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Car Forum / Honda Cars / March 2008Replacing Oxygen Sensor.
I'm going to try and replace my O2 sensor that came up bad during diagnostics, and my tabs are already expired. I understand there are two O2 sensors on my model: Honda Accord 98 EX 4Cyc Vtec. Is this something the average joe can locate and replace, or do I need to take in into the shop? Many thanks, --TJ One sensor is upstream of the cat converter (= pre cat); the other is downstream (= post cat). Find out which one it is. Then look at parts drawings at bkhondaparts.com to help find it. On many Hondas these are easy to replace. You can borrow an Oxygen sensor wrench from Autozone for a returnable deposit. I recommend doing so. Also, buy a can of the penetrating oil "PB Blaster" at Autozone or Wal-Mart or similar. Soak the threads region of the O2 sensor for an hour before trying to remove it. It might help if the auto is a little warm when you actually try to unscrew the sensor. Be careful not to burn yourself. Best prices I have found for OEM O2 sensors: automedicsupply.com . Cost you about $170 for the pre cat. $75 for post cat. Ball park. Only buy OEM for this part. > I'm going to try and replace my O2 sensor that came up bad > during [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > or do I need > to take in into the shop? > One sensor is upstream of the cat converter (= pre cat); the > other is downstream (= post cat). Find out which one it is. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > or do I need > > to take in into the shop? I can't find a diagram of an O2 sensor on their website, maybe using a different term? --TJ After putting your car's identifying info in at www.bkhondaparts.com , do a "list all." Click on "exhaust manifold." The pre cat one appears. Click on "exhaust pipe" for the post cat one. These sites are a little tricky to navigate at first. Persist. :-) > I can't find a diagram of an O2 sensor on their website, > maybe using a > different term? > After putting your car's identifying info in at > www.bkhondaparts.com , do a "list all." Click on "exhaust [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > These sites are a little tricky to navigate at first. > Persist. :-) Another option, go to the Parts Dept. at your local Honda dealer, have them look up your part and ask the guy/gal to print out that page. I've done this a couple of times and the printouts have good resolution. > Another option, go to the Parts Dept. at your local Honda > dealer, have them look up your part and ask the guy/gal to > print out that page. I've done this a couple of times and > the printouts have good resolution. Do you know how many Honda dealer parts departments now provide illustrations free online? bkhondaparts.com is likely one of dozens or even hundreds at this point. >> Another option, go to the Parts Dept. at your local Honda >> dealer, have them look up your part and ask the guy/gal to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > bkhondaparts.com is likely one of dozens or even hundreds at > this point. Right, but the printouts have better resolution in my experience. > Elle wrote: >>> Another option, go to the Parts Dept. at your local [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Right, but the printouts have better resolution in my > experience. At some online sites, the resolution is indeed poor. At others, it's good. I would not count on dealer parts printouts to necessarily be superior. >> Elle wrote: >>>> Another option, go to the Parts Dept. at your local [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > others, it's good. I would not count on dealer parts > printouts to necessarily be superior. Based on my experience, so far, so good. I tossed it out as an option, not a directive. > After putting your car's identifying info in atwww.bkhondaparts.com, do a "list all." Click on "exhaust > manifold." The pre cat one appears. Click on "exhaust pipe" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > maybe using a > > different term? Good news. I purchased an O2 sensor off of EBAY for really cheap (new), loaned the tool out from Auto Zone, jacked up the car, and replaced the O2 sensor near the front passenger tire. Total time: 10 minutes. The check engine light is now gone, and I'm looking forward to passing my emissions, since my tabs have expired. Thanks everybody! >> After putting your car's identifying info in atwww.bkhondaparts.com, do a "list all." Click on "exhaust >> manifold." The pre cat one appears. Click on "exhaust pipe" [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Thanks everybody! Good news, I guess you replaced the pre-cat sensor. > techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: > >> After putting your car's identifying info in atwww.bkhondaparts.com, do a "list all." Click on "exhaust [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Good news, I guess you replaced the pre-cat sensor. So, does this mean that both of O2 sensors have gone bad? Thanks, --JP >> techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> After putting your car's identifying info in atwww.bkhondaparts.com, do a "list all." Click on "exhaust [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > --JP that's why you need the code - without it, you're wasting time and money. you can get it read free at many of the local auto parts retailers. or you can buy your own code reader for as little as ~$60. > techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: > >> techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > money. you can get it read free at many of the local auto parts > retailers. or you can buy your own code reader for as little as ~$60. OK, so the sensor located after the catalytic converter is in the front? >> techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > OK, so the sensor located after the catalytic converter is in the > front? what is the code? > techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: > >> techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > what is the code? OK. Autozone checked and found the codes: 0401 and 0420, which the 0401 is the PRG and 0420 is the catalytic converter, but when they checked the ECU a month ago, the only code was for the O2 sensor. Now after replacing the O2 sensor, the check engine light doesn't come on until I drive the car for 50 miles, which I'm guessing is how long it takes to complete the tests that are returning the codes above. I would be convinced that I have to replace my catalytic converter, but I've already replaced it about 1-year ago, and it was an OEM, and not a generic catalytic converter. Need to pass emissions soon. Thanks, --TJ >> techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > OK. Autozone checked and found the codes: 0401 and 0420, which the > 0401 is the PRG http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/generic/p0401-insufficient-exhaust-gas-re circulation-flow-egr.php > and 0420 is the catalytic converter, http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/generic/p0420-catalyst-efficiency-below-t hreshold-bank-1.php > but when they > checked the ECU a month ago, the only code was for the O2 sensor. Now [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > --TJ i suggest you reset the codes and give this car an "italian tune-up". that may clean up the catalyst sufficiently to have it process the exhaust correctly. if that doesn't work, consider replacing the second sensor, the one that is downstream of the cat. egr problems are common and a huge pita, so you need to deal with that as a separate issue. google this group for solution. in the future, i will help you to stick only to good quality branded gasoline, not discount stuff. On Feb 5, 2:20 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > One sensor is upstream of the cat converter (= pre cat); the > > other is downstream (= post cat). Find out which one it is. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > --TJ Found it. On Feb 5, 12:30 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm going to try and replace my O2 sensor that came up bad during > diagnostics, and my tabs are already expired. I understand there are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > --TJ OK this is frustrating! Again, the check engine light came on. This has been consistent since I've owned the car. The light will go away for a period of time, but then again come back. It's almost like it's misreading the O2 sensor? Maybe I replaced the wrong one? If I disconnect the battery, I'm sure the light will go away again, this time it took longer to come back on. Last time this happened, I was able to pass emissions since the light didn't come on until I left the emissions. --TJ > On Feb 5, 12:30 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > --TJ what is the code number? > techjoh...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Feb 5, 12:30 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > what is the code number? I'll have to have that checked out tomorrow. On Feb 5, 3:30 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm going to try and replace my O2 sensor that came up bad during > diagnostics, and my tabs are already expired. I understand there are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > --TJ make sure you use oem like denso i am so cheap and this is the only way i go as much as i hate to stay away from bosch unless you want more error codes also the ULEV 4cyl has a different o2 sensor more $$$ make sure you know exactly which vtec engine you have or more wasted $$$$ most times the o2 on the maniford goes (pre cat) but you really need to know what code the computer id kicking out to say for sure last tip make sure no anti sieze gets on the o2 tip when you install On Feb 5, 1:30 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm going to try and replace my O2 sensor that came up bad during > diagnostics, and my tabs are already expired. I understand there are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > --TJ Ended up having the replace the catalyst converter and post cat o2 sensor. The shop I took it to charged me $343 that included parts, labor, and tax. They ended up having to do a little welding, so if the check engine light stays off, I will consider this a success. At that price, should I use this shop in the future? Thanks, --TJ > Ended up having the replace the catalyst converter and > post cat o2 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > At that price, should I use this shop in the future? A catalytic converter all by itself runs about $400 at online OEM Honda parts sites. Add another $100 for an OEM O2 sensor. They did it so cheaply I bet they used non-OEM all the way around. Dunno if that's okay for the cat converter. Around here, many of us feel only OEM is the way to go with the O2 sensor. The underlying cause of the failed converter needs to be considered. F23A1 or F23A4 engine? Calif emissions? Probably not given the $343 price tag. But the catalytic converter is usually the victim and not the villain. So make sure the engine is properly tuned up. When was the last time you had the valve clearances checked? Might want to do that on your next "tune up". If the clearances are tight, especially on the exhausts, swap out with NGK Iridium plugs and, on a non-calif vehcile, a new Bosch planar type sensor (#15730, F23A1, $65.79 rockauto.com) for the upstream. Planars are more resistant to contamination as well. I know many like OEM sensors. If they are NTK/NGK fine, but I don't really care for Densos. Even their plugs are cheap compared to NGKs. Glad I didn't recommend a converter replacement for a V6 owner. Two Bosch planars solved it for me, and the Denso junk didn't even set a code. On Mar 20, 3:10 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ended up having the replace the catalyst converter and post cat o2 > sensor. The shop I took it to charged me $343 that included parts, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > --TJ On Mar 22, 5:17 pm, johngd...@hotmail.com wrote: > F23A1 or F23A4 engine? Calif emissions? Probably not given the $343 > price tag. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > --TJ On to replacing the EGR valve, which hopefully will get my car to pass emissions. --JP On Mar 24, 1:10 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 22, 5:17 pm, johngd...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Replaced EGR valve, and now I'm still getting P401. The shop said to bring it in to clean out the system for less than $100. I guess they have to clean out the pipe before the EGR valve, which is something I can do they said, but it's very time consuming. Any advice? Thanks, --TJ On Mar 26, 2:34 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 24, 1:10 pm, "techjoh...@gmail.com" <techjoh...@gmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > --TJ Finally passed WA Emissions. My 98 Honda Accord has 215K rough miles that includes trips to TX and CA and several months in Dallas. Also, I drive daily in heavy traffic. Problem: Check engine light. Codes reported: P401 and P420 Solution: Replaced O2 Sensor (POST CAT), Replaced Catalyst converter, Replaced EGR Valve, and cleaned EGR passage. Cost: Catalyst Converter $150, O2 Sensor $50, EGR Valve $125, and Service $250. Oh yeah, I received two traffic violation tickets which were for $216/ea, but I'm going to take the second ticket to mitigation. Thanks to this group for their experience and help. --TJ >>snip<< >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > --TJ Congratulations on a long battle won. I just finished a 6 month battle with a recalcitrant 98 Civic HX MT that threw P401 and P1491 codes continually at the end. Finally resolved the issue(s) with a new EGR valve and cleaning passageways. I did it myself and wrote it up with pics that should be on the web shortly. Look for the announcement any day now.  SignaturePickleman halfsour@roadyourpantsrunner.com Please remove "yourpants" to reply 1988 Civic DX retired with 234K due to extensive rust and gas tank problems 1998 Civic HX MT with 138K 2000 CRV EX MT with 98K
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