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Car Forum / Honda Cars / May 2008Tegger's 'Teg needs a cat...
...because the original has a rust hole in it, which has rendered it noisy. New Honda OEM cats are $1,100, and are discontinued for my car, to boot. I am therefore reduced to trolling the aftermarket, for which I have a healthy distrust. Enquiries at local garages turn up several brands. Good prices all, but no brands which inspire confidence. Being a twenty first-century kinda guy, I start looking online. Only to discover those very same sorry brands and not much else. However, I do discover a listing that, at least visually, looks suspiciously like my own OEM cat, here: <http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?Ntt=hon1623&N=0&uts=true> Check it out. It's a dead-ringer for the OEM cat and lower heat shield. I had a nice online chat with an sales rep from Auto Parts Warehouse, the seller of that cat. A transcript is linked below. It's interesting reading. <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/apw-hon1623-chat-transcript.txt> "John" is me. "Mari" is the APW rep. The upshot is that their photo is /highly/ misleading. Deliberately? You decide.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ check out summitracing.com I've gotten converters there for a fraction of the price charged by the auto parts stores and have had no problem with them running or quality. -SP > ...because the original has a rust hole in it, which has rendered it noisy. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The upshot is that their photo is /highly/ misleading. Deliberately? You > decide. > check out summitracing.com > > I've gotten converters there for a fraction of the price charged by the > auto parts stores and have had no problem with them running or quality. > > -SP ===================== I found Summitracing's eBay ads to be somewhat deceptive / misleading regarding how much they were going to charge for shipping and HANDLING, and they were useless (when I phoned for clarification (regarding shipping to Canada). 'Curly' Looks like you're in for some custom work regardless... JT (Who scoffs at CCs) > ...because the original has a rust hole in it, which has rendered it noisy. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The upshot is that their photo is /highly/ misleading. Deliberately? You > decide. > ...because the original has a rust hole in it, which has > rendered it noisy. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Deliberately? You > decide. Sounds like the rep was saying it was just as likely the second photo she provided you was not quite reflecting what they sold. Considered a junkyard cat converter? I don't see them listed at one of the national U-Pull-It sites. Yet I often see intact muffler systems on junkyard Hondas. IIRC it is illegal for junkyards to sell used Catalytic Converters. At least it is in Canada. Damned emissions legislation. I just straight piped my 90 lumina, but that is an entirely different animal than the teg. Thank god I don't have that car anymore. t > > ...because the original has a rust hole in it, which has > > rendered it noisy. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > - Show quoted text - loewent <loewent@gmail.com> wrote in news:42479bb3-9c33-4de5-9af1- 91fd915106f9@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com: > IIRC it is illegal for junkyards to sell used Catalytic Converters. > At least it is in Canada. It's perfectly legal in Ontario. Don't know about Manitoba. Used cats are about $100 here, but you're on your own as far as quality goes; there is no certification. Ontario's DriveClean program does not care if your cat is new or used, or if it's stuffed with old diapers. All they care about is if the car passes smog when tested. > Damned emissions legislation. Yep. Our premier, Dalton McSneaky, recently took away the 19-year exemption from smog for cars 1988 and newer. I'm now stuck with smog checks in perpetuity. I never voted for that Communist anyway. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ was talking to someone today, he said never throw out your old catalytic converter. Take it to a metal salvage place where they can recover the titanium and rhodium in it. You can get up to $100-200 for it... Maybe thats just some cars... worth looking into though I guess... > loewent <loew...@gmail.com> wrote in news:42479bb3-9c33-4de5-9af1- > 91fd91510...@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > was talking to someone today, he said never throw out your old > catalytic converter. Take it to a metal salvage place where they can > recover the titanium and rhodium in it. Platinum, palladium and rhodium, actually. Platinum and palladium are used for the HC/CO side, rhodium for the NO side. > You can get up to $100-200 > for it... Garages get about $50-100 for them from the places that salvage them. Cat thefts are increasing for this reason. The crooks are stealing them off cars on new-car lots, using cordless Sawzalls. They target truck-based vehicles because there's more ground clearance. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ "Elle" <honda.lioness@spamnocox.net> wrote in news:y80Sj.7477$DG.4904 @newsfe10.phx: > Considered a junkyard cat converter? I don't see them listed > at one of the national U-Pull-It sites. Yet I often see > intact muffler systems on junkyard Hondas. Yeah, I did. What scares me is that most people don't take care of their cars, and poor maintenance does drastic and horrible damage to cats. I'd hate to buy a used cat off a car whose owner ran the same plug wires for ten years, or ran out of gas a few times. I've got lots of time on this. I've got a meeting next week with an exhaust specialist who comes to me highly recommended. Should that come to nothing, I'm going to start looking at used cats. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Yeah, I did. What scares me is that most people don't take care of their > cars, and poor maintenance does drastic and horrible damage to cats. I'd > hate to buy a used cat off a car whose owner ran the same plug wires for > ten years, or ran out of gas a few times. Ok, I'll bite. Why shouldn't I be running ten-year-old plug wires? (full disclosure: they may have been replaced at some point. I would need to check the maintenance records to find out.) Mark in Seattle 1991 Accord "Mark G." <anon40629@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1210259142.556124 @bubbleator.drizzle.com: >> Yeah, I did. What scares me is that most people don't take care of their >> cars, and poor maintenance does drastic and horrible damage to cats. I'd >> hate to buy a used cat off a car whose owner ran the same plug wires for >> ten years, or ran out of gas a few times. > > Ok, I'll bite. Why shouldn't I be running ten-year-old plug wires? Because the insulation breaks down and leaks HT current, leading to weak spark. Weak spark causes excess HCs to reach the cat, overheating it to the point of "sintering". Sintering is where the cotton candy-like surface of the cat's element begins melting and blobbing, greatly reducing its effective surface area, capacity and life. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Here is just why Teger's 'Teg needs a new cat. I finally got around to getting under the car (oil change), removing the heat shields and seeing for myself what exactly was wrong. Well, the dealership lied to me. There was not "a" hole in the catalytic converter, there were SIX of them. Once I removed (what remained of) the heat shields, I was able to see them all. Click here to see those holes: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/catrust/cat-rust-1.jpg http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/catrust/cat-rust-2.jpg The holes are indicated by red arrows. If you look closely, you can see the stainless steel wire mesh Honda's supplier used to cushion the ceramic element inside the cat's body. Looks like this cat rotted from the inside out, and the outside in. But mostly the former. Remember this cat is 17 years old and has seen over 300,000 miles. Interestingly, the front of the cat (reduction side) was quite solid and had no holes at all. Even when vigorously tapped with a ratchet handle the front end of the cat body rang true and solid. The REAR end, of course, is the oxidation side. This side is concerned with making water and carbon dioxide out of the combustion gases. It seems some of that water always stays inside the cat, eventually rotting the oxidation side from the inside out. And that's exactly what happened to mine. I'm going to a muffler shop this morning to see if it's possible to weld up the holes so I can get a few more months out of the cat. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Click here to see those holes: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/catrust/cat-rust-1.jpg > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/catrust/cat-rust-2.jpg Great photos. Whoa, re those holes. I will check my 91 Civic's catalytic converter (204k miles; about half its life driven in northern U.S.) soon. > I'm going to a muffler shop this morning to see if it's > possible to weld up > the holes so I can get a few more months out of the cat. And during this time, are you going to keep shopping around for something more permanent? >>Click here to see those holes: >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/catrust/cat-rust-1.jpg [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And during this time, are you going to keep shopping around > for something more permanent? I just notified the "authorities" regarding his outlaw practices. They should be rounding him up soon... <G> JT "Elle" <honda.lioness@spamnocox.net> wrote in news:tXhXj.37$GV3.11 @newsfe08.phx: >> Click here to see those holes: >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/catrust/cat-rust-1.jpg [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And during this time, are you going to keep shopping around > for something more permanent? Update: Can't be welded. The metal's so thin the muffler shop says they'd just blow holes in it if they tried. The holes are actually fairly small, about 1/8" - 3/16" in diameter. The noise is mostly coming from the slits at the rear, which are about the same overall size. I will be replacing the cat (and front pipe, whose flange is rotted to paper-thinness) next month or so. What's going on is a Walker or other shitty aftermarket. It looks like there's just barely enough room for the fatter aftermarket unit to fit. Until then, I'm wondering if some JB Weld and aluminum tape might not quiet things down until I get around to doing the work. Ordinarily I'd just go ahead and do it, but things have been busy around here so I haven't had a chance. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > "Elle" <honda.lioness@spamnocox.net> wrote in news:tXhXj.37$GV3.11 > @newsfe08.phx: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > ahead and do it, but things have been busy around here so I haven't had a > chance. Assuming that it is function a little still, both the aluminum tape and JB weld would be very short lived. The JB stuff might even catch on fire. There are exhaust patch products out there designed to with reasonalbe heat. Why not just wrap a few beer cans around it? JT > Assuming that it is function a little still, both the aluminum tape > and JB weld would be very short lived. The JB stuff might even catch [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > JT If the unit was round and featureless, beer cans might work. What with all the ribs and flanges actually present, they won't. I'm gonna go for the Walker aftermarket <gag> unit next month. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Theres a big Walker 'W' on my OEM muffler for my 98 civic..... > "Elle" <honda.lion...@spamnocox.net> wrote in news:tXhXj.37$GV3.11 > @newsfe08.phx: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Theres a big Walker 'W' on my OEM muffler for my 98 civic..... And my OEM Honda oil filter is made by FRAM. Doesn't mean much. What a supplier produces on its own and what they make under Honda's close direction are wholly different. The aftermarket Walker is actually physically repulsive in appearance, in addition to to being too fat for the allotted space within the "transmission tunnel" of my Integra. After some extensive searching, it appears pretty much everybody is using the same size 3-way element (maybe even all from the same maker), and just packaging it in their own sheet metal. Unfortunately, the '90-'93 Integra uses a long, slim cat, one that has dimensions quite different from the aftermarket cats available. This means my new cat will either hang quite low, or removal/alteration of the body heat shield will be required. This now explains why the Walker unit I studied has angled pipes and connectors. Evidently Walker is intending the unit hang too low rather than require tampering with the OEM body heat shield. Updates to follow next month... SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Here is just why Teger's 'Teg needs a new cat. > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I'm going to a muffler shop this morning to see if it's possible to weld up > the holes so I can get a few more months out of the cat. 1. You're lucky you didn't burnd down the whole damned town. 2. Them's not holes, tha's cratering! 3. Looks like you will have to find a suitable substitute. Save the front 'n rear sections as some welding/brazing might be necessary to make a generic unit work. But most of all... Howdidya evah pass emmissions? JT >> I'm going to a muffler shop this morning to see if it's possible to >> weld up the holes so I can get a few more months out of the cat. > > 1. You're lucky you didn't burnd down the whole damned town. > > 2. Them's not holes, tha's cratering! It's better than the pics make it look. The noise is a lot less than what your average fart pipe makes, but is loud enough to be annoying to somebody no longer 18 years-old. > 3. Looks like you will have to find a suitable substitute. Save the > front 'n rear sections as some welding/brazing might be necessary to > make a generic unit work. Everything's rotted; can't save any of it. Front pipe ("A" pipe) has to be replaced as well, as the flange is very thin after 17 years of rusting. > But most of all... Howdidya evah pass emmissions? Guess last spring the holes were small enough not to be noticeably loud. Besides, the heat shield would have covered them. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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