Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2007
Faulty alternator on honda civic 90?
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ixnaum - 13 Dec 2006 21:14 GMT Hello,
My problem started when I noticed that the battery light turned on - stayed like that for a few minutes after starting the car. After running the engine for few minutes the battery warning light turned off. Now the light is on all the time no matter how long I keep the engine running.
I suspect a faulty alternator. These are the tests I did and the results I got:
- Voltage across batery terminals when engine off 12.4 V - Voltage across batery terminals when engine idle 11.3 V - Voltage at the alternator (one lead of voltmeter on the alternator terminal the other on the negative terminal of the battery - did I test correctly?) 11.3 V when the engine is idle - same as at the battery.
I also tried to increase the RPMs when testing the battery voltage, it never increased from 11.3V.
Based on what I have read this does point to a faulty alternator, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Articles on the net suggest that the battery voltage should be about what I'm getting 12.4 V, but that it should go as high as 14V when the alternator is running. In that case I'm way below those specs. But are all the cars equal? Why does the alternator on my honda have a sticker that says 12 V ... doesn't it mean that that particular alternator should produce ~ 12V ? Mine is currently 11.3 V which doesn't seem that far off.
I'm very new at fixing cars, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
motsco_ - 13 Dec 2006 22:20 GMT > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Thank you =======================================
Unless it's also HOWLING, you can probably get away with replacing the brushes kit.
Check www.tegger.com for more help.
'Curly'
nnote - 13 Dec 2006 22:52 GMT I found my 96 accord ex's alternator to be faulty, when strange electrical gremlins were taking place. Gauges and radio were randomly shutting off, and all kinds of stuff. I got an alternator out of a wrecked accord for $35 and everything works fine now. Nick
> Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Thank you Tegger - 13 Dec 2006 23:03 GMT <snip>
> In that case I'm way below those specs. But are all the cars equal? > Why does the alternator on my honda have a sticker that says 12 V ... > doesn't it mean that that particular alternator should produce ~ 12V ? > Mine is currently 11.3 V which doesn't seem that far off. An unregulated alternator in good condition will charge at well over 15 volts (and cook many components!). A regulator is needed to damp it down to about 14-14.5V.
What you have discovered is that your alternator is not charging. Better fix this quick or your car will be stranded. Your battery is already *severely* discharged and will have sustained internal damage.
Curly has mentioned the brushes. When these go bad, the charge light will usually flicker randomly for a while as the brushes make intermittent contact, but will eventually stay on for good. It is possible your brushes are simply worn out, but you won't know until you remove the brushes from the rear housing.
To remove the alternator, you must remove the left driveshaft. The brushes may be removed with the alternator in-situ.
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
ixnaum - 14 Dec 2006 00:01 GMT Thanks for all the tips.
I'm going to have the alternator replaced at a repair shop. Removing the driveshaft sounds too coplicated for me. On top of that have a good garage to do this.
At least now I can be sure of what the problem is before throwing bunch of money on this problem.
Grumpy AuContraire - 14 Dec 2006 00:28 GMT > Thanks for all the tips. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > At least now I can be sure of what the problem is before throwing bunch > of money on this problem. Sometimes, you can wack the alternator and if the light goes out, that's your problem. The same goes for the regulator.
JT
peruano_andres@hotmail.com - 14 Dec 2006 20:35 GMT probally this is going to be the first time someone hear about this:
last month i rebuild my alternator because the light was comming on with the engine at low speed, it cost me 100$Canadian to do it, first week the car was perfect, but sutently the battery light start one more time to come one, but this time not only at low speed!!!!. (my alternator mecanic told me one day that the way that honda civic's are made, with all the acc. on and with the negative cable of the battery off the car should shut off(only with acc. on: lights, heather, etc.)... soo i stop the car on a parkin lot and with the acc. OFF i pull off the negative cable of the battery, the car stay! on!!!!, my ALT. was working. with out worring i drove back to my house. next day i put my multimetter with the engine off on the battery it say 11.98V it was correct, i start the car, the battery light stay on, and i check again the V. it was 14.30V... what the F.1@! the light is on and the alternator is working!. i read the repair book and it say to check some of the fuse like: battery fuse, under dash #12 and #24( the #12 i never founded). but i check all the fuses and they were OK!. soo. i decide to do somme experiences: i ran 2 cables from the battery to inside the car by the window and i connceted them with the multimetter. the result were: with the car off and acc's on: 11.10V + - .30V car off and light off: 12.10V car on light off (car not moving): 14.30V car on light off (highter that 10km/h): 14.35V car on all acc.on (car not moving): 12.80V + - 1.00V car on all acc.on (car moving more that 10km/h): 14.30V ALWAYS!
soo that is happening with that light!!!!! that light is driving me crazy!, i check the connection on the ALT. i even clean them and the are perfect!. i check the hayness diagrams but i cant find what is the cable that controls that light. because probaly there is a bad connection somewere. IF THERE IS SOMEONE THAT HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM OR THAT HAS A MORE PRECISE ELECTRIC DIAGRAM BESIDE THE ONE OF THE HAYNESS REPAIR MANUAL THAT WE GET AT CANADIAN TIRE FOR 20$( BECAUSE THAT ON IS NOT! PRECISE). LET ME KNOW. and for the people that will probaly reply by saying that is a altenator of a battery problem is not!. we are in december and there in quebec we start the day with temp of -13C and let me tell you, every single morning my car start at the first try, even with 250 000 km on it. i have a other car, a tercel of the same year they are fantastic this 2 japans cars they had NEVER let me down even with temps under -25C. they don't even burn oil. soo any info regarding the F.1@! light let me know.
ixnaum - 15 Dec 2006 01:11 GMT Here is an update.
Today I had the alternator replaced at a mechanic. $125 labor + $75 for the part. The first thing I did when I got the car is grabbed my multimeter
Car off: 12.2 V Car idle: 14.5 V
So I thought. Great! It's all fixed. (The battery light was not on ... everything perfect)
I drove a few kilometers and the red light reappeared. I popped the hood to do another measurement.
Car off: 12.2 V Car idle: 12.5 V
So after a few km I have the same problem again? The one thing that did improve versus the state prior to the change is that now at least when I increase the trottle I do get more juice. As much as 13V ... but that's still a bit low. Before no matter how many RPMs I was running the engine at it was always steady at 11.2V
Now I also notice a rubber burning / electric motor burning smell when I pop the hood. What does that mean? Bad alternator? Belt too tight somehow? The engine also sounds different. It has a sort of a whizzing sound that increases with RPMs .. could that be the new alternator? Is that ok?
Looks like I'm not out of the woods yet. Did the mechanic do a shitty job? Did they put a crappy alternator in there?
He told me I might have to replace the battery? Could that be it? Could it be that the previous problem degraded my battery to the point that it won't charge anymore? (I did drive my car to the mechanic this morning successfully - with the battery light on)
Tegger - 15 Dec 2006 01:21 GMT "ixnaum" <tflorian@telus.net> wrote in news:1166145065.250097.46960@ 80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com:
> Here is an update. <snip>
> Looks like I'm not out of the woods yet. Did the mechanic do a shitty > job? Did they put a crappy alternator in there? He sure did. Your "new" alternator is pooched. It's a standard crappy aftermarket reman: bad right out of the box. Why am I not surprised?
If you don't mind the $400 expense (and possible backorder wait), you can get a genuine Honda reman from your friendly local Honda dealer. That one is guaranteed to last practically forever. Honda's authorized repair depots use genuine Denso parts, the best there is.
If you're on a budget, you can have your grease monkey order one from NAPA/UAP. Your chances there of getting one that works are slightly better than from many other aftermarket places.
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
ixnaum - 15 Dec 2006 02:01 GMT > He sure did. Your "new" alternator is pooched. It's a standard crappy > aftermarket reman: bad right out of the box. Why am I not surprised? I will try to take care of it under warranty. I called them and they said that they don't trust the multimeter measurement (because it could be the battery) They will do a bech test. If it passes they replace it, if it doesn't pass I have to pay $40 of how much it costs to perform the test and then I have to look for another solution.
Could it really be the battery? That doesn't add up. Also, it did work 100% perfectly well for the first 15 minutes ... and then it crapped out. If it was the battery I would have trouble from the beginning even though the alternator was fine.
Tegger - 15 Dec 2006 02:47 GMT >> He sure did. Your "new" alternator is pooched. It's a standard crappy >> aftermarket reman: bad right out of the box. Why am I not surprised? > > I will try to take care of it under warranty. I called them and they > said that they don't trust the multimeter measurement (because it > could be the battery) If you connect a multimeter to the battery with the engine running and while the alternator is charging, you'll see over 14V at idle. If your monkey doesn't know how to do a proper charge test, then he's incompetent and is looking for a way to stick you with the costs of his stupidity.
> They will do a bech test. If it passes they replace it, if it doesn't > pass I have to pay $40 of how much it costs to perform the test and > then I have to look for another solution. Sounds fair... *If* they know how to do a bench test...
> Could it really be the battery? Don't think so.
Do YOU know how to check the battery? It's pretty easy.
> Also, it did > work 100% perfectly well for the first 15 minutes ... and then it > crapped out. It's BAD. Standard aftermarket, like I said before...
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Netsock - 15 Dec 2006 12:31 GMT >If you connect a multimeter to the battery with the engine running and >while the alternator is charging, you'll see over 14V at idle. That's a little hot. The max setting is 13.8 vdc...anything over that should be addressed.
peruano_andres@hotmail.com - 15 Dec 2006 20:32 GMT personaly a had never trusted a mecanic the only time i go to them is because i had to repair something that i had not the tools to do it my self....well talking about the battery problem u can tell your self if the battery is good or not. if the battery charge= is good/ if the battery can't hold a charge= no good, with a bad battery, you should be able to start the car no more that 4 times, and u wont be able to start the car if you let the car off for more that 5 hours. thats because the only way that a battery can be bad is because it wont be able to take a charge. in hondas civics at least my 92 wont light on if the battery is bad.
regarding of a battery can damage your alternator, is true!. but your know why? i will explain you. because, went your battery is not working, you force the alternator to give more power to try to charge it. that extra charge that the alternator will try give to the battery will end up with the alternator burning out. (normaly that could happend in a perior of several hours or even days!.) NORMALY WHAT burn out the alternator SOO FAST is a short circuit!.
peruano_andres@hotmail.com - 15 Dec 2006 20:32 GMT personaly a had never trusted a mecanic the only time i go to them is because i had to repair something that i had not the tools to do it my self....well talking about the battery problem u can tell your self if the battery is good or not. if the battery charge= is good/ if the battery can't hold a charge= no good, with a bad battery, you should be able to start the car no more that 4 times, and u wont be able to start the car if you let the car off for more that 5 hours. thats because the only way that a battery can be bad is because it wont be able to take a charge. in hondas civics at least my 92 wont light on if the battery is bad.
regarding of a battery can damage your alternator, is true!. but your know why? i will explain you. because, went your battery is not working, you force the alternator to give more power to try to charge it. that extra charge that the alternator will try give to the battery will end up with the alternator burning out. (normaly that could happend in a perior of several hours or even days!.) NORMALY WHAT burn out the alternator SOO FAST is a short circuit!.
peruano_andres@hotmail.com - 15 Dec 2006 20:38 GMT one more thing, if you go to see a mecanic, go to one that is a specialist in car electricity!, because alot of mecanics don't even have any idea that are the 4 extras cables that come from the alternator are for.
ixnaum - 03 Jan 2007 12:16 GMT Thanks for all your help. I originally had the alternator replaced at Canadian Tire. So I took it there back for warranty. They were extremely unfriendly, but in the end I got the alternator replaced at no extra cost to me and everything seems to be ok now.
This was the first time and last time I got something fixed at Canadian Tire - it wasn't a good experience at all. It was cheap, but all the running around wasn't worth it.
loewent - 03 Jan 2007 13:33 GMT how many times have I heard that 'first and last time at CanTire'.... lol. And I'm not being smug, as I too have had to say it before too.... :)
Getting to the actual replacement specifics, I have a 98 civic, and my haynes manual said to remove the driveshaft too. The manual was wrong.
After review on google, it appears the 90 civic is pretty much the same (see http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-89066.html or google 90 civic alternator). There is an alternator mounting bracket attached to the engine with 2 bolts. Once you have freed the alternator from the bracket, undo those 2 bolts to remove the bracket. The alternator practically falls onto the floor.
I learned this the hard way on my civic, as I only discovered to stupid little bracket AFTER I busted my ball joint stud trying to remove the driveshaft. So instead of $90 to replace the alternator, it was $180 to replace the alternator and a balljoint.... grrrrrr..... :)
t
>Thanks for all your help. I originally had the alternator replaced at >Canadian Tire. So I took it there back for warranty. They were [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Tire - it wasn't a good experience at all. It was cheap, but all the >running around wasn't worth it. Joe LaVigne - 03 Jan 2007 13:36 GMT > Thanks for all your help. I originally had the alternator replaced at > Canadian Tire. So I took it there back for warranty. They were [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Tire - it wasn't a good experience at all. It was cheap, but all the > running around wasn't worth it. I've always been a guy who got cars fixed at local shops, and the occasional chain, always trying to get the best price.
With Hondas, it is seeming that the dealer is a much better option. While the cost is generally higher, the exclusive use of OEM parts seems pretty important for these cars, since so many of the aftermarket parts for them seem to be very poorly made.
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