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Car Forum / Honda Cars / December 2007power steering problems
I recently had a new altenator put on my 1991 honda accord. My mechanic said he tightened all the belts real good. And he added quite a bit of honda power steering fluid after noticing it was low. On my way home I noticed a whining noise every time I turned to the right or left. I phoned my mech. the next day and he said he heard a slight noise when he drove it and thought it was probably a seal honda has had problems with that they have an additive for which will fix it. Later I drove it a short distance and besides the whining noise it soon became hard to steer. When I got home I shut off the car and popped the hood. I took off the reservoir cap and saw fluid foaming towards the top. Also there was fluid on top of the reservoir and all around below it. Later there was a large oil spot on the driveway below where the reservoir is. I phone my mech. again and he said he has only heard of this problem once before and wasn't able to find a fix for it. He could only say to add more fluid since I had lost so much. I did and every time I drive it, which has only been a few at short distances, I get the same results. I've never had problems before with the power steering on this car and I've owned it since 1996 when it only had 29,000 miles. Now it has 250,000 and the only front end work is 2 new front axiles and a right side A-upper arm (ball joint). Hope someone can Help!! Can't afford a new vehicle. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html A few possibilities: 1. Make sure he put in genuine Honda OEM PS fluid. In the alternative, my 1991 Civic has run fine on the PS fluid sold at Autozone and similar that specifically says for Hondas (and only Hondas, IIRC) on the front. If he put in anything else, damage may have been done to PS parts. 2. If the system was overfilled, the swishing that occurs (by design, so to speak) while running the car may have simply through some oil out of the system. Refill with genuine OEM PS fluid, per your owner's manual or the online Factory Service Manuals. Post if you don't have either. 3. Air might have been sucked into the system during the overfilled-swishing condition. You'll want to purge air from the system. It's something a DIYer can do. I have used the directions for purging the air from the PS system at http://timingbelt.soben.com/ (about 3/4s of the way down), and they work great. Report back with the outcome of these attempts. Elle Original and sole owner, 1991 Civic, 201k miles >I recently had a new altenator put on my 1991 honda accord. >My mechanic [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > (ball joint). > Hope someone can Help!! Can't afford a new vehicle. "Elle" Thanks for the quick reply and info. To answer your questions; he used only Honda OEM PS fluid and no he didn't overfill it. I've been going to this mech. for at least six yrs. At times I went to someone else and found out from him I didn't need the work done or he could do it for a lot less. He works out of his garage but use to work at a Honda dealership and was trained and certified. He also has won national competitions against other Honda mechanics. He only works on Hondas. If he thinks there is something I can do myself and save money he lets me know. Needless to say I trust this mech. He also advised me to go online and tell my problem on a forum like this. That said I know he is falliable and can still make mistakes like any other mech. and maybe when he worked on it he accidently damaged something. So if there is air in the system how else could it get there if it wasn't from overfilling? And if there is air in the system would that cause the steering to be difficult? -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html The question seems to be how the car lost the PS fluid. If it did not get "swished out" from overfilling, then sure, like your mechanic said, a PS seal might have failed. (BTW, I have seen it swish out from overfilling. While operating, the PS reservoir sees "violent action" from the fluid being pumped. That's normal. Too much fluid, and the reservoir overflows.) One really should consider an important engineering rule here. It is, "Believe your indications." The system lost PS fluid, and in the vicinity of the PS belt. These are facts. Three possible after effects of the PS fluid loss are (1) unsat system performance (e.g. does not steer as before); (2) noise due to air entry; (3) and a belt that has PS fluid on it and so is now stretched or not tight or is slipping. Air in the system compresses, but PS fluid does not. That's why the steering response will be poor after air entry. It seems too much of a coincidence for the PS system to have suddenly developed a leak that had nothing to do with your mechanic's recent work on the car. It's common sense that he likely (though admittedly not definitely) did something to cause this. He was working on the system a bit, after all, when he tightened the belt and added "quite a lot" of PS fluid. If your car's PS system lost enough fluid, then the PS pump will suck air into the system. You say he added "quite a bit" of PS fluid. It's hard to guess, but that makes me suspicious. Cars go a long time w/o needing any PS fluid. I also suspect that he overtightened the belt and/or now the belt is covered with PS fluid from the leak source. I'd be inclined to (1) replace the belt and have it properly tightened. (2) properly fill the system, including doing (3) below (3) purge the system of air > "Elle" > Thanks for the quick reply and info. To answer your [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > in the system > would that cause the steering to be difficult? > I recently had a new altenator put on my 1991 honda accord. My mechanic > said he tightened all the belts real good. And he added quite a bit of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > drove it and thought it was probably a seal honda has had problems with > that they have an additive for which will fix it. red light - never *ever* use that stuff. and hondas hardly ever have seals problems if the correct fluid has been used. > Later I drove it a > short distance and besides the whining noise it soon became hard to steer. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > work is 2 new front axiles and a right side A-upper arm (ball joint). > Hope someone can Help!! Can't afford a new vehicle. unfortunately, this doesn't sound good. honda power steering fluid is an unique formulation and non-foaming. if this individual used seal expander gunk, and then topped up your system [something that was unlikely to be necessary if it wasn't already leaking and you'd have noticed oil on your driveway before now if it was], you'll have funny noises, stiffness, foaming, spillage, and unfortunately, the need to replace all the seals on the power steering system. i would get a second opinion on this situation. it doesn't sound like this person knows what they're doing and messed your car up for you. [maybe they need the extra money and thought you'd be a trusting helpless victim?] move on and find an independent local honda specialist and get references if you can. unfortunately, this looks like you're looking at a new power steering rack and pump seals - $300 for a honda remanufactured rack - but this is cheap relative to a new car. jim beam, Thanks for helping me out. I trust my mech. though I know he may have accidently done something to cause the problem. No he didn't add any expander gunk or anything else foriegn. He used the proper fluid and didn't overfill it. I am curious about how a new power steering rack and pump seals would resolve this? Thanks again. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > jim beam, > Thanks for helping me out. I trust my mech. though I know he may have > accidently done something to cause the problem. No he didn't add any > expander gunk or anything else foriegn. He used the proper fluid and > didn't overfill it. I am curious about how a new power steering rack and > pump seals would resolve this? Thanks again. you mention additive "which will fix it". that's a problem - shouldn't ever use one. if he used that, the seals will expand, and start to bind, hence stiffer steering. but you'll also get that effect if the fluid is foamed - again, something that won't happen with the correct fluid and no additives. as for over-fill, there's hot and cold fluid levels, and they're substantially different. if he filled it to "hot" when it wasn't, it will over-expand and spill. foaming will cause spillage too.
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