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Car Forum / Honda Cars / June 2006Quick Change Oil Fiasco
A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup - popped the hood and oil was leaking out of his just changed oil filter. When he got the filter off and replaced - it was damages - holes punched into the sides of the filter. He went to the quick change place and asked the manager to see the tool they used to change filters - the tool hand slots which gripped the sides of the filter and the ape putting on the filter twisted it hard enough to cut into the filter body causing the oil leak. Posted this cause it is a new low for quick oil change idiots - people who go to these places to get their oil changed are taking huge risks. Even on my honda accord it takes less than 10 minutes to change the oil and filter - have a local garage who is really happy to see my 10 gallons of used oil in midwinter - lots of these guys have oil heaters to heat their garage - saves hundreds every month. > A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he > noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > gallons of used oil in midwinter - lots of these guys have oil heaters > to heat their garage - saves hundreds every month. using old motor oil for heating is not a smart thing to do. it contains lead from bearings, neuro-toxic organics and a host of other contaminants it picks up from operation. sure, the user will notice nothing immediately, but they're still there and the effects are cumulative. an interesting way to compete for a darwin award though. > > A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he > > noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > nothing immediately, but they're still there and the effects are > cumulative. an interesting way to compete for a darwin award though. My buddies in this garage have drank too much of your namesake and it's cousins to care much about air pollution - they are also chain smokers - personally burning used motor oil makes sense - particularly when you can save $1K per month on gas bills. Most every garage around here does that - you have to pay some guy with a govt approved truck and license to haul off the hazardous waste AKA used motor oil. Hmm let's see if I burn it I save $1K/month - if I have it hauled off I pay also - no brainer. > > > A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he > > > noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > see if I burn it I save $1K/month - if I have it hauled off I pay also > - no brainer. Those heaters generally vent off combustion gasses to chimneys etc. just like a normal #2 fuel oil burner. Extensively used in New England (my roots) and the smart way for recycling waste products that actually "pay" the user.. JT > using old motor oil for heating is not a smart thing to do. it contains > lead from bearings, neuro-toxic organics and a host of other > contaminants it picks up from operation. sure, the user will notice > nothing immediately, but they're still there and the effects are > cumulative. an interesting way to compete for a darwin award though. I was thinking that the hot air is supposed to vent out and the heat from the hot pipe is supposed to warm the area. But it's still bad for air pollultion. > have a local garage who is really happy to see my 10 > gallons of used oil in midwinter - lots of these guys have oil heaters > to heat their garage - saves hundreds every month. Those are really popular up here in Ontario Canada. Saves a fortune on heating oil. And since you're in WI, you know what kind of weather we get...eight months of winter, four months of bad skiing.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > > have a local garage who is really happy to see my 10 > > gallons of used oil in midwinter - lots of these guys have oil heaters [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > TeGGeR® And that's why I reside in Texas. I don't like heat but I don't like cold a whole lot more... JT >A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his >driveway when he [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > cut into the > filter body causing the oil leak. It sounds like the "ape" was using what I think is colloquially called the "Crusher." It's //only// for removing filters that will not come off with an ordinary oil filter wrench. Very effective at that. But good lord, using the Crusher to install a new oil filter? Big mistake, as you found. > Posted this cause it is a new low for quick oil change > idiots - people > who go to these places to get their oil changed are taking > huge risks. I think consumers everywhere should understand that the least experienced apprentice/technician is often the one changing one's oil. One should always be vigilant after an oil change done anywhere. I had Sears do an oil change twenty years ago, and the kid technician didn't scrape off the old oil filter gasket. This yielded a sort of double gasket after the new filter was installed. Of course it did not seal properly. Five miles down the //highway//, the oil pressure light came on. I pull over. Oil is all over the ground. Called Sears. They towed it back and re-did the oil change correctly. Fortunately I knew enough to stop the engine. > It sounds like the "ape" was using what I think is > colloquially called the "Crusher." Anybody remember "Ravishing Ronald"? :) SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ the kid technician didn't scrape off > the old oil filter gasket. This yielded a sort of double > gasket after the new filter was installed. Of course it did > not seal properly. Five miles down the //highway//, the oil > pressure light came on. I pull over. Oil is all over the > ground. Called Sears. They towed it back and re-did the oil > change correctly. I know of a case where the "double gasket" simply blew out while the engine was at very high revs. Destroyed the engine. Dealer had to replace after the owner complained to the state motor vehicle commission as a "lemon law" matter. > the kid technician didn't scrape off >> the old oil filter gasket. This yielded a sort of double >> gasket after the new filter was installed. Of course it did >> not seal properly. Five miles down the //highway//, the oil >> pressure light came on. I pull over. Oil is all over the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > replace after the owner complained to the state motor vehicle > commission as a "lemon law" matter. That's what got me into the mess I'm in. My excuse is that I was not up to speed recovering from shoulder and eye surgery, and I'm stickin' to it. Didn't notice the old gasket still on the block EVEN after it felt funny when I screwed the new filter on. Then my honey was on her way to work and drove it a wee bit too long after HER oil light came on. Ended up shearing the key on the cam pulley. The heat generated de-tempered the end of the cam shaft and it came off with the pulley. I had already bought a replacement motor before we found that the rest of the motor was OK. I figured it would be less complicated to just replace the head rather than the cam. The good news? I have a TON of spare parts. Anybody with a comparable motor needing parts let me know. It's a 2000 2.3 VTEC. werd... doesn't those used oil furnaces have special filters to catch those contaminants before it goes out the exhaust? if they have it for home use/ i'd get one for the garage... Signaturericebike http://www.automotiveforums.com > werd... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > ricebike I think that the only effective "filter" would be catalytic in nature but would not work well in this case due to the metallic particles in waste oil and other possible contaminants. Considering how many of these units (relatively) are in use, I don't think that they contribute substantially to the detriment of air quality. And yes, you can get one for home use but they are quite pricey... JT > werd... > > doesn't those used oil furnaces have special filters to catch those > contaminants before it goes out the exhaust? Nope. Straight out the pipe. They pollute less overall than a wood or coal- burning stove. > if they have it for home use/ i'd get one for the garage... They do. Garage supply shops sell them. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > doesn't those used oil furnaces have special filters to catch those > contaminants before it goes out the exhaust? > if they have it for home use/ i'd get one for the garage... http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_586_586 $2199 for 120,000 BTU. That's probably not "home use". ;-) I recall the local garage having a 55 gallon drum on its side, with a layer of sand in the bottom. Waste oil dripped into the sand from a crimped piece of copper tubing. That burned a slow flame. The whole drum was hot. There was a 4" vent pipe attached to the drum. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html $36.14, 21,000 BTU, using an old electric water heater. Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5 > > doesn't those used oil furnaces have special filters to catch those > > contaminants before it goes out the exhaust? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html > $36.14, 21,000 BTU, using an old electric water heater. The problem with this design is that it doesn't have a safety valve, to shut off the oil flow in the event that the flame goes out. Where I live there are seasonal winds, March usually, that are strong enough to suck the pilot light out on my gas furnace and parlor stove. This is going down a two story brick chimney too. This stove is basically the equivalent of those gravity fed kerosene space heaters, that used to be all over the Northeast U. S. of A. Most of them were replaced after the burners rusted out, but a good number were responsible for houses burning down, trailers exploding, suffocation, third degree burns and other mayhem. There aren't that many of these Mother Earth stoves, not nearly as many as there were kerosene fed space heaters in this country. That and the laws of statistics are the only things explaining why no one has been blown off the face of the planet with one. Do you really want to be the first? No matter how hot that flame looks, it can go out. People didn't think that gravity feed kerosene space heaters could go out either. Many suffered an excessive flow of oil, that simply drowned the flame. Think about it. It needs an overheat cutoff too. Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > statistics are the only things explaining why no one has been blown off the > face of the planet with one. Do you really want to be the first? No matter Blown off the face of the earth by an extinguished flame, and a continuing flow of 1GPM of oil? A mess perhaps, but where's the explosion? Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5 > > statistics are the only things explaining why no one has been blown > > off the face of the planet with one. Do you really want to be the first? > > No matter > > Blown off the face of the earth by an extinguished flame, and a > continuing flow of 1GPM of oil? A mess perhaps, but where's > the explosion? Another one who doesn't believe in statistics. This is all unlikely, but tell that to one of the families that was incinerated, suffocated or blown to kingdom come in the northeast, during the fifties, by an old pot burner stove. Unlikely is not the same as "does not happen". Imagine that the oil valve controlling 1 gpm is somehow disturbed, enough to deliver, say, 2 gpm. This has the eventual effect of drowning the fire, while the oil still keeps dripping. Everyone is asleep, and 12 gallons goes all over the furnace room, living room, or kitchen while the family enjoys six hours of well-deserved sleep. A gas pilot light, other wood or oil source of heat, electric spark, or anything really can ignite it. If it happens during the first hour or so, while the burner is still hot, you are dealing with a roomful of flammable oil vapor, something more sinister than a "mess". It needs a high temperature cutoff, too, to shut off the oil flow in case the room is engulfed in flames. That is a little easier to design than the shutoff for the flame going out. I didn't see either in the Mother Earth plans. There is more than one reason that the commercial burner costs more than $36. Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > Blown off the face of the earth by an extinguished flame, and a > > continuing flow of 1GPM of oil? A mess perhaps, but where's > > the explosion? > Everyone is asleep, and 12 gallons goes all over the furnace > room, living room, or kitchen while the family enjoys six hours of > well-deserved sleep. A gas pilot light, other wood or oil source of heat, > electric spark, or anything really can ignite it. If it happens during the > first hour or so, while the burner is still hot, you are dealing with a > roomful of flammable oil vapor, something more sinister than a "mess". I asked where the explosion would come from. I didn't think of used motor oil as being explosively ignitable in the same sense as other fuels, but I'll take your word for it. I thought that was one of the attractions of waste oil, or the diesel heater that I used to have at home, gravity fed from an above ground tank outside. Of course there were a lot of dangerous things done in the past, and the statistics are what let people feel safe enough to keep doing it. Or maybe the cost causes them to put up with the danger. A guy I know has no qualms about extinguishing a cigarette in an open pan of gasoline... he hasn't blown up yet, so that must be safe... ;-) Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5 "I recall the local garage having a 55 gallon drum on its side, with a layer of sand in the bottom. Waste oil dripped into the sand from a crimped piece of copper tubing. That burned a slow flame. The whole drum was hot. There was a 4" vent pipe attached to the drum." Really old oil stoves were called "pot burners" cause the oil dripped into a pot like container in the middle of the stove and burned. Supposedly very efficient - nice to hear some enterprising mechanics have come up with this design. Way cheaper than burning natural or propane gas. > Posted this cause it is a new low for quick oil change idiots - people > who go to these places to get their oil changed are taking huge risks. > Even on my honda accord it takes less than 10 minutes to change the oil > and filter - have a local garage who is really happy to see my 10 > gallons of used oil in midwinter - lots of these guys have oil heaters > to heat their garage - saves hundreds every month. filters should only be hand-tight. ive NEVER used a wrench to tighten a filter, only to remove one. >> Posted this cause it is a new low for quick oil change idiots - people >> who go to these places to get their oil changed are taking huge risks. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > filters should only be hand-tight. OEM should be tightened to 8-10 ft-lbs. Hand-tight may be OK in warm climates, but it's not sufficient in places with cold winters. With the previous filter design, Honda had problems with leakage from garages that didn't tighten the filters properly. Those required 15 ft-lbs of torque, which was hard to generate without a wrench. > ive NEVER used a wrench to tighten a > filter, only to remove one. I use a torque wrench with mine. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he >noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >gallons of used oil in midwinter - lots of these guys have oil heaters >to heat their garage - saves hundreds every month. My mechanic sells it to a recycler for $0.50 per gallon. Think about that the next time you get a charge for "environmental fee" on your service bill. > >A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he > >noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > that the next time you get a charge for "environmental fee" on your > service bill. A lot of smaller shops have to pay to have the stuff removed. I know that this is the case in Austin, TX. In fact, it's one of Safety Kleen's sources of income... JT >> >A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he >> >noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >JT Well maybe, but this guy is just himself and two or three mechanics/assistants. It is hardly a big operation. >>A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he >>noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > that the next time you get a charge for "environmental fee" on your > service bill. Here in BC, the gov't adds an "enviromental levy" on NEW goods like oil, car batteries, etc. It may be beyond the shop's control. >>>A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he >>>noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Here in BC, the gov't adds an "enviromental levy" on NEW goods like oil, >car batteries, etc. It may be beyond the shop's control. Well, my independent mechanic doesn't add a charge to my bill for it so it isn't required by law. It may cost him money to comply with various environmental laws but it also costs him money for lights and water and those aren't add-on items on the bill either. A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when h noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford picku - popped the hood and oil was leaking out of his just changed oi filter. When he got the filter off and replaced - it was damages holes punched into the sides of the filter. He went to the quic change place and asked the manager to see the tool they used to chang filters - the tool hand slots which gripped the sides of the filter an the ape putting on the filter twisted it hard enough to cut into th filter body causing the oil leak Posted this cause it is a new low for quick oil change idiots - peopl who go to these places to get their oil changed are taking huge risks Even on my honda accord it takes less than 10 minutes to change the oi and filter - have a local garage who is really happy to see my 1 gallons of used oil in midwinter - lots of these guys have oil heater to heat their garage - saves hundreds every month butch i do all my maintanace my self dont no why anyone woul bring there vehicle to a quick lube place for something thats so eas to do like an oil & filter change youreself? and not to mention not onl the goof ball messing things up! but also running the risk of getting "ripped off" when the time comes to pay up! i recently stumbled across this interesting article and video to share with you al www.nbc4.tv/investigations/9265933/detail.htm -- johnin > A couple of days ago a friend was backing out of his driveway when he > noticed a large puddle of oil. He stopped the vehicle - a Ford pickup [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the ape putting on the filter twisted it hard enough to cut into the > filter body causing the oil leak. That's pretty good, considering most cars recommend installing a new oil filter hand-tight only! Yikes! I would question why they use a tool to mount the filter. I've been hand tightening filters for many years, and hundreds of thousands of miles, with no problems. Hand tightening also means you can loosen the filter by hand when the time comes to change the oil. -------------- Alex |
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