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Car Forum / Honda Cars / June 2006EW1 and D15A2 engines - differences in heads?
Hi All- I have an 87 Honda civic 4 door sedan 5-speed that has been sitting at my brothers place for at least 6 years now. It broke the camshaft due to low oil (completely my fault) and wasted the camshaft journals in the head. I bought an 87 head from a junk yard - D15A2 - and had a valve job done on it. I was in the process of re-installing the head this week when I noticed something I was not aware of. I was checking the engine block ID and noticed it is an EW1 block - NOT a D15A2 which shows on the engine tag just above and to the left of the radiator. It seems someone had replace the original engine with an older EW1 engine before I bought the car. I have finished installing the head and connected Intake and exhaust manifolds, and all other devices needed. It starts right up and revs to approx 2500 RPM then immediately shuts down. If you "feather" the gas it will stay running (although very rough), and immediately dies if you let off the gas. I also get an occasional backfire. I have checked all vaccum hoses and lines 3 or 4 times. I have blocked off all of the main manifold ports to eliminate manifold vacuum leaks. I have made sure the valves are adjusted correctly and that the camshaft pulley marks are where they should be at TDC. I just cant seem to pinpoint the problem. I am now wondering if there is a difference in the heads between a EW1 and D15A2 engine that would explain my problem. I bought the D15A2 head and camshaft from an 87 manual transmission Civic - could there be a difference in camshaft specs between an EW1 and D15A2 engine. I am not sure what year the EW1 engine is from but I have the serial number in case there is a way to cross reference engine numbers to years. Any ideas? Tom Site http://www.superhonda.com/tech/honda_engine_codes.html says the D15a2 goes with the Honda CRX HF (Carbed) 1984-1987 Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_E_engine says the EW1 was used on a.. 1984-1985 Honda Civic/CRX DX (unlabeled) b.. 1984-1986 Honda Civic http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1301391 suggests different. Looking up the camshafts and cylinder heads for these models at hondaautomotiveparts.com unfortunately suggests the EW1 and D15A2 have different heads and camshafts. That's just the book side. Maybe ask also at http://honda-tech.com/ . Searching for {EW1 swap} and then {D15a2 swap} turns up some chatter about things to watch out for. I don't see any discussion about swapping between between the E series and D series. Perhaps for some obvious reason over my head... > Hi All- > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Tom > Site http://www.superhonda.com/tech/honda_engine_codes.html > says the D15a2 goes with the Honda CRX HF (Carbed) 1984-1987 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > between the E series and D series. Perhaps for some obvious > reason over my head... You have found what I have been discovering the past 2 weeks - nothing but conflciting data exists for years 1984 thru 1987 when it comes to engine blocks, heads, and engine numbers. Its very frustrating. But thanks for all the good links - there was a lot of good information in them - unfortunately nothing I could use. Even though Chilton and Haynes say nothing about major differences between 87 D15A2 blocks and heads and previous 84 thru 86 EW1 blocks and heads - I noticed that the locating dowel pins are in different locations on the EW1 block and D15A2 head - but everything else bolts up fine. There are 3 Studs in place of head bolts on the block so I figured the head and gasket could not be off enough to make a difference. But there could be a major difference between an EW1 camshaft and a D15A2 camshaft which is causing my problem. I cannot find any information anywhere to verify it one way or the other. I will run a compression test tomorrow to see if it tells me anything. Thanks! Tom > You have found what I have been discovering the past 2 > weeks - nothing > but conflciting data exists for years 1984 thru 1987 when > it comes to > engine blocks, heads, and engine numbers. I agree there does not seem to be anything authoritative out there other than some anecdotes about specific engine swaps (though unfortunately none that I've found so far that is exactly the configuration you are attempting). FWIW, www.hondaswap.com is a forum specialized to Honda engine swaps. I see it has a "Civic and CRX - EW" board, with recent participation. Registration appears to be free. This newsgroup does not see much discussion about the vagaries of engine head/block etc. swapping. snip > there could be a major > difference between an EW1 camshaft and a D15A2 camshaft > which is > causing my problem. I cannot find any information anywhere > to verify it > one way or the other. I would call Majestic and ask them, to cover all bases. Of course, as I'm sure you are aware, it could be something completely unrelated to the two heads. > Hi All- > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Tom all symptoms are classic cam timing is not set correctly. besides, if this was the wrong head, it wouldn't go on at all. additionally, if the previous cam ruined because of low oil, be prepared for the block to be shot too. and you want to track down the reason why the oil disappeared. next time, replace the whole motor. junkers are cheap enough and will save you a /lot/ of messing about. > all symptoms are classic cam timing is not set correctly. besides, if > this was the wrong head, it wouldn't go on at all. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the oil disappeared. next time, replace the whole motor. junkers are > cheap enough and will save you a /lot/ of messing about. Oil problem was leaving for California to Tuscon Arizona in too much of a hurry and not checking oil level before I left. Oil lite came on 50 miles before Gila Bend and - with no towns inbetween - I decided to go for it. The cam snapped about 15 miles down the road.Total stupidity on my part. Sad part is the engine was running just perfect before my screwup. I have checked the cam timing on 5 separate occasions - I am confident the timing is set correctly, but there is still a good chance there is a difference between the 87 D15A2 camshaft and previous years EW1 camshaft timing - even though they are both for manual transaxles. That is what I was hoping to find out. Depending on what source you use, I have found varying degree's of conflicting information. I am finding it very difficult to find a source I can depend upon. The Haynes and Chiltons manuals are an absolute joke. Mis-information in both manuals seem to have no end. All they are good for is kindling for the fire place in my opinion. Unfortunately, in Tuscon the Honda's are picked pretty clean. One would think the heads would be the same if they slip over the studs and everything bolts on ok. But consider this - the block has the head locating pins on the two INSIDE holes, but the head has them on the far OUTSIDE two holes! Since there are 3 studs in place of head bolts on the block, I figured the locating pins were not that necessary. Its just another ??? that makes me wonder how much else is different between EW1 and D15A2. Tom >>all symptoms are classic cam timing is not set correctly. besides, if >>this was the wrong head, it wouldn't go on at all. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > a difference between the 87 D15A2 camshaft and previous years EW1 > camshaft timing - even though they are both for manual transaxles. that's more than likely the case. if you can't dig out a manual that gives you the info, you may need to experiment. iirc, if it's coughing out of the carb, the timing's too retarded, so advance it a tooth or two. there should be a small degree of opening overlap between exhaust and intake on the exhaust stroke of the piston, and that should be at tdc - aim for that. obviously, rotate the crank by hand a few times before firing to make sure it was re-toothed in the right direction and that you don't get interference. i have no idea of the specs for your vehicle, but fwiw, the difference between the d15b2 and the d16a6 [same head] on the 88-91 civic is two teeth. there's two sets of timing marks - in the former, two lines get set parallel with the top of the head, in the latter, a single mark aligns with a notch below the pulley wheel. if you have those features on yours and they offer a tooth or two's difference, that's where i'd start experimenting. > That > is what I was hoping to find out. Depending on what source you use, I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > just another ??? that makes me wonder how much else is different > between EW1 and D15A2. if the head's on, doesn't leak, and the peripherals fit, i don't think that's your biggest problem. > Tom
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