Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2008
Replacing brake master cylinder on 1995 Accord
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NetDoe - 19 Apr 2008 00:34 GMT I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). However, what are some "gotchas"? Also any recomms for an effective brake-bleeding kit that won't bleed my wallet?
-Zilla
jim beam - 19 Apr 2008 01:33 GMT > I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems > straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Zilla no gotchas - it's very straightforward. a couple of tips though:
1. fit the cylinder dry, then bleed at the brake pipe junctions on the cylinder before bleeding the rest of the system at the calipers.
2. keep plenty of water handy in case of spillage. never wipe brake fluid off paintwork, the paint will come off with it. simply wash with water, then don't touch, even if you're tempted to. and don't spill water into an open brake reservoir!
as for bleeding kits, don't waste any money on one - use the neighbor kid to help you, if you don't have one of your own. you're bleeding a new cylinder, so make sure you bleed properly - get the pedal pressed all the way to the floor to expel all the air.
NetDoe - 19 Apr 2008 01:56 GMT > > I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems > > straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > new cylinder, so make sure you bleed properly - get the pedal pressed > all the way to the floor to expel all the air. Ok thanks. I plan to drape plastic over the left-front fender, just to protect against spillage. Also the manual mentions bleeding the ABS modulator. Is that necessary?
jim beam - 19 Apr 2008 02:30 GMT >>> I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems >>> straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > against spillage. Also the manual mentions bleeding the ABS modulator. > Is that necessary? theoretically, yes. but reality is, especially if you bleed at the m/c first, you can get away without it. [you didn't pay for this advice, so use it at your own risk!]
NetDoe - 19 Apr 2008 15:28 GMT > >>> I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems > >>> straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > first, you can get away without it. [you didn't pay for this advice, so > use it at your own risk!] So when you say "especially if you bleed at the m/c first" you imply bench-bleeding?
Where is the bleeder valve for the ABS modulator, or is it obvious? My Hanes manual does not show it.
jim beam - 19 Apr 2008 15:33 GMT >>>>> I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems >>>>> straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > So when you say "especially if you bleed at the m/c > first" you imply bench-bleeding? no, do it with the m/c /in/ the car - bleed at the brake line screws. you'll find that once fitted, if you fill the reservoir and simply wait, most of the time, the m/c will bleed itself. once the bubbles stop coming out of the line screws, then get your assistant to press down on the pedal to ensure all air is expelled, then hold while you tighten.
and make sure you use a proper flare nut wrench. using a standard open end wrench is a great way to ruin the hex flats and make life very difficult for yourself.
> Where is the bleeder valve for the ABS modulator, or is it obvious? > My Hanes manual does not show it. you need to take the haynes manual, separate all the pages and roll each one into a crumpled ball, collect into a heap, douse with gasoline, then apply a source of ignition. after you've finished dancing on the ashes, go to helminc.com and buy the proper honda workshop manual. it costs more, but it helps you with questions just like this by actually answering them. the best tool you'll ever buy for that vehicle.
NetDoe - 19 Apr 2008 16:04 GMT > >>>>> I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems > >>>>> straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > end wrench is a great way to ruin the hex flats and make life very > difficult for yourself. I see, that was #1 of your orig response. I planned to use a flare nut wrench.
> > Where is the bleeder valve for the ABS modulator, or is it obvious? > > My Hanes manual does not show it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > more, but it helps you with questions just like this by actually > answering them. the best tool you'll ever buy for that vehicle. ...been ordered, waiting for it in the mail. In the meantime I ask questions and hope for answers.
Elle - 19 Apr 2008 18:07 GMT >> >>>>> I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems >> >>>>> straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > meantime I ask questions > and hope for answers. Just my opinion, and not to throw out the baby with the bathwater (read: Jim Beam's opinion on this with his other occasionally helpful suggestions, when he's feeling like being constructive, like all of us) but i think buying a Helm manual is overrated for your 95 Accord and many 90s Civics. So much information is freely available on the net for Hondas this vintage. E.g. see the bulk of the FS manual for your 95 Accord at http://www.honda.co.uk/car/owner/workshop.html. Also, Autozone has (for free) much info (specific to maintaining and repairing the 95 Accord, and much from the FS manual again) at its site.
Plus, I disagree with a number of people here that Haynes is so awful. From what I have seen, I do prefer Chilton's (fact is it reproduces much verbatim from the FS manual), and I use mine often, but the Haynes will probably be of some help.
Tegger - 19 Apr 2008 02:42 GMT "NetDoe" <netdoe01XSPAM@XSPAMbellsouth.net> wrote in news:TaaOj.55430 $Er2.26247@bignews6.bellsouth.net:
> I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems > straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). > However, what are some "gotchas"? Also any recomms > for an effective brake-bleeding kit that won't bleed my > wallet? You don't need a kit at all, provided you bench bleed first. Do not install the new MC "dry".
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mastercylinderreplace/index.html
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
jim beam - 19 Apr 2008 03:09 GMT > "NetDoe" <netdoe01XSPAM@XSPAMbellsouth.net> wrote in news:TaaOj.55430 > $Er2.26247@bignews6.bellsouth.net: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mastercylinderreplace/index.html but if you install "wet", you can get fluid all over the place - your workbench, not just your car. installing dry, then bleeding at the line connections ensures that all bleeding is controlled, and minimizes air that has to be bled through the rest of the system, particularly relevant for abs.
indeed, i've replaced cylinders like this and not had to do the rest of the system at all. not standard practice of course, but it is possible if the brake lines don't empty, and they won't if the caliper bleeds aren't opened. try it - you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Tegger - 19 Apr 2008 03:17 GMT >> "NetDoe" <netdoe01XSPAM@XSPAMbellsouth.net> wrote in news:TaaOj.55430 >> $Er2.26247@bignews6.bellsouth.net: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > but if you install "wet", you can get fluid all over the place - your > workbench, not just your car. Leaks are no problem.
Stuff a couple of golf tees in the holes as you transport the new MC if you have nothing else to plug them with. Even if the holes are left wide open, drips are slow and very easily compensated for.
And even if you should get some brake fluid on the paint, it's not like when they cut off the leg of that critter in the movie "Alien". Brake fluid takes at least several minutes to damage paint.
 Signature Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
jim beam - 19 Apr 2008 03:24 GMT >>> "NetDoe" <netdoe01XSPAM@XSPAMbellsouth.net> wrote in news:TaaOj.55430 >>> $Er2.26247@bignews6.bellsouth.net: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > when they cut off the leg of that critter in the movie "Alien". Brake fluid > takes at least several minutes to damage paint. installing dry, then bleeding at the line connections is exactly the same as bleeding on the bench as far as the fluid is concerned. only it's much more controlled. and you don't lose [use] as much fluid overall. and there's no worries about any leakage when you're installing.
i've done both, and frankly, bleeding on the bench is a complete waste of time i'll never bother with ever again.
M.A. Stewart - 23 Apr 2008 19:59 GMT > Leaks are no problem. > > Stuff a couple of golf tees in the holes as you transport the new MC if you > have nothing else to plug them with. I made plugs for my self about 25 years ago. I used an old brake tube and an old brake hose from a Datsun(?) or Toyota(?). I cut the fittings off the brake hoses, dug the remaining rubber out of the fittings and then brazed (bronze rod) the hole closed. I now had a female plug to put on the end of a disconnected brake tube, to prevent the fluid from all siphoning out. For a set of _male_ plugs, I cut the brake tube flush with the male nut, and brazed it closed. I snug the plugs down with a pair of wrenches.
These bunch of male nuts and female nuts come in very handy when disconnecting the brake system.
A person could probably do the same thing with a propane torch, some plumbers solder and flux. Steel wool etc. the metal bright and shiny, apply flux and solder. Don't cut the tube flush... leave some sticking out and solder the tube closed.
NetDoe - 24 Apr 2008 01:31 GMT > > Leaks are no problem. > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > tube flush... leave some sticking out and solder the tube > closed. The m/c kit I bought from Autozone came with all sorts of plugs and hoses I needed.
NetDoe - 21 Apr 2008 02:15 GMT > > "NetDoe" <netdoe01XSPAM@XSPAMbellsouth.net> wrote in news:TaaOj.55430 > > $Er2.26247@bignews6.bellsouth.net: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > if the brake lines don't empty, and they won't if the caliper bleeds > aren't opened. try it - you'll be pleasantly surprised. You know, if you think about it, installing dry on the car and then bleeding it with the "bench-bleeding" fittings and hoses that come with the new M/C kit IS bench-bleeding it.
...so that's what I did, and worked like a champ. As Jim says, no mess. I bought a self-bleeding kit but ended up NOT opening/using it since my 10-yr old and wife were glad to help.
Total cost: - M/C = $40 - Dot 3 fluid (2x12oz) = 4 - Bleeder rubber hose = 1
So for <$50 and 4 hrs of getting the parts and actually doing the work, I have a partly new brake system! :) It was my first time to do it.
..and my old back hurts!
motsco_ - 19 Apr 2008 04:58 GMT > I have the Hanes manual, and the procedure seems > straight-forward enough (I'm mechanically inclined). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Zilla -----------------------
Keep some rags in a bucket of warm water to constantly wipe your hands with and lay damp towels around the area so spills get absorbed, rather than running down behind somewhere.
'Curly'
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