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Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2008

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green antifreeze in my 93 civic

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Robert Reynolds - 15 Jan 2008 03:40 GMT
I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed
the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda.

I noticed green antifreeze in my 93 civic that I bought from a friend
recently.  What potential hazards am I dealing with?  What's the best
way to get it all out if I'm going to replace it?
AZ Nomad - 15 Jan 2008 04:17 GMT
>I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed
>the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda.

>I noticed green antifreeze in my 93 civic that I bought from a friend
>recently.  What potential hazards am I dealing with?  What's the best
>way to get it all out if I'm going to replace it?

The only hazard is that honda isn't making 9500% profit.

Flushing it out every other summer is sufficient.
loewent - 15 Jan 2008 04:54 GMT
honda has used green antifreeze in the past, does not mean its prestone.

>>I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed
>>the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Flushing it out every other summer is sufficient.
Robert Reynolds - 15 Jan 2008 05:57 GMT
So what's the deal with Prestone anyway?  Is it really a problem?
I'm pretty sure our friends weren't taking their 13 year old car to a
Honda dealer for service, by the way.

> honda has used green antifreeze in the past, does not mean its prestone.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
>> Flushing it out every other summer is sufficient.
AZ Nomad - 15 Jan 2008 12:45 GMT
>So what's the deal with Prestone anyway?  Is it really a problem?
>I'm pretty sure our friends weren't taking their 13 year old car to a
>Honda dealer for service, by the way.

What if they really really want that special feeling of pride that comes
from having spent too much?
z - 23 Jan 2008 21:47 GMT
> So what's the deal with Prestone anyway?  Is it really a problem?
> I'm pretty sure our friends weren't taking their 13 year old car to a
> Honda dealer for service, by the way.

the main thing is that older cars used silicate in the antifreeze to
eliminate scaling, supposedly that's too abrasive for hondas. i don't
know whatever else in the formula has changed.
AZ Nomad - 15 Jan 2008 12:44 GMT
>honda has used green antifreeze in the past, does not mean its prestone.

I don't give a sh.t if is blue and has little pink clovers in it.

What matters is that it has sufficient thermal mass and that it won't
corrode the cooling system.

Paying twenty times more for a half percent improvement in performance
is simple insanity.
bi241@scn.org - 15 Jan 2008 06:42 GMT
> I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed
> the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda.
>
> I noticed green antifreeze in my 93 civic that I bought from a friend
> recently.  What potential hazards am I dealing with?  What's the best
> way to get it all out if I'm going to replace it?

fluid services make up a huge portion of profit for Honda dealerships,
and so they started the campaigns for their proprietary fluids, even
motor oil!!

i like Honda engineering, but i hate their marketing with a passion.

i've never visited a dealership or buy anything from them. i bought
OEM parts elsewhere if i need too. and i'm open to aftermarket parts.
Boy! you have no idea what kind of fluid i'm running on my 89 Honda
power steering!!!

the concentration of silicate in traditional green coolant is about 59
ppm, not much, but enough for Honda's scaring tactic to work!!  and
let me tell you the green dye just won't die!!. i drained the green
coolant and re-filled the radiator with amber/yellow antifreez and now
the whole thing is green! WTF?

it's the long life aspect of the PEAK LongLife coollant, and its
compatibility with all kind of proprietary coolants (except for diesel
egnines) that appeal to me..

http://www.peakantifreeze.com/referencechart.html
Elle - 15 Jan 2008 16:25 GMT
> I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze,
> and I noticed the comments about Prestone not belonging in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> from a friend recently.  What potential hazards am I
> dealing with?

Premature water pump failure. Saw it on my 91 Civic after a
few years of using the Prestone and similar stuff. One
cannot definitely blame the coolant, of course, but other
reports here tend to support the theory. The net may have
more.

I have used the orange Havoline anti-freeze in my Civic
since about 2002, with no problems. The water pump was new
in 2001. Technically, it's due for replacement, but that's
another thread.

> What's the best way to get it all out if I'm going to
> replace it?

Part of the directions for replacing the coolant say to
remove the drain bolt on the engine block. It can be hard to
remove, but you really do want to remove it, since doing so
ensures a good drain and fill. The first time I did this on
my 91 Civic around 1993 it was very difficult to loosen. But
I did not have a deep socket, nor breaker bar yada, and was
not as handy then. Now I find it easy to remove and have
done so with little problems for the last several changes
over some eight years or so.

With the engine block drain bolt removed, you can really
flush the system pretty well, in my estimation, with a
garden hose placed in the radiator mouth, the radiator drain
plug shut, and with the water running out the engine block
drain bolt hole. For the early flushes, catch the coolant
that comes out with the water, since you don't want it
poisoning animals.

A bit of water will remain in the engine block when you are
done. You can do the persnickety calculations to account for
it and compensate with a slightly higher concentration of
anti-freeze, assuming you are using orange Havoline and not
OEM pre-mix. Or you might be fine blowing off the small
amount that stays in the block.

You will want some non-hardening high temperature sealant
for the engine block drain bolt threads. One of the Permatex
sealants says on its packaging it is good for the drain bolt
on the engine block. The sealant is per the maintenance
instructions. You will also need a new gasket for the drain
bolt.
z - 23 Jan 2008 21:52 GMT
On Jan 15, 11:25 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@nospam.earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Part of the directions for replacing the coolant say to
> remove the drain bolt on the engine block. It can be hard to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> done so with little problems for the last several changes
> over some eight years or so.

my story on this is that when i went to change the coolant myself
first time, i sweated with the bolt until i had rounded it off good,
socket and all, because the head is so shallow. when i went to the
dealer to get a replacement, they had no idea what i was talking
about. yell over to the service bays "hey charlie, you know anything
about a drain bolt in a civic engine?" charlie comes over to see,
because he has no idea what that's all about. i never did get that
bolt out.....
Elle - 23 Jan 2008 22:19 GMT
>my story on this is that when i went to change the coolant
>myself
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>to see,
>because he has no idea what that's all about.

The last sentence aboves is the one which deserves emphasis.
If Charlie is not removing that drain bolt, then why the
hell am I!? ;-)  Oh yes, because I do coolant changes better
and for less money.

> i never did get that bolt out.....

My 91 Civic engine's coolant drain bolt is a bit rounded
from the first attempt years ago. I was at the junkyard last
year sometime and removed a few of those drain bolts on c.
1990 Civics. (I wanted to see if there was a gasket there or
not; long story.) They generally came off easily.

It's probably best to make the attempt in either warmer
weather, with a slightly warm engine, or both. Come to think
of it, the first time I drained the coolant was a chilly
autumn or late winter day in the Midwest.

Or maybe Honda uses a fancier sealant (compared to the
Permatex I use) on those drain bolt threads when the car
comes right out of the factory. Or right out of the factory
that puppy is really torqued. Either perhaps could be making
the first loosening of the drain bolt difficult.
z - 24 Jan 2008 16:38 GMT
> It's probably best to make the attempt in either warmer
> weather, with a slightly warm engine, or both. Come to think
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> that puppy is really torqued. Either perhaps could be making
> the first loosening of the drain bolt difficult.

it was mostly bad access; the bolt is behind the exhaust manifold, and
getting a straight shot was difficult, and like I said the head is
very flat, so that the socket was canted somewhat sideways and just
kept falling off rounding off the head. at least i could see that i
would want to replace it with an intact bolt. my plan was to goop up
the bolt with the teflon based sealant so that it would be better
behaved next time. now you've got me all enthused to try it again.

hey, maybe i can buy a set of headers, and take the opportunity to
access the bolt while the manifold is off.... now look what you've
done.
z - 23 Jan 2008 21:46 GMT
> I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed
> the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda.
>
> I noticed green antifreeze in my 93 civic that I bought from a friend
> recently.  What potential hazards am I dealing with?  What's the best
> way to get it all out if I'm going to replace it?

my official honda antifreeze seems to be green.
dan - 24 Jan 2008 16:30 GMT
> my official honda antifreeze seems to be green.

From what I've heard, the "new" honda antifreeze is also green, like the
old silicate kind.  Just to confuse us?

I just use the "new" prestone orange stuff in my old honda and acura.
Cheaper too.  I don't buy the "honda fluids" only except when it comes
to power steering fluid, and even then I use a generic brand.

dan
z - 24 Jan 2008 16:39 GMT
> > my official honda antifreeze seems to be green.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> dan

I have actually replaced my blood with Honda brand Driver Circulatory
Fluid, in order to get the longest life from my automobile. It's
expensive, but I figure it's worth it.
Tegger - 24 Jan 2008 19:06 GMT
z <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:ea241a63-b938-40ac-a185-
82a9d7125685@k39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

>> > my official honda antifreeze seems to be green.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Fluid, in order to get the longest life from my automobile. It's
> expensive, but I figure it's worth it.

Don't turn your head unless you've replaced your fluid with official
Honda Head Turning Fluid. Otherwise, damage will result to the neck
and spinal column assembly.

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

z - 25 Jan 2008 21:20 GMT
> Don't turn your head unless you've replaced your fluid with official
> Honda Head Turning Fluid. Otherwise, damage will result to the neck
> and spinal column assembly.

too late. you oughta hear it creaking and groaning.

how'd your engine swap ever turn out?
Tegger - 26 Jan 2008 01:29 GMT
z <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:a9ce48a3-c522-41a6-8675-
0eec43ddc514@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

>> Don't turn your head unless you've replaced your fluid with official
>> Honda Head Turning Fluid. Otherwise, damage will result to the neck
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> how'd your engine swap ever turn out?

Never did it.

I have been keeping extremely close observation of my oil consumption
over the last year or so. Excessive oil consumption was the primary
reason I was considering an engine replacement, so I wanted to perform a
rigorously controlled study of just what was getting sucked though the
motor.

Well.

It's been roughly 1,500 miles per quart for a long time (I determine
this after correcting for an earlier error in interpreting dipstick
markings).

Very lately consumption has been DECREASING.

In November it was 1,500 mi/qt.
In December it was 1,800 mi/qt.

I just checked it now, the proverbial bell having rung to indicate it
was time for another reading. I checked, then checked again. And again.
I even went pessimistic on my dipstick reading.
It's 2,500 mi/qt. At least.

I do not know what's going on here. Each year there is a decrease
corresponding to the winter drop in ambient temperatures, but this is
the most consumption has declined in several years. And this has not
been a particularly cold winter.

Some time ago I posted a query to rec.autos.tech about this, and it was
suggested to me that I probably had a collapsed oil control ring spacer.
In such a case, there would be sudden increase in oil usage, then the
piston groove would eventually carbon up and usage would decline. Maybe
this is the explanation.

Without having X-Ray vision and being able to see inside the engine,
this is a real mystery,

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam - 26 Jan 2008 02:05 GMT
> z <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:a9ce48a3-c522-41a6-8675-
> 0eec43ddc514@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> Without having X-Ray vision and being able to see inside the engine,
> this is a real mystery,

you've changed oil though haven't you?  my 89 civic used to burn regular
oil but that's dropped dramatically using mobil 1.  and it continues to
drop too.

i have two theories.

1. there's less volatile fraction in the base oil of m1 to evaporate.
[regular oil is a mix of weights.  the light ones are easier to boil off.]

2. i read about piston aero engine oil not having viscosity modifiers
because they tend to ash around the piston rings.  if this is the case,
and m1 is proving to be a very effective cleaner of my previously
resined up engine, i can see it getting rid of piston ring deposits
allowing them to seal better again.

i'm basing 1 on what i know to be fact about the mix and basic
chemistry.  2, i'm guessing, but i don't buy the collapsed ring spacer -
that would make consumption go to heck, and it wouldn't start to seal
after time - it would just continue to deteriorate.

but for sure, my experience of m1 is the same as yours.
z - 28 Jan 2008 20:26 GMT
> > z <gzuck...@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:a9ce48a3-c522-41a6-8675-
> > 0eec43ddc...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

could be just plain old chemistry. oil contains various 'seal
swellers' and undoubtedly every brand has its own concoction, maybe
the brew in Mobil 1 just happens to suit what your engine needs better
than other brands. just handwaving here, but given mobil 1's ability
to creep and leak, could be they even put in a more powerful sweller
to keep things under control, relying on the increased lubrication of
the oil to keep the seals from wearing more when swelled.
z - 28 Jan 2008 20:27 GMT
> z <gzuck...@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:a9ce48a3-c522-41a6-8675-
> 0eec43ddc...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

well, even 1500 miles isn't too bad. i'm going through a quart of oil
every gas fillup or two, but that's just because my vtec solenoid is
spraying oil like a texas gusher.
Tegger - 24 Jan 2008 19:04 GMT
>> my official honda antifreeze seems to be green.
>
>  From what I've heard, the "new" honda antifreeze is also green, like the
> old silicate kind.  Just to confuse us?

Official Honda coolant is transparent dark blue and has been for at least
several years.

The old Honda coolant was green. It was not the bright fluorescent green
that's associated with Prestone, but a transparent, dull, dark green.

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

dan - 24 Jan 2008 21:18 GMT
>>> my official honda antifreeze seems to be green.
>>  From what I've heard, the "new" honda antifreeze is also green, like the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The old Honda coolant was green. It was not the bright fluorescent green
> that's associated with Prestone, but a transparent, dull, dark green.

I stand corrected, thank you.  Actually, I'm glad they make it a
different color.

dan
Tegger - 24 Jan 2008 23:31 GMT
>>>> my official honda antifreeze seems to be green.
>>>  From what I've heard, the "new" honda antifreeze is also green,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> I stand corrected, thank you.  Actually, I'm glad they make it a
> different color.

So am I. The blue goes so well with the color of my valve cover.

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/


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