Another $1300 to fix my '90 Civic :^(

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Ron Bauerle - 13 Apr 2006 21:41 GMT

This after putting $1000+ into it last year for a new gas tank,
radiator, brakes, and timing belt/water pump :^(

I dropped it off at the dealer for the following problems,
and here's what they said:

1. Low-pitched hum, follows engine speed. Started 3/31.
Seems to be from the alternator (replaced 7/04) or timing belt
(replaced 11/05) area. Tensioner pulley?

They say it's the alternator again, $373 for new + belts.
Don't know if the mom/pop shop that replaced it 7/04 has
a warranty (probably not for more than a year if they do :^(

2. Scraping noise from front (left?), right (rear) wheels at low speed;
front seems more noticeable on slight turns. Brakes dragging? Not a
problem? Or something worse like a wheel bearing? Been doing it for
a couple of years or so...

They say the front right calipher's frozen ($206), rear wheel cylinder's
leaking ($153), and rear shoes are separating and drums need machining
($384). I had the front brakes done last year, and you'd think Monro
would've caught the caliper :^(

3. Chattering from front on tight turns - CV joints? OK to let go for
now, or risk of catastrophic failure? Been doing it for a few years
now.

They didn't say anything about this, unless that's the front caliper...
(CV joints were replaced 10? years ago with reconditioned ones;
no boot leaks that I know of...)

4. The valve cover was supposedly leaking last year (both the garage
that changed my plugs and the dealer when they changed the timing belt
said this), and it was $100 to fix it then. I asked if the leak was
still there, the dealer now says it's the oil pan gasket and it's $171
to replace it :^(

The brake drums and caliper supposedly need to be fixed to pass (PA)
inspection (due 7/31); they tried to scare me away from non-Honda
brakes (e.g., Monro?) by saying they usually squeak...

Questions:

1. Are these legit prices for dealer repairs?
2. Can/should any of them be done by others (garage/Monro) with
non-Honda parts?
3. The big one: I had hoped to get another five years out of the car
(119k miles now) before replacing it, but if I'm going to be shelling
out
$1000/year (plus the hassle factor of taking it across town to the
dealer,
and then only when they have a loaner to spare) it's probably not worth
it

:^( When will the new Fits be out? Should I try to hold out till then,

or shell out the $1300 now and see what the next thing to go wrong is,
and when?

Ron

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Art - 14 Apr 2006 01:18 GMT

Where do you live..... meaning what is the overall condition of the body of
the car. A friend got around 250k miles out of a used Accord but it took
some money to do so in repairs. It really depends on the overall condition
of the car and engine, etc.

> This after putting $1000+ into it last year for a new gas tank,
> radiator, brakes, and timing belt/water pump :^(
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Ron

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Gordon McGrew - 14 Apr 2006 05:25 GMT

>This after putting $1000+ into it last year for a new gas tank,
>radiator, brakes, and timing belt/water pump :^(
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Seems to be from the alternator (replaced 7/04) or timing belt
>(replaced 11/05) area. Tensioner pulley?

Easy to rule the alternator in or out by running it for a minute with
the drive belt off. You can also use a stethoscope or a long tube to
(carefully) isolate the source of the sound.

>They say it's the alternator again, $373 for new + belts.
>Don't know if the mom/pop shop that replaced it 7/04 has
>a warranty (probably not for more than a year if they do :^(

Could be right. Price sounds good for a new Honda alternator
installed. I have had problems with rebuilt alternators (not on
Hondas - never had a Honda alternator fail), so I would say a
guaranteed good one is the way to go if that is what you need..

>2. Scraping noise from front (left?), right (rear) wheels at low speed;
>front seems more noticeable on slight turns. Brakes dragging? Not a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>($384). I had the front brakes done last year, and you'd think Monro
>would've caught the caliper :^(

What is Monro? If it is a chain operation then nothing would surprise
me. Now their (probable) incompetence/apathy is damaging your rotor
and pads. The price for the rear brakes sounds high. Sounds like a
routine brake job to me.

>3. Chattering from front on tight turns - CV joints? OK to let go for
>now, or risk of catastrophic failure? Been doing it for a few years
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>(CV joints were replaced 10? years ago with reconditioned ones;
>no boot leaks that I know of...)

See if the noise is still there after servicing. If it has been going
on for years and it's not getting worse, I wouldn't worry about it but
you could at least have them diagnose it if it continues.

>4. The valve cover was supposedly leaking last year (both the garage
>that changed my plugs and the dealer when they changed the timing belt
>said this), and it was $100 to fix it then. I asked if the leak was
>still there, the dealer now says it's the oil pan gasket and it's $171
>to replace it :^(

If you aren't losing huge amounts of oil, I wouldn't worry about it.

The valve cover gasket is routinely replaced (and also routinely not
replaced) during regular valve adjustments. It shouldn't cost more
than $20. More likely the real cause is excessive or uneven
tightening of the nuts when the cover was installed the last time.
(Assuming it is leaking at all.)

Leaking from the oil pan is a little more problematic but it is easy
to ignore it if it isn't severe. Oil leaks can be hard to track down
and there is a chance that after they replace the oil pan gasket they
will tell you it is a main seal or something else. If it isn't a
problem, don't fix it.

>The brake drums and caliper supposedly need to be fixed to pass (PA)
>inspection (due 7/31); they tried to scare me away from non-Honda
>brakes (e.g., Monro?) by saying they usually squeak...

This can be true. In general I have come to the conclusion that it is
best to buy the Honda part.

Questions:

>1. Are these legit prices for dealer repairs?
>2. Can/should any of them be done by others (garage/Monro) with
>non-Honda parts?

I would consider buying the Honda parts and finding a good independent
mechanic to install them. A good independent mechanic will do as good
or better a job as the dealership and save you some money, though not
a huge amount.

>3. The big one: I had hoped to get another five years out of the car
>(119k miles now) before replacing it, but if I'm going to be shelling
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>or shell out the $1300 now and see what the next thing to go wrong is,
>and when?

I think the main problem you have had is shoddy repairs at Munro. You
are now paying to fix their mistakes.

There is a big element of chance in an old car such as this but
generally it is going to be much cheaper than a new car. That new Fit
will cost you at least $600 per year in interest alone. Add in
depreciation, increased insurance cost and it is almost sure to cost
more than your 1990. Of course, you will be driving a new car...

For now, I would just fix the brakes and start looking for an
independent mechanic.

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jim beam - 14 Apr 2006 16:41 GMT

> This after putting $1000+ into it last year for a new gas tank,
> radiator, brakes, and timing belt/water pump :^(
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Ron

in general ron, it sounds like you need to find another repair shop.
find an independent honda specialist.

1. generally, honda alternators are /very/ reliable, so while this one
could have failed again, it's unlikely, and can be easily tested as per
gordon's post. if it's a tensioner, it really should have been caught
on belt replacement.

2. my 89 civic has 18mm thick front disks, the 90 has 20mm. what i've
found is that most new aftermarket disks are 20mm, and while the 18mm
caliper fits, it /just/ scrapes. your 90 shouldn't be 18mm, but if at
some point in the past, you had reconditioned ones fitted, they could be
the wrong ones. or it could be something real simple like a bent splash
guard. either way, if the current shop don't know what they're doing,
find somewhere new.

frozen calipers are easy to test. replacements are under $100. rear
cylinders considerably less. drums rarely have fatal problems unless
it's rust.

3. new drive shafts needed. cheapo ones are under $100 each.

4. the gasket is <$20. labor is less than 30 mins.

bottom line, these guys seem too happy to spend your money to me. get
some second or third opinions.

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Gordon McGrew - 14 Apr 2006 18:57 GMT

>1. generally, honda alternators are /very/ reliable, so while this one
>could have failed again, it's unlikely, and can be easily tested as per
>gordon's post.

Another trick is to have a friend sit in the car while you listen with
or without the stethoscope. Start with everything off, then have your
friend add as much electrical load as possible (headlights, blower,
rear defroster, brake lights, cig lighter) as quickly as possible. If
it is the alternator making the noise, there is a good chance that you
will hear a big change in the noise.

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