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Car Forum / Honda Cars / May 2007

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K&N Air Filters - Anyone have any comments on these?

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alfred - 20 May 2007 05:24 GMT
I just bought a K&N Air Filter for my 2005 Accord EX 4 cyl, and I didnt have
it put in yet, but I am soon when I have the oil and filter changed also. It
was $35.99 but I am told it can increase HP and make the car run alot better
with much better performance and better mpg. There are 33,500 miles on my
car and it was due for an air filter, so I wanted to go with one of the
best.

Also I put an STP fuel system cleaner in the tank, and I was wondering if
anyone had any thoughts on these also? I hear that they treat up to 21
gallons and they are okay to use ever 6 mo or so. I usually use a fuel
injector cleaner, but this is a little new to me.
jim beam - 20 May 2007 06:17 GMT
> I just bought a K&N Air Filter for my 2005 Accord EX 4 cyl, and I didnt have
> it put in yet, but I am soon when I have the oil and filter changed also. It
> was $35.99 but I am told it can increase HP and make the car run alot better
> with much better performance and better mpg. There are 33,500 miles on my
> car and it was due for an air filter, so I wanted to go with one of the
> best.

don't put it in, just use honda filters.  k&n filters let through
significantly more grit than any other filter - this will decrease your
engine life accordingly.  they're fine for racers as they don't expect
long engine life anyway, but it's unlikely you'll see much difference in
performance compared with a clean factory filter unless you do extensive
engine work.  with factory filtration, you can get 300k+ miles out of
that motor.  google is your friend - there's real-life testing reports
out there on filtration performance.  there was a link from tegger.com,
but it's broken.

> Also I put an STP fuel system cleaner in the tank, and I was wondering if
> anyone had any thoughts on these also? I hear that they treat up to 21
> gallons and they are okay to use ever 6 mo or so. I usually use a fuel
> injector cleaner, but this is a little new to me.

my, you /are/ susceptible to advertising aren't you!  it's just a
solvent/detergent, just like any other fuel component cleaner.  use is a
good idea.  paying extra for differentiation that doesn't exist is not.
loewent - 24 May 2007 04:48 GMT
Been running a K&N Filtercharger in my 98 civic since 70000kms.  I now have
over 275000kms, and compression is still 190 on all 4 cylinders.

I also drive on a TONNE of gravel.

t

>> I just bought a K&N Air Filter for my 2005 Accord EX 4 cyl, and I didnt have
>> it put in yet, but I am soon when I have the oil and filter changed also. It
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>solvent/detergent, just like any other fuel component cleaner.  use is a
>good idea.  paying extra for differentiation that doesn't exist is not.
jim beam - 24 May 2007 04:54 GMT
> Been running a K&N Filtercharger in my 98 civic since 70000kms.  I now have
> over 275000kms, and compression is still 190 on all 4 cylinders.

the chance of you having identical compression on all 4 at that mileage
is slim to zero.  i therefore have a hard time buying the rest of the
story - particularly as particle ingestion/engine wear is a well known
relationship.

> I also drive on a TONNE of gravel.
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>> solvent/detergent, just like any other fuel component cleaner.  use is a
>> good idea.  paying extra for differentiation that doesn't exist is not.
AZ Nomad - 24 May 2007 13:42 GMT
>Been running a K&N Filtercharger in my 98 civic since 70000kms.  I now have
>over 275000kms, and compression is still 190 on all 4 cylinders.

>I also drive on a TONNE of gravel.

So
f.cking
What?

A statististical sample of one is less than worthless.

"Ah been running on no air filter at all since I pulled the car out of a lake
twenty years ago and I still have perfect compression on all 4 cylinders. "
Makes you want to run out an emulate the idiot, doesn't it!
loewent - 27 May 2007 04:43 GMT
They were all within 182-190.  Max variation is 28 according to the manual.
Spec is 184 new.  This reading, as well as the fact that oil consumption
between oil changes is next to nothing, lead me to the conclusion that I
shouldn't bother worrying about it.

Sorry that my experience, although it is only one sample as indicated by
Nomad, blows your little theory to bits.  Stop the fear-mongering.  I could
always bring up the fact that since 130000kms I have been using FRAM Oil
filters too.

Bottom line, regular oil changes and PROPER maintenance of a K&N air filter
have yielded the results I indicated.  This sample of one is worth quite a
bit to me.

Signed,
the idiot

>>Been running a K&N Filtercharger in my 98 civic since 70000kms.  I now have
>>over 275000kms, and compression is still 190 on all 4 cylinders.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>twenty years ago and I still have perfect compression on all 4 cylinders. "
>Makes you want to run out an emulate the idiot, doesn't it!
Private Private - 28 May 2007 06:25 GMT
AEM makes  a new Dryflow' cone filter that doesnt need or use any oil.

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=93
Frank Boettcher - 20 May 2007 13:15 GMT
>I just bought a K&N Air Filter for my 2005 Accord EX 4 cyl, and I didnt have
>it put in yet, but I am soon when I have the oil and filter changed also. It
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>gallons and they are okay to use ever 6 mo or so. I usually use a fuel
>injector cleaner, but this is a little new to me.

Possibly you could go on the K & N site and see that they promise no
increase in HP or MPG for the filter alone, but do for CAI kits.

I had a K & N filter on my truck for ages.  Didn't see any increase in
MPG or performance, but on the other hand, did not experience the
negative effects that you would expect if the filter was not working
acceptably as a filter.  No excessive ring, cylinder, valve wear
manifested as oil use or compression loss, no seal leakage.

BTW, with regard to warranty, Toyota offers Borla as a factory option
which includes a high flow exhaust and a K & N style filter.  It is
badged Borla, but has the same sticker that K & N uses and looks a lot
like a K & N or one of their competing permanent, oil impregnated
filters.  I would suspect it is private branded to Borla.  I don't
think Toyota would void my warranty because of a factory authorized
options.  According to K & N no other manufacture will either.  I'm
waiting for non troll evidence that this has been done.

I believe the fuel cleaner is unnecessary if you use a good fuel.
Some have injector cleaners as additives.  Chevron/Texaco has techron
in my geographic area.

My $.02 worth

Frank
Tegger - 20 May 2007 13:19 GMT
> I just bought a K&N Air Filter for my 2005 Accord EX 4 cyl, and I
> didnt have it put in yet, but I am soon when I have the oil and filter
> changed also. It was $35.99 but I am told it can increase HP and make
> the car run alot better with much better performance and better mpg.
> There are 33,500 miles on my car and it was due for an air filter, so
> I wanted to go with one of the best.

Then go with OEM.

K&N MIGHT get you one hp or so, but this will come at the cost of
greatly accelerated cylinder bore and ring wear. K&N filters allow quite
a lot more grit to enter the engine along with that extra air.

K&N filters also are susceptible to accidental over-oiling, which can
damage the mass-airflow sensor, a critical part of your emissions
control system.

K&N filters were originally designed for racing, not road use. In racing
you want every fraction of a hp you can wring out of your engine, and
you do not care if the engine is still running past the checkered flag.
Road-car users generally want the exact opposite of that.

> Also I put an STP fuel system cleaner in the tank, and I was wondering
> if anyone had any thoughts on these also? I hear that they treat up to
> 21 gallons and they are okay to use ever 6 mo or so. I usually use a
> fuel injector cleaner, but this is a little new to me.

You do not have to use anything at all, especially in a car that new. By
EPA edict, modern gasolines are chock-full of detergents already.

Now, if the car sits undriven for long periods of time, or is driven for
many very short trips where it never gets up to full operating
temperature, it would be wise to administer a bottle of Chevron Techron
once a month or two.

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam - 20 May 2007 13:26 GMT
>> I just bought a K&N Air Filter for my 2005 Accord EX 4 cyl, and I
>> didnt have it put in yet, but I am soon when I have the oil and filter
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> damage the mass-airflow sensor, a critical part of your emissions
> control system.

that may be true of other vehicles, but not honda.  honda uses pressure
sensors and a programed flow map, not a mass sensor - insensitive to
this kind of issue.

> K&N filters were originally designed for racing, not road use. In racing
> you want every fraction of a hp you can wring out of your engine, and
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> temperature, it would be wise to administer a bottle of Chevron Techron
> once a month or two.
Tegger - 20 May 2007 13:59 GMT
>> K&N filters also are susceptible to accidental over-oiling, which can
>> damage the mass-airflow sensor, a critical part of your emissions
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> pressure sensors and a programed flow map, not a mass sensor -
> insensitive to this kind of issue.

Some Accords do use MAFs. I ran into this one before so I checked.

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam - 20 May 2007 15:03 GMT
>>> K&N filters also are susceptible to accidental over-oiling, which can
>>> damage the mass-airflow sensor, a critical part of your emissions
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Some Accords do use MAFs. I ran into this one before so I checked.

which ones?
Tegger - 20 May 2007 20:32 GMT
>>>> K&N filters also are susceptible to accidental over-oiling, which can
>>>> damage the mass-airflow sensor, a critical part of your emissions
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
> which ones?

Like the '03 and up SULEV ones.

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam - 21 May 2007 01:14 GMT
>>>>> K&N filters also are susceptible to accidental over-oiling, which can
>>>>> damage the mass-airflow sensor, a critical part of your emissions
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Like the '03 and up SULEV ones.

i looked on majestic's site and see only map sensors - through 06, i4 &
v6.  map is manifold air pressure - not an air mass.
Tegger - 21 May 2007 14:19 GMT
>>>>>> K&N filters also are susceptible to accidental over-oiling, which
>>>>>> can damage the mass-airflow sensor, a critical part of your
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> i looked on majestic's site and see only map sensors - through 06, i4
> & v6.  map is manifold air pressure - not an air mass.

http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=2003112035861

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam - 22 May 2007 05:05 GMT
>>>>>>> K&N filters also are susceptible to accidental over-oiling, which
>>>>>>> can damage the mass-airflow sensor, a critical part of your
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=2003112035861

ok, i found it - it's in the air filter assembly, not the manifold or
throttle body.  kind of hard to believe that maf is more sensitive than
map, but hey.
alfred - 24 May 2007 03:41 GMT
Okay so what is the verdict? I have a 2005 Accord Ex 4-cyl and its auto. Its
not a SULEV, its only an LEV. Personally I really don't see how having more
free air flow is going to make that much difference and I cant imagine that
it would damage anything, but I'm not a mechanic just a guy who likes
hondas.

>>>>>> Some Accords do use MAFs. I ran into this one before so I checked.
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> throttle body.  kind of hard to believe that maf is more sensitive than
> map, but hey.
jim beam - 24 May 2007 03:55 GMT
> Okay so what is the verdict? I have a 2005 Accord Ex 4-cyl and its auto. Its
> not a SULEV, its only an LEV. Personally I really don't see how having more
> free air flow is going to make that much difference and I cant imagine that
> it would damage anything, but I'm not a mechanic just a guy who likes
> hondas.

it's not the air-flow, it's the grit-flow that accompanies it.  reduced
filter efficacy [marginally] improves airflow.  is that what you want?
because that's what you'll get - that's how a k&n filter works.

>>>>>>> Some Accords do use MAFs. I ran into this one before so I checked.
>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>> throttle body.  kind of hard to believe that maf is more sensitive than
>> map, but hey.
alfred - 24 May 2007 04:04 GMT
I'm going to keep this car another 9 and a half months, and I am just
looking for some performance as well as getting a new filter. As long as the
car is going to be okay, I would like to use the K&N filter. I am planning
on the Civic Si at the end of this lease in March 2008. The man at the Auto
Zone who sold me the filter seems to think the filter is a great one and
that I would notice a big improvement.

> it's not the air-flow, it's the grit-flow that accompanies it.  reduced
> filter efficacy [marginally] improves airflow.  is that what you want?
> because that's what you'll get - that's how a k&n filter works.
jim beam - 24 May 2007 04:12 GMT
> I'm going to keep this car another 9 and a half months, and I am just
> looking for some performance as well as getting a new filter. As long as the
> car is going to be okay, I would like to use the K&N filter. I am planning
> on the Civic Si at the end of this lease in March 2008. The man at the Auto
> Zone who sold me the filter seems to think the filter is a great one and
> that I would notice a big improvement.

er, are you going to declare this when you sell the vehicle???

and you'll notice an improvement with /any/ clean new filter!
seriously, the airflow pressure difference is minuscule.  the airborne
particle load is more than double.

>> it's not the air-flow, it's the grit-flow that accompanies it.  reduced
>> filter efficacy [marginally] improves airflow.  is that what you want?
>> because that's what you'll get - that's how a k&n filter works.
AZ Nomad - 24 May 2007 04:21 GMT
>I'm going to keep this car another 9 and a half months, and I am just
>looking for some performance as well as getting a new filter. As long as the
>car is going to be okay, I would like to use the K&N filter. I am planning
>on the Civic Si at the end of this lease in March 2008. The man at the Auto
>Zone who sold me the filter seems to think the filter is a great one and
>that I would notice a big improvement.

He was lying to you.  The improvement is about 2% tops, not enough to
notice.
Siskuwihane - 26 May 2007 23:29 GMT
> I'm going to keep this car another 9 and a half months, and I am just
> looking for some performance as well as getting a new filter. As long as the
> car is going to be okay, I would like to use the K&N filter. I am planning
> on the Civic Si at the end of this lease in March 2008. The man at the Auto
> Zone who sold me the filter seems to think the filter is a great one and
> that I would notice a big improvement.

SOME people are going to say the K&N is not good to use and SOME
people are going to say it is good to use but I bet ALL would say the
Honda filter is good to use.

So go by what SOME say or by what ALL say, your choice.
AZ Nomad - 24 May 2007 04:08 GMT
>Okay so what is the verdict? I have a 2005 Accord Ex 4-cyl and its auto. Its
>not a SULEV, its only an LEV. Personally I really don't see how having more
>free air flow is going to make that much difference and I cant imagine that
>it would damage anything, but I'm not a mechanic just a guy who likes
>hondas.

The damage is not caused by having a free flowing air filter.
The damage is caused by having an air filter that lets abrasive particles
get past it.  Leave it stock;  it just isn't worth it.
alfred - 25 May 2007 05:30 GMT
Okay well what about if I got a K&N or AEM Cold Air Intake and put that on
the car? Would that cause problems also? I have a lease on this car and when
the lease is up in 9 months its going back to the dealer and I am not going
to tell them there is a K&N filter in it, just trade in and get a new car. I
just want to make sure that the car will not be damaged from 9 months of
using the K&N filter.

> The damage is not caused by having a free flowing air filter.
> The damage is caused by having an air filter that lets abrasive particles
> get past it.  Leave it stock;  it just isn't worth it.
Earle Horton - 25 May 2007 05:55 GMT
If you believed the doomsayers you would never do it, but hey it's got a
warranty, don't it?  If the car is damaged, put the stock air cleaner back
on it and put in a warranty claim.  I am not sure that buying this stuff is
worth it for 9 months of use though.  I have had a K&N on my Jeep for nine
years now and it is running just great.  I am not so sure about the
performance, but I measured 2-3 mpg mileage gain and I like the cool sucking
sound from under the hood.  With the cat-back system and a luminous dial
watch knowing exactly when my daughter got home in it was pretty easy.

Cheers,

Earle

> Okay well what about if I got a K&N or AEM Cold Air Intake and put that on
> the car? Would that cause problems also? I have a lease on this car and when
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > The damage is caused by having an air filter that lets abrasive particles
> > get past it.  Leave it stock;  it just isn't worth it.
Pauly - 25 May 2007 05:59 GMT
I have a K&N drop-in filter. Will not buy it again.
Buying the cleaning kit and doing cleaning, drying sucks, IMHO.
 
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