Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2008
green antifreeze in my 93 civic
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Robert Reynolds - 15 Jan 2008 03:40 GMT I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda.
I noticed green antifreeze in my 93 civic that I bought from a friend recently. What potential hazards am I dealing with? What's the best way to get it all out if I'm going to replace it?
AZ Nomad - 15 Jan 2008 04:17 GMT >I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed >the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda.
>I noticed green antifreeze in my 93 civic that I bought from a friend >recently. What potential hazards am I dealing with? What's the best >way to get it all out if I'm going to replace it? The only hazard is that honda isn't making 9500% profit.
Flushing it out every other summer is sufficient.
loewent - 15 Jan 2008 04:54 GMT honda has used green antifreeze in the past, does not mean its prestone.
>>I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed >>the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Flushing it out every other summer is sufficient. Robert Reynolds - 15 Jan 2008 05:57 GMT So what's the deal with Prestone anyway? Is it really a problem? I'm pretty sure our friends weren't taking their 13 year old car to a Honda dealer for service, by the way.
> honda has used green antifreeze in the past, does not mean its prestone. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> Flushing it out every other summer is sufficient. AZ Nomad - 15 Jan 2008 12:45 GMT >So what's the deal with Prestone anyway? Is it really a problem? >I'm pretty sure our friends weren't taking their 13 year old car to a >Honda dealer for service, by the way. What if they really really want that special feeling of pride that comes from having spent too much?
z - 23 Jan 2008 21:47 GMT > So what's the deal with Prestone anyway? Is it really a problem? > I'm pretty sure our friends weren't taking their 13 year old car to a > Honda dealer for service, by the way. the main thing is that older cars used silicate in the antifreeze to eliminate scaling, supposedly that's too abrasive for hondas. i don't know whatever else in the formula has changed.
AZ Nomad - 15 Jan 2008 12:44 GMT >honda has used green antifreeze in the past, does not mean its prestone. I don't give a sh.t if is blue and has little pink clovers in it.
What matters is that it has sufficient thermal mass and that it won't corrode the cooling system.
Paying twenty times more for a half percent improvement in performance is simple insanity.
bi241@scn.org - 15 Jan 2008 06:42 GMT > I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed > the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda. > > I noticed green antifreeze in my 93 civic that I bought from a friend > recently. What potential hazards am I dealing with? What's the best > way to get it all out if I'm going to replace it? fluid services make up a huge portion of profit for Honda dealerships, and so they started the campaigns for their proprietary fluids, even motor oil!!
i like Honda engineering, but i hate their marketing with a passion.
i've never visited a dealership or buy anything from them. i bought OEM parts elsewhere if i need too. and i'm open to aftermarket parts. Boy! you have no idea what kind of fluid i'm running on my 89 Honda power steering!!!
the concentration of silicate in traditional green coolant is about 59 ppm, not much, but enough for Honda's scaring tactic to work!! and let me tell you the green dye just won't die!!. i drained the green coolant and re-filled the radiator with amber/yellow antifreez and now the whole thing is green! WTF?
it's the long life aspect of the PEAK LongLife coollant, and its compatibility with all kind of proprietary coolants (except for diesel egnines) that appeal to me..
http://www.peakantifreeze.com/referencechart.html
Elle - 15 Jan 2008 16:25 GMT > I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, > and I noticed the comments about Prestone not belonging in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > from a friend recently. What potential hazards am I > dealing with? Premature water pump failure. Saw it on my 91 Civic after a few years of using the Prestone and similar stuff. One cannot definitely blame the coolant, of course, but other reports here tend to support the theory. The net may have more.
I have used the orange Havoline anti-freeze in my Civic since about 2002, with no problems. The water pump was new in 2001. Technically, it's due for replacement, but that's another thread.
> What's the best way to get it all out if I'm going to > replace it? Part of the directions for replacing the coolant say to remove the drain bolt on the engine block. It can be hard to remove, but you really do want to remove it, since doing so ensures a good drain and fill. The first time I did this on my 91 Civic around 1993 it was very difficult to loosen. But I did not have a deep socket, nor breaker bar yada, and was not as handy then. Now I find it easy to remove and have done so with little problems for the last several changes over some eight years or so.
With the engine block drain bolt removed, you can really flush the system pretty well, in my estimation, with a garden hose placed in the radiator mouth, the radiator drain plug shut, and with the water running out the engine block drain bolt hole. For the early flushes, catch the coolant that comes out with the water, since you don't want it poisoning animals.
A bit of water will remain in the engine block when you are done. You can do the persnickety calculations to account for it and compensate with a slightly higher concentration of anti-freeze, assuming you are using orange Havoline and not OEM pre-mix. Or you might be fine blowing off the small amount that stays in the block.
You will want some non-hardening high temperature sealant for the engine block drain bolt threads. One of the Permatex sealants says on its packaging it is good for the drain bolt on the engine block. The sealant is per the maintenance instructions. You will also need a new gasket for the drain bolt.
z - 23 Jan 2008 21:52 GMT On Jan 15, 11:25 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
> Part of the directions for replacing the coolant say to > remove the drain bolt on the engine block. It can be hard to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > done so with little problems for the last several changes > over some eight years or so. my story on this is that when i went to change the coolant myself first time, i sweated with the bolt until i had rounded it off good, socket and all, because the head is so shallow. when i went to the dealer to get a replacement, they had no idea what i was talking about. yell over to the service bays "hey charlie, you know anything about a drain bolt in a civic engine?" charlie comes over to see, because he has no idea what that's all about. i never did get that bolt out.....
Elle - 23 Jan 2008 22:19 GMT >my story on this is that when i went to change the coolant >myself [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >to see, >because he has no idea what that's all about. The last sentence aboves is the one which deserves emphasis. If Charlie is not removing that drain bolt, then why the hell am I!? ;-) Oh yes, because I do coolant changes better and for less money.
> i never did get that bolt out..... My 91 Civic engine's coolant drain bolt is a bit rounded from the first attempt years ago. I was at the junkyard last year sometime and removed a few of those drain bolts on c. 1990 Civics. (I wanted to see if there was a gasket there or not; long story.) They generally came off easily.
It's probably best to make the attempt in either warmer weather, with a slightly warm engine, or both. Come to think of it, the first time I drained the coolant was a chilly autumn or late winter day in the Midwest.
Or maybe Honda uses a fancier sealant (compared to the Permatex I use) on those drain bolt threads when the car comes right out of the factory. Or right out of the factory that puppy is really torqued. Either perhaps could be making the first loosening of the drain bolt difficult.
z - 24 Jan 2008 16:38 GMT > It's probably best to make the attempt in either warmer > weather, with a slightly warm engine, or both. Come to think [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that puppy is really torqued. Either perhaps could be making > the first loosening of the drain bolt difficult. it was mostly bad access; the bolt is behind the exhaust manifold, and getting a straight shot was difficult, and like I said the head is very flat, so that the socket was canted somewhat sideways and just kept falling off rounding off the head. at least i could see that i would want to replace it with an intact bolt. my plan was to goop up the bolt with the teflon based sealant so that it would be better behaved next time. now you've got me all enthused to try it again.
hey, maybe i can buy a set of headers, and take the opportunity to access the bolt while the manifold is off.... now look what you've done.
z - 23 Jan 2008 21:46 GMT > I've been following the thread on Honda brand antifreeze, and I noticed > the comments about Prestone not belonging in a Honda. > > I noticed green antifreeze in my 93 civic that I bought from a friend > recently. What potential hazards am I dealing with? What's the best > way to get it all out if I'm going to replace it? my official honda antifreeze seems to be green.
dan - 24 Jan 2008 16:30 GMT > my official honda antifreeze seems to be green. From what I've heard, the "new" honda antifreeze is also green, like the old silicate kind. Just to confuse us?
I just use the "new" prestone orange stuff in my old honda and acura. Cheaper too. I don't buy the "honda fluids" only except when it comes to power steering fluid, and even then I use a generic brand.
dan
z - 24 Jan 2008 16:39 GMT > > my official honda antifreeze seems to be green. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > dan I have actually replaced my blood with Honda brand Driver Circulatory Fluid, in order to get the longest life from my automobile. It's expensive, but I figure it's worth it.
Tegger - 24 Jan 2008 19:06 GMT z <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:ea241a63-b938-40ac-a185- 82a9d7125685@k39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>> > my official honda antifreeze seems to be green. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Fluid, in order to get the longest life from my automobile. It's > expensive, but I figure it's worth it. Don't turn your head unless you've replaced your fluid with official Honda Head Turning Fluid. Otherwise, damage will result to the neck and spinal column assembly.
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z - 25 Jan 2008 21:20 GMT > Don't turn your head unless you've replaced your fluid with official > Honda Head Turning Fluid. Otherwise, damage will result to the neck > and spinal column assembly. too late. you oughta hear it creaking and groaning.
how'd your engine swap ever turn out?
Tegger - 26 Jan 2008 01:29 GMT z <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:a9ce48a3-c522-41a6-8675- 0eec43ddc514@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>> Don't turn your head unless you've replaced your fluid with official >> Honda Head Turning Fluid. Otherwise, damage will result to the neck [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > how'd your engine swap ever turn out? Never did it.
I have been keeping extremely close observation of my oil consumption over the last year or so. Excessive oil consumption was the primary reason I was considering an engine replacement, so I wanted to perform a rigorously controlled study of just what was getting sucked though the motor.
Well.
It's been roughly 1,500 miles per quart for a long time (I determine this after correcting for an earlier error in interpreting dipstick markings).
Very lately consumption has been DECREASING.
In November it was 1,500 mi/qt. In December it was 1,800 mi/qt.
I just checked it now, the proverbial bell having rung to indicate it was time for another reading. I checked, then checked again. And again. I even went pessimistic on my dipstick reading. It's 2,500 mi/qt. At least.
I do not know what's going on here. Each year there is a decrease corresponding to the winter drop in ambient temperatures, but this is the most consumption has declined in several years. And this has not been a particularly cold winter.
Some time ago I posted a query to rec.autos.tech about this, and it was suggested to me that I probably had a collapsed oil control ring spacer. In such a case, there would be sudden increase in oil usage, then the piston groove would eventually carbon up and usage would decline. Maybe this is the explanation.
Without having X-Ray vision and being able to see inside the engine, this is a real mystery,
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
jim beam - 26 Jan 2008 02:05 GMT > z <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:a9ce48a3-c522-41a6-8675- > 0eec43ddc514@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Without having X-Ray vision and being able to see inside the engine, > this is a real mystery, you've changed oil though haven't you? my 89 civic used to burn regular oil but that's dropped dramatically using mobil 1. and it continues to drop too.
i have two theories.
1. there's less volatile fraction in the base oil of m1 to evaporate. [regular oil is a mix of weights. the light ones are easier to boil off.]
2. i read about piston aero engine oil not having viscosity modifiers because they tend to ash around the piston rings. if this is the case, and m1 is proving to be a very effective cleaner of my previously resined up engine, i can see it getting rid of piston ring deposits allowing them to seal better again.
i'm basing 1 on what i know to be fact about the mix and basic chemistry. 2, i'm guessing, but i don't buy the collapsed ring spacer - that would make consumption go to heck, and it wouldn't start to seal after time - it would just continue to deteriorate.
but for sure, my experience of m1 is the same as yours.
z - 28 Jan 2008 20:26 GMT > > z <gzuck...@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:a9ce48a3-c522-41a6-8675- > > 0eec43ddc...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > - Show quoted text - could be just plain old chemistry. oil contains various 'seal swellers' and undoubtedly every brand has its own concoction, maybe the brew in Mobil 1 just happens to suit what your engine needs better than other brands. just handwaving here, but given mobil 1's ability to creep and leak, could be they even put in a more powerful sweller to keep things under control, relying on the increased lubrication of the oil to keep the seals from wearing more when swelled.
z - 28 Jan 2008 20:27 GMT > z <gzuck...@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:a9ce48a3-c522-41a6-8675- > 0eec43ddc...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ well, even 1500 miles isn't too bad. i'm going through a quart of oil every gas fillup or two, but that's just because my vtec solenoid is spraying oil like a texas gusher.
Tegger - 24 Jan 2008 19:04 GMT >> my official honda antifreeze seems to be green. > > From what I've heard, the "new" honda antifreeze is also green, like the > old silicate kind. Just to confuse us? Official Honda coolant is transparent dark blue and has been for at least several years.
The old Honda coolant was green. It was not the bright fluorescent green that's associated with Prestone, but a transparent, dull, dark green.
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
dan - 24 Jan 2008 21:18 GMT >>> my official honda antifreeze seems to be green. >> From what I've heard, the "new" honda antifreeze is also green, like the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The old Honda coolant was green. It was not the bright fluorescent green > that's associated with Prestone, but a transparent, dull, dark green. I stand corrected, thank you. Actually, I'm glad they make it a different color.
dan
Tegger - 24 Jan 2008 23:31 GMT >>>> my official honda antifreeze seems to be green. >>> From what I've heard, the "new" honda antifreeze is also green, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I stand corrected, thank you. Actually, I'm glad they make it a > different color. So am I. The blue goes so well with the color of my valve cover.
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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