 3rd, but that was a 4dr sedan. id LOVE to see em compare the xA and the fit. same configuration, same engine size. but the stock xA has a better stereo, standard. > > Have you driven one, Pars? Have you even sat in one? Car & Driver gave it > > a glowing review in a comparison test with 6 others in its class. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > says a 2001 Integra Type R retails for about the same $$ as a new Fit > Sport. In the Car and Driver comparison test of 7 economobiles, the Honda Fit Sport was first place and Nissan Versa was second place. Both of the cars could easily be used for commuting and errand hopping. The engine in the Nissan Versa has more power (eg HP and torque) than the engine in the Fit. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > In the Car and Driver comparison test of 7 economobiles, the > Honda Fit Sport was first place and Nissan Versa was second place. Both of > the cars could easily be used for commuting and errand hopping. The engine > in the Nissan Versa has more power (eg HP and torque) than the engine in > the Fit. > Jason then you gotta drive a nissan, fer chrissakes. at least its available with a sunroof, i think. but nissans a distinct 3rd to ME, behind honda and toyota. its maybe a little higher in quality than a mitsu/subaru/mazda. I've been to two Honda dealership and couldn't land a test drive. In the first dealership, the sales guy didn't have any on the lot, except for the one in the show room, I gave him my phone number (1 week ago) to call me when one become availabe for a test drive. He never called back. The 2nd dealership also didn't have any available. The sales guy mentioned that they had recently recieved a shipment of 20 and they were all already sold. He also mentioned that there was a 3 month wait for the car. So, looks like I'm going to have to wait until the hype dies down before I can get a test spin on the Fit. I wasn't impressed with the abilities of the 06 Civic coupe (not the Si), when compared to my current 98 Hatch, so, I'm not expecting to be impressed with the Fit handling ability or power. My bare bone 98 DX Hatch has had alot of enhancements, mostly to do with handling and interior upgrades. I haven't done any engine upgrades and I'm glad of it, since the engine is still aggressive, even after 285,000km. So, the 5K to 7K extras that I've spent on the 98 Hatch in the form of enhancement could also be added on to a base Fit, but it probably wouldn't make the Fit drive any better, since that car already gotten it's share of tweaks from the manufactor. Unless you're going to put it 2inchs from the ground, which is stupid, my old Hatch has about 6 inchs and that's already too low. , Perhaps in the Fit 100mph is dangerous, but in my Hatch, I'm totally relaxed, the engine is only reving at about 4000rpm, the car tracks perfectly straight. If there's any surprise on the road and my reaction is fast enough (which thankfully it has been in several occasions), the car will match my abilities. According to the C&D reviews the Fit is also quick on its feet, when in comes to avoidance. The only thing is, the short wheel base and simplistic rear suspension would probably cause the car to go into a spin at high speeds in extreme situations, which hasn't happened in my 98 Hatch (thankful once again). Granted, 100mph is fast, but I wouldn't call it unsafe when you factor in road conditon and the cars ability. As for breaking the law, if that was an issue, every single motorist on the road would already be behind bars. The Fits 8.6 sec to 60mpg is good. I believe the Yaris has similiar 0-60mph stats. Like wise, my old Hatch takes about 8.6sec to reach 60mpg, but that's with gigantic 1st and 2nd gears (I can do 120km/hr in 2nd gear). Once my 98 Hatch is in 3rd gear and in the power band, I'm able to pull away from the 1.5L compatitions as if their standing still. Even with all my mis-givings, I still might end up getting a Fit, because with my current job, cargo capacity and fuel economy is a priority. But, I'm going to hate having to slow down on the highway because the car's weak in that department. Pars > I've been to two Honda dealership and couldn't land a test drive. In > the first dealership, the sales guy didn't have any on the lot, except [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > priority. But, I'm going to hate having to slow down on the highway > because the car's weak in that department. You're making the assumption that it is weak in that department. If you get the Base, it might be a good idea to go for bigger but lighter wheels and tires. Maybe more speed and mpg. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA My lightweight Koenig Tuner can get me more speed (but not on top end) and improved mpg over the steel winter wheels. I wonder if they're compatible with new Fit. My Konig wheels have 4x100 bolt pattern. Pars > My lightweight Koenig Tuner can get me more speed (but not on top end) > and improved mpg over the steel winter wheels. I wonder if they're > compatible with new Fit. My Konig wheels have 4x100 bolt pattern. > > Pars The 15 inch alloys on the Sport are 4 bolt. I would guess that the 14 inch steel ones on the Base are also 4 bolt. I wonder if Tire Rack has the Fit up yet. I'll check. Later ... apparently Tire Rack doesn't have any wheels listed at this time for the 2007 Fit. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > > My lightweight Koenig Tuner can get me more speed (but not on top end) > > and improved mpg over the steel winter wheels. I wonder if they're [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'll check. Later ... apparently Tire Rack doesn't have any wheels listed > at this time for the 2007 Fit. Odds are it's probably 4x100, but I'll have to check into it some more. I'll definitly save some $$$ if I can use my old alloys. Pars > You're making the assumption that it is weak in that department. If you get > the Base, it might be a good idea to go for bigger but lighter wheels and > tires. Maybe more speed and mpg. i dunno why it didnt come with stock 15" steel wheels. regardless, an aftermarket upgrade would probably be cheaper. The base model in fact, does come with a 14" steel wheels. It's only the top of the line Sports model which comes standard with the 15 aloy. An intresting observation. The price difference between base US vs Canadian Fit is about $1k difference, while there's about $4k difference for the top-of-the-line Sport model. Go figure... Pars I finally got to take the Fit a for test drive. In fact, I drove both a 5spd and a manual back to back. Unfortunatly, My test drive in the 5spd was cut short and I never got to take either car on the highway. I believe the highway cruising ability will be the clincher (assuming cargo capacity is not an issue) when deciding between a Civic and the Fit. I came to shocking realization when test driving both the Fit manual and automatic transmission. I actually liked the automatic Fit better then the manual! which is absurd since I'm a die-hard manual junky. With the manual transmission the Fit feels cheap, but with the automatic Fit, it felt like a more substantial and better geared car. Also, the Fit's manual shifter is too far down for my reach, and lowering the seat (if that type of ajustment was possible) would mess-up the panoramic view. Even if the car was mated to a more robust tranny and engine, I would still be an awkward reach for the shifter. The fact the steering wheel is too far away doesn't realy bother me, since it works for my lax one arm curising technic and the 9/3 position is only used when needed. Now, the perfect Fit would be one that packed the Civic 1.8L engine (or similiar), some weight saving technics such as aluminum hood to compensate for the heavier engine, the on-dash shifter like the one on the old 05 Civic Si(R) and a telescopic steering wheel. It's too bad that I'm such a die hard manual driver, cause current Automatic Fit would have made for a great replacement for my old Civic Hatch. Pars > I finally got to take the Fit a for test drive. In fact, I drove both a > 5spd and a manual back to back. Unfortunatly, My test drive in the 5spd [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Pars Pars, You might try taking a test drive in one of the Civic models to determine if the gear shift is in a better location. I read a review of the Fit in several different car magazines. They said the sound level inside the car was normal at the low and medium speed (less than 55 mph). However, when they they took it up to over 70 mph--the testers stated that the sound level in the Fit was really loud--much louder than in an Accord or Civic. I believe the reason is because the Fit is much less aerodynamic than the Accord or Civic. I should note that the standard Fit does not come with a cruise control. The engine in the Civic is much more powerful than the engine in the Fit. The main advantage of the Fit would be the cargo space and great gas mileage. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. I have no complaints about the 06 Civic manual transmissions but the driver seat is too narrow for my back. After test drive in the 06 Civic Coupe, it was a welcome change to get back into my 98 Hatch. Granted, the seats in the 06 Civic are excellent for a smaller client, but they're not designed for an XXL guy. An interesting side note regarding seats, the Acura CSX, which is a re-bagged Civic, but packs the RSX's 2.0L engine (and only sells in Canada), has excellent seats for my size. If I were to get a new Civic, I would have to get it in the form of an Acura. A nice option in the CSX is the leather upgrade. In fact, I'd say the CSX with the leather option, has an interior that looks more luxurious then the Acura TSX. Aside from the small seats and the need to get the much higher priced Acura to get the right seating configuration; the death blow, that caused me to pass on the Civic is the lack of Cargo capacity. I need a Hatch and there is no longer any Civic Hatch for 06 (unless you live in Europe). The seats on the 07 Fit suited me fine. It also has a very nice view of the road and the nimble handling characteristic that's similar to the old double-wishbone Civic. The 06 Civic has very sharp and responsive steering, but lacks the nimble feel that can only be had from a lightweight car. Pars > I have no complaints about the 06 Civic manual transmissions but the > driver seat is too narrow for my back. After test drive in the 06 Civic [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Pars Pars, You are wise to make sure the vehicle that you buy is perfect for you. You should also test drive vehicles made by other car companies that you trust. For example, the economobile that came in second in the Car and Driver comparison test was the Nissan Versa 1.8SL. I don't know much about that company. I hated the Toyota economobile since the gauge cluster is mounted in the center of the dashboard. The Acura car that you mentioned would be my choice. The only draw-back would be the excessive price of Acura vehicles. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. True, since I didn't like the Fit's manual transmission setup, I should take the Versa for a test spin, but it'll depend the on incentives Nissan is offering before I jump ship and try another brand. Pars > I've been to two Honda dealership and couldn't land a test drive. In > the first dealership, the sales guy didn't have any on the lot, except [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Pars Pars, You should also consider the various Civic models. The engine in the Civics are more powerful than the engine in the Fit. They should have brochures at the dealership re: to the Civic and Fit. There are statistics (eg horsepower, torque, etc.) in the back section of the brochures. They may have their best brochures locked up. They do this at the local dealership in my town since people were taking handfuls of them instead of just one brochure per customer. The dealerships have to pay for the brochures. I had to ask one of the salesman to give me the brochures. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >> I've been to two Honda dealership and couldn't land a test drive. In >> the first dealership, the sales guy didn't have any on the lot, except [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > brochures. I had to ask one of the salesman to give me the brochures. > Jason The easy way is to go to www.honda.com and click on either the Civic sedan and choose an appropriate model (LX is the closest) and then compare to the Fit (either Base or Sport). It can be done the opposite way also. Choose the Fit and then the Civic model. It is an interesting exercise. SignatureKent Finnell From the Music City USA > The easy way is to go to www.honda.com and click on either the Civic sedan > and choose an appropriate model (LX is the closest) and then compare to the > Fit (either Base or Sport). > > It can be done the opposite way also. Choose the Fit and then the Civic > model. It is an interesting exercise. then go to www.scion.com and check out the xA. compare prices, standard features, and specs. > I've been to two Honda dealership and couldn't land a test drive. In i was offered one, but didnt feel like it. just wanted to see the car, play with the "magic seat", look at the MSRP and get a brochure > the first dealership, the sales guy didn't have any on the lot, except > for the one in the show room, I gave him my phone number (1 week ago) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > for the car. So, looks like I'm going to have to wait until the hype > dies down before I can get a test spin on the Fit. I wasn't impressed there wont be any deals on em til maybe this fall when supply meets demand. i could care less about being "first on the block" to have one. > with the abilities of the 06 Civic coupe (not the Si), when compared to > my current 98 Hatch, so, I'm not expecting to be impressed with the Fit > handling ability or power. i dont think you will. theyre all economy cars. youd need an S2000 to actually be impressed. > My bare bone 98 DX Hatch has had alot of enhancements, mostly to do > with handling and interior upgrades. I haven't done any engine upgrades [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > priority. But, I'm going to hate having to slow down on the highway > because the car's weak in that department. scion. xA. trick it out. > Pars >> If Honda decided to release a Hatchback version of the Civic into the >> N.A. market, it would probably be a death sentence for the Fit. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > bags, power steering, ABS, front disk brakes, AM/FM/CD? Then there's 9-10 > years of inflation to deal with. it comes pretty close to what i paid for mine, in 1998 when honda could do no wrong. a 2006 scion xA stickers for LESS than my 98 CX did in 1998. and it includes A/C, power windows/locks/mirrors, AM/FM/CD/MP3. > Do you regularly drive at 100 mph? If so, you're breaking the law, heh. so was the 300Z i was tailing. not tailing as in racing, per se. interstate 40 was clear, sunny, and dry and he flew past me so i took it as an invitation to open it up a bit, as well as test the GPS vs. the stock speedo. > endangering yourself and others. The top speed of the Fit (per C&D) is 114 > mph, drag limited. It can reach the century mark in 31.1 seconds, 60 in 8.7 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > at about $19k, and believe me it had more than 5k worth of content over your > 1998 DX. > If Honda decided to release a Hatchback version of the Civic into the > N.A. market, it would probably be a death sentence for the Fit. do they even make one? i guess i could check honda.co.uk, or honda.co.jp and do some research. > Compared to the Civic, the Fit doesn't have any advantages, other then > cargo capacity. The 2K price difference isn't enough to justify the > Fit's inabiliy to perform at high speeds on the Hwy. While the Civic > will be able to cruise comfortably at 100mph, the Fit would be a noicy > mess at that speed and probably wouldn't have much left over to blast > out of a situation, since it's already screaming along at it's limits. im not too sure bout that. the 1.5 isnt much smaller than my 1.6 CX and has 10 years of R&D behind it. plus all the years it was "beta tested" in europe. i touched 100+ in my CX on a trip to laughlin, NV. it took 4th gear to get that high, and i have no idea what the revs were, but the mileage (as expected) was dismal... 24mpg on that leg of the trip. i dont doubt a fit could do that as well. especially with the VTEC. i seriously doubt it would be "screaming at its limits", more like "held back by wind drag" just like my CX. > There is one advantages ot the Fit, I suppose the Japanese worker would > appreciate the extra work vs a North American built Civic. I would like > to see a home brewed, basic, Civic Hatch, like my old 98 DX Hatch that > only cost 14K to purchase. well, i still love my $14k (USD) 1998 CX, and im irked it took them so long to do another hatch. the Si does NOT count :) i hope it does well, but im not seeing the value, completely. course, i need to run the numbers on a scion xA and maybe a toyota yaris hatch. i think there are a lot of TRD and aftermarket stuff to soup up that lil 1.5VVTi > Pars > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> Jason >> Jason I believe you've got a 5spd manual in you 98 CX Hatch as do I in my 98 DX Hatch. It's strange that you'd need 4th to maintain 100mph. If I'm going up a hill and fighting the wind, I might need 4th to maintain 100mph, otherwise, I'm cruising in fifth. Since we both have the same tranny, the only mechanical difference would be AC which my car does not have. Another thing is the timing, perhaps my engine is running a little too lean since I have to put premium gas in for the summer to avoid pinging. Also,the lifetime worth of mobel-1 one probably doesn't hurt, and my engine is still runing with all its original components (except, rad, spark plug, air filter, timining belt and water pump, all the rest of the stuff under the hood has 285,000km on them). Concerning fuel consumption, since I'm rolling along on the fat 5th gear, there's not much difference between 85mph and 100mph (assuming no significant head wind). So at 100mph cruising, I can get about 550km from a tank (about 29mpg), in the summer. btw, All 98 models Hatch were built in Canada (at the Alliston plant in Ontario), but it's still this side of the sea. Pars > I believe you've got a 5spd manual in you 98 CX Hatch as do I in my 98 > DX Hatch. It's strange that you'd need 4th to maintain 100mph. If I'm > going up a hill and fighting the wind, I might need 4th to maintain > 100mph, otherwise, I'm cruising in fifth. Since we both have the same > tranny, the only mechanical difference would be AC which my car does yeah- the A/C was blasting :) > not have. Another thing is the timing, perhaps my engine is running a > little too lean since I have to put premium gas in for the summer to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > btw, All 98 models Hatch were built in Canada (at the Alliston plant in > Ontario), but it's still this side of the sea. yup, and they did a fine job! > Pars > Actually, Jason, you're wrong on the space as well as the EPA MPG estimates. > Go to www.honda.com and click on the Honda page, select the Civic, then the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > squared off hatch, the Fit has 21.3 cu. ft. compared to the Civic's 12.9. > With the second row of the Fit folded flat, it has over 42 cu. ft. of cargo USABLE cargo space. and them back seats fold DEAD flat. and they fold up, and... > space. Of course that's an unfair comparison since the Civic sedan cannot > fold the rear seats flat and it is a pass-through limiting the total > capacity. which is really funny as i laugh at the costco members trying to put a 32" tv in their civic sedan. > The Fit is an amazing little car. It is about $ 2.8k cheaper, 240 pounds > lighter, and about 19 inches shorter, yet it compares very well to its i took a good look at it, and popped the hood. the small front end and area behind the rear wheels are what makes it short. the actual cabin is huge. the engine packaging is nice and not that tight. everything seems to be stacked, and since its got a timing chain, the engines a bit narrower. > "bigger" brother, the Civic LX. Oh, and the lb/hp ratio is not all that > different: Civic 20.5/1 vs. Fit 22.3/1. The difference is made up in the > gearing, one of the reasons that the Fit "suffers" a lower mpg than on might > expect. |
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