Car Forum / Honda Cars / March 2008
Tegger's latest oil consumption test
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Tegger - 22 Feb 2008 23:17 GMT As regulars here will know, I keep very close tabs on my oil consumption, trying to make the observation as close to a science as possible.
My latest test period (ended today) reveals consumption of 2,150 miles per US quart.
Thus far in my record keeping: 1,500 mi/qt at 295,417 miles; 1,800 mi/qt at 296,494 miles; 2,500 mi/qt from 296,919 to 297,919; 2,150 mi/qt from 298,032 to 299,184.
It's been roughly 1,500-2,000 mi/qt for a few years now, but lately I've decided to keep much more exacting records in an attempt at determining consumption more precisely, and for spotting any trends or correlations. I decided to do this after experiencing a few apparent episodes of alarmingly high oil usage the summer before last.
I have discovered there is a direct relationship between how hard I drive and the oil consumption. The higher the revs, the greater the throttle openings used, the higher the oil consumption. This is, it has been explained to me, a sign of a well-worn engine.
As a contrast, our Toyota Tercel has 90,000 miles on it. Normally it uses no discernible oil between 2,500 mile oil changes. Last summer we passed through the hills of Pennsylvania, all the way across PA to VA and DC. That little engine therefore spent much of its time at full-throttle and high revs, attempting not to lose speed on very long upward grades on the Interstates. During that entire trip, the car used something around 1/8 or 1/4 of a quart in something like 1,000 miles. It would appear that even new-ish engines with good rings are still prone to higher oil usage under extended heavy load.
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jim beam - 23 Feb 2008 19:11 GMT > As regulars here will know, I keep very close tabs on my oil consumption, > trying to make the observation as close to a science as possible. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > new-ish engines with good rings are still prone to higher oil usage under > extended heavy load. entirely to be expected. increasing load raises operating temperatures and thus burn-off. use of a quality oil with a lower light fraction will reduce burn-off rate as well.
Tegger - 24 Feb 2008 21:20 GMT > entirely to be expected. increasing load raises operating > temperatures and thus burn-off. use of a quality oil with a lower > light fraction will reduce burn-off rate as well. I got your email and I see your point, but I've been using Mobil 1 for well over a year now. If burn-off was a problem, I'd think I would have expected to see immediate improvement in oil consumption within the first or second oil change ( I change it every two months or so).
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Flatlander - 28 Feb 2008 02:00 GMT >> entirely to be expected. increasing load raises operating >> temperatures and thus burn-off. use of a quality oil with a lower [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to see immediate improvement in oil consumption within the first or second >oil change ( I change it every two months or so). It would be interesting to see what effect all the variables have on this. I have an '87 CRX automatic that has never had any seals replaced other than for the timing belt change. 147K miles on the car. If it uses even 1/8 of a quart between changes, which vary from 2000-3000 miles, I don't remember it. This with regular 10W-40 oil. I've actually been a bit suspicious at the lack of oil usage, this being a carbureted engine in a sometimes cold climate and all.
I have never had a Honda that used any oil. On the other hand, I have never had a non-Honda (mostly GM products years ago) that DIDN'T use at least half a quart between changes.
Frank Boettcher - 25 Feb 2008 15:08 GMT >As regulars here will know, I keep very close tabs on my oil consumption, >trying to make the observation as close to a science as possible. > >My latest test period (ended today) reveals consumption of 2,150 miles per >US quart. Curious as to whether it is all burn, no leak.
Frank
Tegger - 25 Feb 2008 22:07 GMT >>As regulars here will know, I keep very close tabs on my oil >>consumption, trying to make the observation as close to a science as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > Curious as to whether it is all burn, no leak. All burn.
The car doesn't leak a single drop.
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Frank Boettcher - 27 Feb 2008 18:44 GMT >>>As regulars here will know, I keep very close tabs on my oil >>>consumption, trying to make the observation as close to a science as [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >The car doesn't leak a single drop. That's pretty good. Seals been replaced? How often?
I've got a '90 and at 185K just starting to burn a very little, just starting to leak a very little.
Got a 97 pushing 200K, leaks something awful. It is set for replacement, gave it to my son 6 years ago, he wants a new Fit for his daily commute.
Frank
Tegger - 28 Feb 2008 00:28 GMT >>>>As regulars here will know, I keep very close tabs on my oil >>>>consumption, trying to make the observation as close to a science as [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > That's pretty good. Seals been replaced? How often? All the original front seals were replaced at the car's second timing belt change. We're going back a few years here. One of the cam seals was weeping a bit, the other two were fine. I learned later that in the early '90s there was a TSB out on my car having to do with leaky camshaft oil seals.
The rear main seal was replaced at 255,000 miles when the clutch was changed. The old seal was not leaking, amazingly enough.
The exhaust cam seal was replaced maybe five-seven years ago. This is the big plug that is notorious for leaking.
The distributor O-ring is original and is not leaking.
> I've got a '90 and at 185K just starting to burn a very little, just > starting to leak a very little. > > Got a 97 pushing 200K, leaks something awful. It is set for > replacement, gave it to my son 6 years ago, he wants a new Fit for his > daily commute. I am convinced that very frequent oil changes stave off seal leakage. I change my oil every two months or 2,500 miles. No matter what.
My mechanic explained to me that modern oil seals generally leak not because they wear out or harden, but because they develop tiny surface cracks. Acid etching and poor lubrication from old oil lead to the hairline tears.
I have another timing belt change coming up this spring. All the seals are getting replaced again, just in case.
Today's mileage: 299,406! Getting closer!
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Grumpy AuContraire - 28 Feb 2008 02:14 GMT > I have another timing belt change coming up this spring. All the seals are > getting replaced again, just in case. > > Today's mileage: 299,406! Getting closer! That's quite an acomplishment for living in the rust belt...
JT
Tegger - 29 Feb 2008 00:14 GMT >> I have another timing belt change coming up this spring. All the >> seals are getting replaced again, just in case. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > JT Keeping the /body/ alive is the real accomplishment!
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Grumpy AuContraire - 29 Feb 2008 00:40 GMT >>>I have another timing belt change coming up this spring. All the >>>seals are getting replaced again, just in case. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Keeping the /body/ alive is the real accomplishment! I remember in the late 1960's when I was doing film work in the Marshall Islands, cars would last anywhere from one to three years because of rust. The worst were datsuns where the exhaust would fall off in three months, the body would be virtually unusable after nine to ten months.
The trucks would last a little longer due to them having a frame. On Majuro, the high school shop teacher totally removed the body/bed off the frame and built a big plywood box with large open air portholes. He made it last for about four or five years and was known as the island's "plywood king."
JT
Tegger - 29 Feb 2008 01:03 GMT >> Keeping the /body/ alive is the real accomplishment! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > off in three months, the body would be virtually unusable after nine > to ten months. That's the sea air, obviously.
We had similar things happen up here, but that took eight-ten years or so. Japanese cars back then (and Fiats!) were terrible for rust. It was not uncommon for struts to poke through the strut towers and dent the hoods.
Speaking of sea air... If you're ever at Redondo Beach near LA, have a look at some of the chain-link fencing surrounding the restrooms on the beach. The side of the posts facing the ocean (windward side) are corroded to nothing. The side of the posts away from the ocean (leeward side) still have zinc on them. Very dramatic.
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
ACAR - 29 Feb 2008 12:15 GMT snip
> It was not > uncommon for struts to poke through the strut towers and dent the hoods. > > snip this was common to early-to-mid 1970s Hondas, too. I'm pretty sure the struts were attached directly to the fenders. corrosion weakened the fenders and the struts would pop thru. I remember helping a buddy replace his fenders because his car was not included in a recall. I think we added a piece to help reinforce the structure beneath the engine. flimsy doesn't come close to describing those cars. got good mpg, though.
Grumpy AuContraire - 01 Mar 2008 02:13 GMT > snip > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > engine. flimsy doesn't come close to describing those cars. got good > mpg, though. Actually, the strut towers were pretty rugged. But the engine cross member could rot out. There was a recall for them as well as the fenders.
Later, the Gen 2 Civics (and probably other models) added a plastic wheel well that protected the rear part of the fender that commonly rotted away.
That's why I love old cars here in Central Texas. Old bolts 'n nuts turn just as easy today as when they were put on the car during manufacture.
JT
Grumpy AuContraire - 01 Mar 2008 02:09 GMT >>>Keeping the /body/ alive is the real accomplishment! >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > nothing. The side of the posts away from the ocean (leeward side) still > have zinc on them. Very dramatic. I try to avoid California, too many crazies out there. That's where all the nutty ideas originate.
I have problem enought trying to remain sane here...
<G>
JT
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