Fr. Lower Inbd Control Arm Bolts (91 Civic)

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Elle - 30 Apr 2006 02:36 GMT

Has anyone had success freeing these without shearing off
the bolt head?

I PB Blastered what I could, then I put some torque on the
bolt head this afternoon. I didn't have a good angle and
didn't want to push it just yet.

The nut on the back side of the bolt appears to be welded to
the frame. I don't want to bust the nut just yet, because of
experience with doing this on one of the rear control arms.

I am supporting the car at the usual side jacking points
with two jackstands. Might I get an advantage freeing these
bolts supporting the engine (via a jack, some blocks of wood
pushing up on the oil pan)? I'm thinking the weight of the
engine is still acting at least partly on the bushing and
bolt.

If the heads are likely to shear off, I'm thinking of
running it to my favorite import shop and having them
replace them. My tool collection is just too amateurish to
go at this effectively (based on experience with my rear
control arm bolts), and I sure don't like the tight space
under which I must work for these ones.

The front lower outboard control arm bolts came off easily.

This contrasts with the rear lower control arms, where the
inbds came off pretty easily, while I sheared off the heads
of the outboard ones.

Update on my other suspension renovation efforts:
Team Honda (= cheapesthondaparts.com) in Colorado came
through, though it might be because I called them twice in
eight days to see why my order wasn't being tracked online
per their web site's description. I installed their brand
new front suspension springs and stabilizer bar links and
bushings yesterday. The Harbor Freight Spring Compressor
tool gets easier to use every time, as I learn its
idiosyncrasies. The old springs, when relaxed, were a little
longer than the new ones (relaxed) by about one-quarter
inch. OTOH, the new springs raised the car's height around
1/2-inch. The car is still not level. I continue to think
it's a bushing problem. Today's effort was more, slow
progress towards possibly changing the bushings out. If I
can get over the control arm bolt hurdle, next I'll purchase
the ball joint separator tool previously discussed, separate
the joints, and inspect.

Oh, discovered a badly torn boot where the gear shift rod
beneath the car meets the transaxle housing. Doesn't look
too bad to replace. Nor does it seem too critical.

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Eric - 30 Apr 2006 04:05 GMT

> Has anyone had success freeing these without shearing off
> the bolt head?

Yes.

> I PB Blastered what I could, then I put some torque on the
> bolt head this afternoon. I didn't have a good angle and
> didn't want to push it just yet.

Have you tried a short breaker bar, such as an 18" long 1/2" drive?

> The nut on the back side of the bolt appears to be welded to
> the frame. I don't want to bust the nut just yet, because of
> experience with doing this on one of the rear control arms.

Correct, it's a captive nut. That should be one of the points where you're
spraying the PB Blaster. Also try to get some on the bolt shaft where it
goes through the bushing.

> I am supporting the car at the usual side jacking points
> with two jackstands. Might I get an advantage freeing these
> bolts supporting the engine (via a jack, some blocks of wood
> pushing up on the oil pan)? I'm thinking the weight of the
> engine is still acting at least partly on the bushing and
> bolt.

I don't think there will be any benefit from jacking up the car via the
engine. Moreover, you'll be putting quite a bit of strain on the motor
mounts as well as the oil pan.

You could always try tapping on the face of the bolt head with a brass punch
or brass hammer. This may help to loosen it and shouldn't damage the head
too much.

Once you get the bolts free, apply some antiseize compound to the bolt shank
as well as the threads. I like to use the copper based compound but I'm
sure that opinions will vary on this point.

Eric

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Elle - 30 Apr 2006 05:01 GMT

> Elle wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone had success freeing these without shearing off
>> the bolt head?
>
> Yes.

Great. That helps to know.

>> I PB Blastered what I could, then I put some torque on
>> the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Have you tried a short breaker bar, such as an 18" long
> 1/2" drive?

I was trying to squeeze in my 2-foot long, 1/2-inch drive
today but found I needed more height. I'm going to drive my
car onto my rhino ramps this week and try again.

> Correct, it's a captive nut. That should be one of the
> points where you're
> spraying the PB Blaster. Also try to get some on the bolt
> shaft where it
> goes through the bushing.

I was holding off on spraying into the bushing area until I
was sure I was going to try to replace the control arm
bushings this year.

But I guess the PB Blaster really couldn't do any more
damage to these 16-year-old, northern U.S. driven, bushings.

> I don't think there will be any benefit from jacking up
> the car via the
> engine. Moreover, you'll be putting quite a bit of strain
> on the motor
> mounts as well as the oil pan.

Okay.

> You could always try tapping on the face of the bolt head
> with a brass punch
> or brass hammer. This may help to loosen it and shouldn't
> damage the head
> too much.

I understand. I am a believer in vibrations helping knock
free bolts from at least nuts. If it's frozen to the
bushing, though... Worth a try, for sure, anyway.

> Once you get the bolts free, apply some antiseize compound
> to the bolt shank
> as well as the threads. I like to use the copper based
> compound but I'm
> sure that opinions will vary on this point.

I have both right now. Will go for the copper with at least
the inbd bolts.

Thanks again for your assistance, Eric. If I can get the
bolts free, and then figure out what to do about actually
removing the old bushings (buy a press or find a shop), and
then get them all replaced, it will be a real coup. (And not
totally for fun: I think my uneven tire wear in the right
front is surely not being helped by these beat up bushings.)

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Elle - 03 May 2006 00:34 GMT

(91 Civic LX, 176k miles, rebuilding suspension, with an eye
to replacing control arm bushings in particular.)

Yesterday I got the pass. side bolt free. Putting the front
of the car on my rhino ramps helped; it bought me a lot more
space to apply lever arm. I applied PB Blaster as best I
could to both ends, especially the threaded one, and in the
bushing area as accessible. I used an 18-inch (not 2-foot)
breaker bar with a 1-foot extension. A six-sided, high
quality 14 mm socket is a must. (Destroyed one cheap-o
six-sided socket in the process, but not with any
catastrophic consequences to property or body.) The bolt
didn't "break" free, loudly and suddenly, as some rusted
bolts tend to. It came free very slowly, such that I thought
I was in fact shearing the head off. But no, I checked the
other end, and the bolt was moving. I tapped on both ends as
best I could, often, too, to help free it. After one turn or
so, I put a 14-mm combination wrench (closed end) on the
bolt, doubled it up with my 15 mm combination wrench to get
more lever arm, and unscrewed the bolt until its end was
flush with the fixed nut. It was very difficult the whole
time; pretty hard on the arms, even using pipe etc.
extensions. I sprayed more PB Blaster into the now exposed
threads of the nut. Pushed some anti-seize in, and
re-tightened it. I didn't want to take the bolt out all the
way, because I thought it possible a part of the car would
collapse.

The driver's side bolt had the disadvantage of having the
oil pan in the way, so I couldn't use the 18-inch breaker
bar. Eventually I just used the roughly six-inch long 14-mm
combination wrench (closed end) and a scissors jack (resting
on some plywood) on its end, tapping on the combination
wrench throughout to ensure it stayed in place 'round the
bolt. I shot some spray paint at the bolt end this time to
make it easier to see the bolt moving. It too came free very
slowly, but surely. The scissors jack wasn't resisting being
raised all that much, so I didn't feel it was unsafe, though
of course I took precautions (safety glasses; thick leather
gloves at one point; a board between me and the setup for
awhile). After getting a revolution out of the bolt, I did
the rest by hand, hanging onto a sturdy part of the exhaust
pipe at times for leverage.

Didn't even bother torque-wrenching everything afterwards.
From experience I feel pretty confident I applied over 43
ft-lbs (the spec for these bolts).

Tomorrow I hope to narrow down my ball joint lifter tool
choices (based on counsel here) and possibly order one.

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Michael Pardee - 03 May 2006 02:45 GMT

> (91 Civic LX, 176k miles, rebuilding suspension, with an eye to replacing
> control arm bushings in particular.)
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> Tomorrow I hope to narrow down my ball joint lifter tool choices (based on
> counsel here) and possibly order one.

Take a relaxation break tonight - you've earned it! Tooth and nail
mechanics, ya gotta hate it.

Mike

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