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Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 2006

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Water Pump and timing belt cost $725

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Dashingdon@gmail.com - 07 Jul 2006 19:17 GMT
My Honda civic(1993)  mileage : 131000. I bought it at 111000 last
year.Thus, I've had it for a year now and done 20,000 miles.

My car overheated today.I took it to the dealership and paid $120 for
finding out the estimate and he said he'll apply it towards the
repair.Found out that the thermostat had to be replaced.Total cost
$200.

The dealer also told me that there was a hole in the water pump and it
needed to be replaced.And that, if i was replacing the water pump,
might as well replace the timing belt too.He said the total cost would
be $720.Can't the hole be patched up or covered instead of replacing
the water pump?.

SHOULD  i show it to another honda mechanic and get it done from there
for a cheaper price?.There is an asian mechanic,and i have done many
jobs with him.I dont know why but i trust the dealer more than this
mechanic.I am in a dilemma. Also, if ther is a hole in the water pump,
how soon it should be replaced and what are the consequences if
replaced late?.I am a broke college student, but i use this car a lot.I
thought hondas were reliable.
Elle - 07 Jul 2006 22:06 GMT
> My Honda civic(1993)  mileage : 131000. I bought it at
> 111000 last
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> replaced.Total cost
> $200.

$200 to change out the thermostat?

IMO they are taking you for a big ride.

Shouldn't have been more than $100 or so, even at the
dealership.

> The dealer also told me that there was a hole in the water
> pump and it
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> this car a lot.I
> thought hondas were reliable.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone report a "hole in the
water pump" here I have heard of water pump's failing, but
not via a hole, and leaking coolant.

Monitor the engine's temperature. Never drive when it is in
the red zone or approaching it, according to the dashboard
temperature gage.

Start monitoring the coolant level by looking at the cooling
system reservoir's level. Check it when the engine is cool,
then hot. Check it again when the engine is cool, then hot.
The same levels should recur if the checks are done over a
day or so.

Please post when the timing belt was last changed. It might
be due anyway. It is standard operating procedure to
simultaneously change the water pump with the timing belt,
because the parts that need to be removed, and so the labor,
to get to each is nearly identical.
Dick - 07 Jul 2006 22:26 GMT
If your timing belt was never replaced, you are on borrowed time.  A
failure could mean a new engine.  If it was replaced at around 100K
miles, then there would be no reason to replace it now.  Honda water
pumps have about the same life as the timing belt, so it is customary
to change them both at the same time.  I know it's a lot of money, but
so is a new engine.

Dick

>My Honda civic(1993)  mileage : 131000. I bought it at 111000 last
>year.Thus, I've had it for a year now and done 20,000 miles.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>replaced late?.I am a broke college student, but i use this car a lot.I
>thought hondas were reliable.
Dashingdon@gmail.com - 07 Jul 2006 22:48 GMT
Dick - I don't even know if the timing belt was replaced or not.I
bought the car one year ago at 110000.Second hand car from a private
party.How does  one find out if the timing belt was changed?.

Elle - The diagnosis was $120, so they applied it towards changing the
thermostat and the total came to $200.

> If your timing belt was never replaced, you are on borrowed time.  A
> failure could mean a new engine.  If it was replaced at around 100K
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> >replaced late?.I am a broke college student, but i use this car a lot.I
> >thought hondas were reliable.
Elle - 07 Jul 2006 22:56 GMT
> Dick - I don't even know if the timing belt was replaced
> or not.I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> changing the
> thermostat and the total came to $200.

Dashingdon, what I mean is that (1) it should cost a lot
less than $120 to diagnose a faulty thermostat; and (2) even
if they could justify $120 for the diagnosis, they sure as
heck didn't "apply it towards" the repair in my estimation.

If you went in there and asked them to change the
thermostat, they shouldn't charge more than maybe $100.

On the off chance that for the diagnosis they actually
removed the thermostat and tested it, then installing a new
thermostat overlaps completely with this.

In short, I think this dealership is taking you for a ride,
big time.

Without written records, there is no sure way to tell when
the timing belt was last changed.

If you drive in "severe conditions" that might help justify
changing the timing belt now. See the owner's manual's
maintenance schedule at  site
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.asp. On the left,
click on "Owner's Manuals." Follow the pointers. Once you
arrive at the pdf file, it may appear that only one page has
come up. In fact, page numbers that are highlighted within
the pdf file are links on which you can click to take you to
the page. Also, in the upper right hand corner of any white
page look for an arrow. Click the right arrow to get to the
next page. Lastly, pressing "Ctrl-A" will permit easier
reading of some of the pages at this site.
Dashingdon@gmail.com - 07 Jul 2006 23:11 GMT
Ok, the service advisor told me that the car could be over-heating due
to many reasons.Blown casket, fan motor might be off, radiator mihgt be
off, thermostat might be off, yada yada.He said in order to look at
this and find out what the problem is, it'll cost $120 and if i give
them the go ahead for the repair, the $120 will be applied towards the
repair.He called me today morning and said that it will be $200 total.

> > Dick - I don't even know if the timing belt was replaced
> > or not.I
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> next page. Lastly, pressing "Ctrl-A" will permit easier
> reading of some of the pages at this site.
johngdole@hotmail.com - 08 Jul 2006 00:34 GMT
Sounds like the dealer isn't sure what the problem was, but started
replacing the thermostat (and pocketed the $200). Aside from whether
the cost is reasonable (IMO dealer prices are all unreasonable as they
probably priced it out separately as coolant service PLUS thermostat
replacement, but somebody has to pay for the fancy waiting areas),
thermostat is probably the last of the items listed I would suspect.

If the water pump seal isn't holding pressure, your engine can
overheat, among other reasons mentioned. Are you losing coolant? Does
the coolant level rise when the engine is hot and stays there after
cooling?

$720 is reasonable at a dealer for an Accord V6. Didn't realize Bay
area Civics cost that much for the serivce on a Civic. Check around for
references to a good independent mechanic who specializes in Hondas,
not just a service station that "specializes in everything."

Those who learn to do the work ourselves would spend about $200 on
parts and a few hours of our time.

> Ok, the service advisor told me that the car could be over-heating due
> to many reasons.Blown casket, fan motor might be off, radiator mihgt be
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> > next page. Lastly, pressing "Ctrl-A" will permit easier
> > reading of some of the pages at this site.
Dashingdon@gmail.com - 07 Jul 2006 23:12 GMT
Ok, the service advisor told me that the car could be over-heating due
to many reasons.Blown casket, fan motor might be off, radiator mihgt be
off, thermostat might be off, yada yada.He said in order to look at
this and find out what the problem is, it'll cost $120 and if i give
them the go ahead for the repair, the $120 will be applied towards the
repair.He called me today morning and said that it will be $200
total.And this is a honda dealership here in the Bay Area.

> > Dick - I don't even know if the timing belt was replaced
> > or not.I
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> next page. Lastly, pressing "Ctrl-A" will permit easier
> reading of some of the pages at this site.
Elle - 07 Jul 2006 23:18 GMT
Is the dealer still saying there's a "hole in the water
pump"?

Look for others' responses.

I hear you about the Bay Area. So I'll amend my opinion to
say that this dealership is really pushing it, even for the
Bay area.

I'd go elsewhere.

> Ok, the service advisor told me that the car could be
> over-heating due
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>> next page. Lastly, pressing "Ctrl-A" will permit easier
>> reading of some of the pages at this site.
Dashingdon@gmail.com - 08 Jul 2006 00:05 GMT
Well, i'll try to reduce the price from $200 to whatever i can.Let's
see if he agrees.He's already changed the thermostat.

> Is the dealer still saying there's a "hole in the water
> pump"?
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
> >> next page. Lastly, pressing "Ctrl-A" will permit easier
> >> reading of some of the pages at this site.
Elle - 08 Jul 2006 00:10 GMT
Miscommunication. I meant after having this repair and
paying the //previously agreed// upon $200, you should use a
different dealer or perhaps try an independent import shop.

I do not think it is cool to renege on a deal and regret the
implication otherwise.

> Well, i'll try to reduce the price from $200 to whatever i
> can.Let's
[quoted text clipped - 100 lines]
>> >> easier
>> >> reading of some of the pages at this site.
johnin - 08 Jul 2006 01:16 GMT
My Honda civic(1993)  mileage : 131000. I bought it at 111000 las
year.Thus, I've had it for a year now and done 20,000 miles

My car overheated today.I took it to the dealership and paid $120 fo
finding out the estimate and he said he'll apply it towards th
repair.Found out that the thermostat had to be replaced.Total cos
$200

The dealer also told me that there was a hole in the water pump and i
needed to be replaced.And that, if i was replacing the water pump
might as well replace the timing belt too.He said the total cost woul
be $720.Can't the hole be patched up or covered instead of replacin
the water pump?

SHOULD  i show it to another honda mechanic and get it done from ther
for a cheaper price?.There is an asian mechanic,and i have done man
jobs with him.I dont know why but i trust the dealer more than thi
mechanic.I am in a dilemma. Also, if ther is a hole in the water pump
how soon it should be replaced and what are the consequences i
replaced late?.I am a broke college student, but i use this car a lot.
thought hondas were reliable
what! $200 to change a thermostat ? thats downright outrages ouch

i changed mine on my civic using one from partsource came with Gasket
for  a cost of

- $20.00 and i changed coollant and bled coolling system. a jug of prestone was
- $12.00

for a grand total $32.00 Can

the only hole found in the water pump is the weap hole  that water pumps
have to leak out from when the seal go"s  Bad.  if youres is leaking from ther
then Yes get it repaired ASAP before it leaks out the coolant completely & overheats
your  engine! you dont necessarily need to take it to Honda for a $720 bill

there are good mechanics/Tecnitions out there that will do just as good of a jo
for much less make sure to also change that timing belt along with the
water pump and insist on them using Honda parts remember you whant durability/reliability on the work performed for the long run.

P.S
And yes HONDAS are reliable vehicles they just need someone willing
to give them some TLC that can take them along way!...... ;

--
johnin
Kevin McMurtrie - 08 Jul 2006 07:13 GMT
> My Honda civic(1993)  mileage : 131000. I bought it at 111000 last
> year.Thus, I've had it for a year now and done 20,000 miles.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> replaced late?.I am a broke college student, but i use this car a lot.I
> thought hondas were reliable.

That sounds all too expensive.

If you're in the SF Bay Area, try Larry Hopkins Honda.  Their prices are
decent and they'll do a good job too.  My only gripe is that they won't
fix intermittent problems unless they see it broken.  That seems to be
all too common among Honda dealerships.

NEVER take it to the frauds at Stevens Creek Honda.  They'll make up
wild stories about dangerous problems that need fixing at super-inflated
prices.  They once told me that my 16 day old Civic blew a little
coolant hose underneath the intake manifold due to vandals and I owed
them money for the repairs.  They tried to scam a friend for a $1600
brake system replacement on a perfectly healthy car brought in for an
oil change.
tww - 08 Jul 2006 13:19 GMT
> My Honda civic(1993)  mileage : 131000. I bought it at 111000 last
> year.Thus, I've had it for a year now and done 20,000 miles.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> replaced late?.I am a broke college student, but i use this car a lot.I
> thought hondas were reliable.

Too high. I had a timing belt package -- timing belt/balance, all drive
belts, water pump etc. replaced for right at $525 ona 98 Accord about 1 1/2
ago at our local Honda dealer.
 
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