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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2007Mileage question
2001 civic. I cleaned and oiled the K&N filter and have gotten poor mileage since then. Is it possible to over oil these and slow down air flow. I also had to drill out th three front screws that hold down the air cleaner cover an replaced with nut/flange bolt config and got the cover secure again, I assume this would not be the problem? bigjcw1023@gmail.com wrote in news:1191302064.473978.104630@ 19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com: > 2001 civic. I cleaned and oiled the K&N filter and have gotten poor > mileage since then. Is it possible to over oil these and slow down > air flow. I also had to drill out th three front screws that hold > down the air cleaner cover an replaced with nut/flange bolt config and > got the cover secure again, I assume this would not be the problem? It IS possible to over-oil it and foul the throttle body, the idle air control valve, the intake air temperature sensor, and the fast idle thermo valve. These are critical components and are very expensive to replace. Why on earth would you put such junk on your car in the first place? Because it looks "kewl"? Check out this test: http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm Once you read this, you'll want to hastily retreat to the safety of OEM parts.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >bigjcw1023@gmail.com wrote in news:1191302064.473978.104630@ >19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Once you read this, you'll want to hastily retreat to the safety of OEM >parts. Very interesting report. I wish they had included the Fram filter as that seems to be the one sold by most auto parts stores. I also wonder if there would have been any difference in the outcome if they had tested filters for gasoline engines instead of diesels. I use the Fram in my Jeep, but don't know what the Honda dealer is using in our 2003 Accord V-6. Guess I should take a look! Dick SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > >bigjcw1...@gmail.com wrote in news:1191302064.473978.104630@ > >19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Kinda pisses me off about the K&N filter. Anything I found before I bought was very positive. I would like to have seen FRAM as well. I guess you trade off for one or the other. Cleaner air and more restricted flow, or dirtier air and free flow! > Kinda pisses me off about the K&N filter. Anything I found before I > bought was very positive. I would like to have seen FRAM as well. I > guess you trade off for one or the other. Cleaner air and more > restricted flow, or dirtier air and free flow! That's exactly it. Remember that K&N originated as a RACING filter. When you're racing, you're trying for every last ounce of power you can possibly coax out of the engine, and you don't much care if the motor blows up six inches past the finish line. A road car generally runs under fairly light loads, is expected to last as long as possible, and is expected to start and run reliably on command. It is supposed to be an appliance that gets you from A to B with a minimum of fuss. The best thing you can do is use an OEM air filter. And don't change it /too/ often. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > bigjcw1...@gmail.com wrote innews:1191358729.208344.270050@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > possibly coax out of the engine, and you don't much care if the motor blows > up six inches past the finish line. You are also at Wide Open Throttle quite a bit. While it *may* be possible that the OEM paper filter will inhibit air flow at WOT at typical everyday throttle settings a K&N can't provide any advantage over reasonably clean paper. The engine's getting all the air it can use. > A road car generally runs under fairly light loads, is expected to last as > long as possible, and is expected to start and run reliably on command. It [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The best thing you can do is use an OEM air filter. And don't change it > /too/ often. "too often?" why not change it as often as you want so long as you don't leave it in over 30K miles? Can paper be too clean? I don't think so. > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> bigjcw1...@gmail.com wrote >> innews:1191358729.208344.270050@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > don't leave it in over 30K miles? Can paper be too clean? I don't > think so. There is an SAE paper on this subject. According to this paper, changing the air filter too often doubles engine wear. I quote Ed White, in alt.autos.toyota, Sept 26th: "The SAE paper by Marty Barris (SAE Technical Paper No. 952557 titled: 'Total FiltrationTM: The Influence of Filter Selection on Engine Wear, Emissions and Performance' ) offers two important conclusions: a.. "The level of ambient dust concentration can easily overwhelm other factors in terms of influence on engine wear. It is therefore important to match the air intake filtration system design to the anticipated ambient exposure. And here's an interesting one-: b.. "Too frequent air filter change intervals can double engine wear rate, especially if changed within the first 30% of the air filter's life. "The practice of removing an air filter element to blow it clean is plain stupid. This malpractice, which can lead to engine wear rates being trebled, still occurs on the false economy basis of trying to extend the service life of the air filter element. A well meaning but badly trained technician thinks he is being thorough in servicing the air filter, or replacing it prior to reaching the optimum life of the element. This happens in workshops without supervisors even being aware of it." Also see: http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.html http://www.visteon.com/utils/whitepapers/2005_01_1139.pdf http://www.donaldson.com/en/filtermedia/support/datalibrary/052024.pdf SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ snip Can paper be too clean? I don't > > think so. > >snip > http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.htm I stand corrected. The answer to my question is yes, the paper can be too clean. > http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm I'd seen that before, a while back. I am curious if the filters tested were new (I would assume so). K&N specifically says their filtering will improve over time as the filter collects more dust. One can always debate how much difference that would make, but it would be an interesting comparison. - Steve Yates - If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too? ~ Taglines by Taglinator - www.srtware.com ~ >> http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm > > I'd seen that before, a while back. I am curious if the > filters > tested were new (I would assume so). K&N specifically says their > filtering will improve over time as the filter collects more dust. ...so if you leave it in long enough, you *might* begin to approach the filtering efficiency of an OEM filter. For f***'s sake. Just buy an OEM filter to begin with. Do you want an engine that lasts a long time but makes 2hp less, or do you want an engine that get 2hp more but burns oil at 100K miles? You decide. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >debate how much difference that would make, but it would be an interesting >comparison. Most filters improve efficiency (dirt trapping) as they fill up with dirt. If you study the test, you will see that the filters are new at the start. They are fed air and dirt at a carefully controlled rate and the air restriction is measured until a predetermined limit is reached indicating end of life. Then the dirt filtered and passed are weighed. The results of the test indicate that the K&N filter would need three clean and use cycles in the time the AC filter was used up and during that time it would have passed 18 times more dirt into the engine. The K&N filter is significantly less restrictive initially, but at the end of its life it is actually more restrictive than the paper filters at that point. Thus to get the full benefits of the low restriction, you must clean it even more often and further (perhaps greatly) decrease the overall efficiency of filtration. Unless you are driving a race car, the hassle and risk don't seem worth it. |
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