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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2006Greetings and Camry Hybrid
I've lurked around this group for a while, and have found it very interesting and useful. Thanks to all those who've left helpful info in the archives. And thanks to Tegger for maintaining a worthwhile FAQ. My DIY ambitions don't extend byond changing my oil, PCV and air filter, but I know enough to keep my '96 Accord LX AT in tip-top shape. I had the timing belt and cracking CV boots replaced at 97,000 miles - all other upkeep according to schedule. I'm at 102,000 now, and the car runs like new, especially with a new set of Potenzas and three coats of Klasse sealant glaze. I fully expect it to continue to run (and be fun to drive) until I'm ready for a new car - when some lucky buyer inherits my baby. So I'm definitely a Honda fan. I love the reliability, attention to detail, ergonomics and sprightly drive. But right now I'm thinking the unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate it's hybrid strategy. I don't plan to get a new car until probably 2008, when I'm at about 150,000-200,000 on the LX. But if gas prices are still ~3.00/gallon or more when I do, mid-size, economical hybrids will be on my short list. The new Camry hybrid, with a combined (electric and gas) 192 bhp, realistic (not EPA) mid-30's mileage city and highway and normal, non-funky-hybid design, priced below the top-of-the-line V-6 model, seems to be a formidable combination. The Accord Hybrid is no doubt an impressive machine. It has power and luxury to spare, but doesn't offer value or economy the way the Camry hybrid does. So we'll see what happens in 2008. Unless I'm missing something about Honda's hybrid strategy, the next generation Accord will offer a mid-size option with real economy. If not, I think the sales figures we will see from the Camry hybrid will show a huge missed opportunity for Honda. It seems to me that a 4 cylinder, ~160hp Accord EX hybrid in the mid to upper 30 mpg range would command a good chunk of the hybrid market. It would definitely be at the top of my list. But I've been wrong before. > But right now I'm thinking the > unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate > it's hybrid strategy. When you can go out and buy a used Accord EX and get 35mpg on the freeway in summer with the A/C on, you re-think the whole hybrid thing. And what about safety? From what I've seen, there's no question that Honda is one of the safest, if not the safest, cars on the road. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop- 1CD376.21332824042006@nntp1.usenetserver.com: >> But right now I'm thinking the >> unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate >> it's hybrid strategy. > > When you can go out and buy a used Accord EX and get 35mpg on the > freeway in summer with the A/C on, you re-think the whole hybrid thing. Wife and I saw a Prius on a dealer's lot last week. Going by the sticker in the window, we determined that if she were to drive a Prius the way she drives her Tercel right now, it would take fifteen years of gas savings to recoup the cost of a new Prius over a new Corolla, even when disregarding financing costs Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function. Exactly so. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop- C1B61A.22130424042006@nntp1.usenetserver.com: >> Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function. > > Exactly so. What are also bought as a political statement are those "Smart" cars available in Canada. Those are some expensive phone booths. You could never save enough on gas to make up for the inflated purchase price. They're always bought by affluent-looking people in their late-40s or older. And in spite of that, Mercedes loses money on each one sold. Stupid. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop- > C1B61A.22130424042006@nntp1.usenetserver.com: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What are also bought as a political statement are those "Smart" cars > available in Canada. Those are some expensive phone booths. Nope. Smart have the right idea. The average number of seats being occupied in most major cities around the world is 1.2. Smart give you 2.0. What is the point in having a car with 5.0 seats if for 90% of the time only one person sits in it? That's the ethos behind the Smart. You need to think outside your own nation. > You could never save enough on gas to make up for the inflated purchase > price. Yes you absolutely can. Depends on what you're comparing it with and what you need. Also depends on the fuel price. When the price of fuel quadruples, it's amazing how people can suddenly make compromises. > They're always bought by affluent-looking people in their late-40s > or older. Maybe in your neck of the woods, but you're dismissing most of the point. > And in spite of that, Mercedes loses money on each one sold. You cite this as though it's a bad thing, though? > Stupid. SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com >> Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function. > > Exactly so. No. SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop- > 1CD376.21332824042006@nntp1.usenetserver.com: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function. You sound like you have something hard and sharp up your butt. You're forgetting some key points. One is that not everybody drives the car like your wife drives her. The other is that you assume you'll always be able to get fuel. Finally, you're assuming hybrid vehicles are going to remain slightly expensive. Their relevance to your own situation may vary in each case, but what if... oooh... fuel quadruples in price? Would the car pay for itself in three years then? But regardless, from the sounds of it your wife does a pretty limited mileage? Then a car is the *last* thing she needs. Walk. Get the bus. Get the train. Use a push bike. SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > > But right now I'm thinking the > > unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate > > it's hybrid strategy. > > When you can go out and buy a used Accord EX and get 35mpg on the > freeway in summer with the A/C on, you re-think the whole hybrid thing. What you say is true but you are not telling the whole story. Toyota Hybrids get their best mpg in town, not on the highway. So if the OP uses his car in a way that takes best advantage of the Hybrid Synergy Drive he can save $$ at the gas pump. The Camry Hybrid lists for $26K, several thousands more than a comparable I4 Camry (which gets as good mpg as an Accord) but the potential is there for a $500/year savings in fuel. Not to mention any tax or HOV advantages. Bottom line, Honda's hybrid assist is simple but fails to deliver the advantages of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive. If you drive in town, a Toyota hybrid could save you money over the long haul. If most of your miles are on the highway, hybrids can't deliver the goods unless you drive real slow - see AuotWeek's article on their day trip comparing a Jeep SUV, Corvette, Accord Hybrid, Prius and Jetta TDI. (Yes, the Jetta got the best $$/mile by a wide margin.) > And what about safety? From what I've seen, there's no question that > Honda is one of the safest, if not the safest, cars on the road. You're on thin ice here. Honda is safe but no safer than Toyota. In fact, the 2007 Camry has safety features not available on the Accord. Still, I'd rather be in a Mercedes S-class if I had the choice. >> And what about safety? From what I've seen, there's no question that >> Honda is one of the safest, if not the safest, cars on the road. > > You're on thin ice here. Honda is safe but no safer than Toyota. In > fact, the 2007 Camry has safety features not available on the Accord. > Still, I'd rather be in a Mercedes S-class if I had the choice. Actually I would rather NOT be in an accident in a Ford Pinto than in an accident in ANY car. >> But right now I'm thinking the >> unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate >> it's hybrid strategy. > > When you can go out and buy a used Accord EX and get 35mpg on the > freeway in summer with the A/C on, you re-think the whole hybrid thing. Hmm. Perhaps. Hybrid technology comes into its own under certain conditions, and the motorway isn't one of them. > And what about safety? From what I've seen, there's no question that > Honda is one of the safest, if not the safest, cars on the road. Thing is about safety is the number of gadgets doesn't necessarily reflect the safety of it all. SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > I've lurked around this group for a while, and have found it very > interesting and useful. Thanks to all those who've left helpful info in [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > market. It would definitely be at the top of my list. But I've been > wrong before. You may have to refresh my memory, but the hybrid Accord is a V6 isn't it? There are two things that impress me most about the Prius. No, no, three. One is how bloody clever Toyota are. Two is how much squirt the combined engines have in the performance stakes. Three, how efficient it is. But in this case, do you *need* the Accord? In my ever so humble opinion :) people riding in the back are freeloaders and can put up with less room... so what about the Civic? SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > You may have to refresh my memory, but the hybrid Accord is a V6 isn't it? Sometimes a V-6, sometimes a "3" with some excess weight. ;-) > But in this case, do you *need* the Accord? In my ever so humble opinion > :) people riding in the back are freeloaders and can put up with less > room... so what about the Civic? That would be my question about all of the recent hybrids. They are back into a horsepower race, not an MPG race. I read an article that said that the "green" market had been saturated. All of the people inclined to buy an Insight bought them long ago. The Civic and the Prius can be used by normal people, but that market has been saturated as well, so along come the vehicles where you get to say you're green while peeling rubber in an SUV. Is the Camry hybrid about better MPG, or more power? Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5 > The new Camry hybrid, with a combined (electric and gas) 192 bhp, 192 HP? Why would you want that, if your goal is economy? > non-funky-hybid design, I'm not sure what "funky" means in this context. The Toyota would be the space age variety, a completely hybrid design. The Honda system is far simpler and more elegant, easily fitted to any existing vehicle. I don't see that as funky. I don't agree with fitting the Accord Hybrid with a V-6 for more power, instead of a 4 for more MPG, but that's where the hybrid market is headed. > So we'll see what happens in 2008. Unless I'm missing something about If it's another couple of years before your 12 year old car has 120,000 miles on it, then a hybrid is not about saving gas money. I think you need to hit 100,000 miles before the hybrid pays off, and if that's going to be 10 years, you could do something else with the money. > Honda. It seems to me that a 4 cylinder, ~160hp Accord EX hybrid in the > mid to upper 30 mpg range would command a good chunk of the hybrid > market. It would definitely be at the top of my list. But I've been > wrong before. I don't know. The V-6 hybrid production is being cut, which might indicate an I-4 in the future, or nothing. Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5 |
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