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Car Forum / Honda Cars / May 2008Accord Replacement Keys
We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key, and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a security safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my amusement, I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen. To my surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors (manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all that money if the key would still work to steal the car? ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a > result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all > that money if the key would still work to steal the car? The $100 got you a new key with the ignition security code copied over from your remaining factory key, and the service guys added that new key's remote transmitter to your car's remote unlock system. (In a Honda, for remote lock/unlock you program the car's computer to recognize the remote transmitter code; it can keep track of up to 4 remote transmitters that way.) The charges break down like this: * $X for the key itself * $Y to copy your existing key's ignition security code over to the new key * $Z to have your remote unlock system recognize the transmitter code on the new key They did NOT reprogram your car's computer (and keys) with a new ignition security code. That gets to be very expensive. For the record: you can buy an appropriate remote transmitter off of Ebay or keylessride.com and program it to your remote unlock system yourself. But you asked them to do it, so they charged you $Z for that. Back in 2002 when I bought a new Honda van, I wanted a couple more keys made. It was $25 each for the key, cutting it, and copying the ignition security code over. Nowadays it's probably $50, and another $50 for the 10 second dance of mating up the transmitter to the remote unlock system. >> We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a >> result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key, [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >security code over. Nowadays it's probably $50, and another $50 for the >10 second dance of mating up the transmitter to the remote unlock system. They didn't just copy the remote unlock system to the new key. They changed the remote program for both keys. The service advisor told me they had to reprogram all the keys and the car. This is evidenced by the fact that the old (previously lost) key will no longer unlock remotely. Nothing works anymore on the remote buttons. They told me at the time that if I ever found the lost key, I might as well throw it away as it would be useless. Obviously not. Something I haven't figured out yet is why, if they only copied the ignition security and remote codes to the new key, did I get charged for programming 3 keys, which included the valet key without any remote buttons? It may be time to go back and have a talk with my Honda dealer. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > They didn't just copy the remote unlock system to the new key. They > changed the remote program for both keys. We're talking two different things here: 1) the ignition security code (lets you start the car) 2) the remote lock/unlock system They *must* copy the ignition security code from your old key to the new key. If you lose both your keys, then they must perform the costly operation (much more than $100) of putting an all-new ignition security code into the computer AND adding that to your keys. The remote lock/unlock system, however, is far simpler. Each key has a unique transmitter identity; it's a simple 10 second procedure (per key) to match up the key to the lock/unlock receiver system inside the car. You can do that. If you needed a new key, it by definition must match up with the ignition security system. But because your key also contains the remote lock/unlock transmitter, that part of replacing your key also needed to be done. One key, but that key serves two purposes, therefore it needed two things done to fully match it with the car. > The service advisor told me > they had to reprogram all the keys and the car. Not for $100 they didn't. If you went in with one key and came out with two, and both keys started the car and locked/unlocked the doors, and all you paid was $100, they did not "reprogram all the keys and the car". The fact that your lost key continued to start the car is the final proof. They never touched the ignition security code itself, other than copying it from your existing key into the new key. That's standard procedure. Also standard procedure is the 10 second mating of the new remote transmitter to the car. > This is evidenced by > the fact that the old (previously lost) key will no longer unlock > remotely. Not at all. I have four remotes programmed to my van, and sometimes one of those will lose its "mind"--that is, the receiver in the car loses its knowledge of the remote in question. I have to perform the 10 second procedure for that remote again. The procedure doesn't touch the other keys. It's not impossible that they cleared the remote lock/unlock system and started it from scratch, but that would have been another 10 second procedure by itself. The remote lock/unlock system and programming a new key transmitter for it is something you could have Googled the instructions for and done yourself. Probably would have saved you $50. The fact that your lost key still starts the car is proof that they didn't "reprogram all the keys and the car" with regard to the ignition security system. That's very costly to do. > Something I haven't figured out yet is why, if they only copied the > ignition security and remote codes to the new key, did I get charged > for programming 3 keys, which included the valet key without any > remote buttons? That's an excellent question to ask your service manager. Please note: they did not COPY the remote lock/unlock code to the new key. The copying of codes relates ONLY to the ignition security system. The lock/unlock system is separate and operates differently. The system in the car can recognize up to four transmitters, and there's a specific 10 second sequence to go through that requires that the new key be physically present at the car. This process does not alter the code in the transmitter itself; the transmitter already has a unique code in it from the factory. This procedure merely establishes a link between that transmitter and the car's lock/unlock computer. The link is verified by the fact that the key is physically at the car and that the key can physically operate the door lock. Once that dance is completed, the car's computer is convinced that this particular key is supposed to operate this particular car, and the computer remembers that for remote operations. It's only a 10 second dance. Like I said, the $100 paid for $50 of key plus ignition security code transfer, and $50 worth of matching the new transmitter in the new key to the car's remote lock/unlock system. The reason you're here asking all of this is because you don't know how the systems work, and you're looking for people who do know. You've found one--but you're resisting believing that person. You could believe a guy who spent a half hour of his life going over all of this FOR FREE with a COMPLETE STRANGER, or you can believe the dealership service department who just printed out a load of crap for you to get your hundred bucks. The key points (pun intended) to consider are these: 1) you were charged only $100, which does not in any way, shape, or form pay for anything regarding the ignition security code inside the car itself 2) your lost key still starts the car It can't be any plainer to someone like me who knows how this works. You may choose not to believe me; that's your business. > It may be time to go back and have a talk with my > Honda dealer. I'd say so. >> They didn't just copy the remote unlock system to the new key. They >> changed the remote program for both keys. >It's not impossible that they cleared the remote lock/unlock system and >started it from scratch, but that would have been another 10 second >procedure by itself. The remote lock/unlock system and programming a >new key transmitter for it is something you could have Googled the >instructions for and done yourself. Probably would have saved you $50. >The reason you're here asking all of this is because you don't know how >the systems work, and you're looking for people who do know. You've >found one--but you're resisting believing that person. First, I want to thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. I have no problem with your explanation of the ignition code programming. Let's forget about that. My real problem is with the keyless entry system. I have spent a great deal of time searching for information regarding remote control programming for the 2003 Honda Accord EX. So far I have found zip. There are lots of procedures for other Hondas and earlier Hondas, but nothing regarding 7th generation Accords. All of the procedures I have found have the same procedure (the 'dance' as you call it.) So, taking your advice, I attempted to program my remotes using the procedure from these other Hondas. So far, I have tried it 4 times, and there is absolutely no response from the car. I did see in the Honda Security Systems Owner's Manual printed in 2002 that it shows, "Remote Control Code Programming (Only vehicles not equipped with Standard Keyless Entry System." I don't know how to interpret that. I would say that my Accord came equipped with a standard keyless entry system, but it may mean something else. All I know is that the programming instructions in these early manuals does not work in my car. Something else I ran across was something in my 2003 Owner's Manual that states, "If you lose a transmitter, you will need to have the replacement programmed to your car's system by your Honda dealer. Any other transmitters you have will also need to be reprogrammed." This seems to contradict what you told me earlier. What would be most helpful to me now would be to point me to a site that has remote entry progamming instructions for a 7th generation Accord EX. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > My real problem is with the > keyless entry system. Well, I explained how that works. > I have spent a great deal of time searching for information regarding > remote control programming for the 2003 Honda Accord EX. So far I > have found zip. There are lots of procedures for other Hondas and > earlier Hondas, but nothing regarding 7th generation Accords. The dance may be different, but there's still a dance. > Something else I ran across was something in my 2003 Owner's Manual > that states, "If you lose a transmitter, you will need to have the > replacement programmed to your car's system by your Honda dealer. Any > other transmitters you have will also need to be reprogrammed." This > seems to contradict what you told me earlier. The last sentence says that maybe they did it differently with the 03 Accord (but I seriously doubt it). But the rest of it is the same as they've always said. In other words, we're not going to put into any customer documentation how to do this procedure. In a Honda system, you don't "reprogram the transmitters". I think you're seeing sloppy documentation. Worst case, they're talking about clearing the car's computer of all transmitter codes, and doing the dance again for the keys you do have. This would "lock out" the lost key, right? And this is what may have happened in your case. A quick hit on the service computer, and do the dance for the two remaining keys. There's your $50. >The last sentence says that maybe they did it differently with the 03 >Accord (but I seriously doubt it). But the rest of it is the same as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >dance again for the keys you do have. This would "lock out" the lost >key, right? Technically you would be correct in that the transmitters themselves are not reprogrammed, only the car's receiver is learning the codes from the three transmitters. When they say, "programmed transmitters" I'm sure they mean transmitters that have been programmed into the receiver. Now that I have the actual procedure for the 2003 Accord, I can see why all transmitters have to be "reprogrammed." Entering the programming mode cancels all learned transmitter codes, so none of the previously programmed transmitters will work. You must reprogram all of the transmitters once you are in the programming mode. I'm quoting from the Honda Service Bulletin. Also, there is a limit of three transmitters because the transmitter codes are stored in a stacking-type memory. If a fourth transmitter code is programmed, the code for the first transmitter is erased. My last problem was cockpit error. When I followed the programming procedure, when it said to turn on the ignition, I was only turning the key to I and not II. Once I realized what I was doing wrong, all three transmitters were able to submit their code to the receiver. I now have three mated keys. Thanks for pointing out the fact that the codes can be owner programmed. I don't know if the $42 the dealer charged for mating the new key to the ignition was too much or not, but it's water under the bridge now. I'm happy. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >Thanks for pointing out the fact that the codes can be owner >programmed. I don't know if the $42 the dealer charged for mating the >new key to the ignition was too much or not, but it's water under the >bridge now. I'm happy. For some Honda vehicles (like the 2005 Pilot I have), you can program the remote door lock/unlock buttons yourself, but if you want to be able to start the vehicle, you need the Honda equipment to program the car computer to accept the key's chip. I had to get another key for my Pilot because my wife lost hers, and it cost me $150 to get a new key and have the Pilot reprogrammed for it. I checked 3 or 4 dealers in my area, and they all charged the same for doing that. If I remember correctly, the key was $50, the programming was $90, plus tax.  SignatureMike Iglesias Email: iglesias@uci.edu University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926 Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069 >>Thanks for pointing out the fact that the codes can be owner >>programmed. I don't know if the $42 the dealer charged for mating the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >3 or 4 dealers in my area, and they all charged the same for doing that. >If I remember correctly, the key was $50, the programming was $90, plus tax. In my case, the dealer charged me $57.62 for the new key, and $42 labor to match it to the car (plus tax.) Then she found the key. :-) ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >In my case, the dealer charged me $57.62 for the new key, and $42 >labor to match it to the car (plus tax.) Then she found the key. :-) Well of course she found it after you got the new key! My wife hasn't found hers though... SignatureMike Iglesias Email: iglesias@uci.edu University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926 Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069 >> We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a >> result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > recognize the remote transmitter code; it can keep track of up to 4 > remote transmitters that way.) According to the Service Bulletin 98-011, February 20 2004, Page 9: http://driveaccord.net/PDF/remote%20reprogram%2098-011.pdf "The system accepts up to *three* transmitters. The transmitter codes are stored in a stacking-type memory. If a fourth transmitter code is programmed, the code for the first transmitter is erased." > The charges break down like this: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > They did NOT reprogram your car's computer (and keys) with a new > ignition security code. That gets to be very expensive. Are you 100% sure the original honda keys have "writable" chip for the ignition security system? I am not sure, but I have read somewhere, that the rf-id chips in honda keys are "read-only" type, so you need to teach the car to recognize new key... Only aftermarket, non-honda keys have this chip writable for the purpose of the store/locksmith being able to copy chip without messing with the car. > For the record: you can buy an appropriate remote transmitter off of > Ebay or keylessride.com and program it to your remote unlock system > yourself. But you asked them to do it, so they charged you $Z for that. I went to keylessride.com and looked up 2004 accord key+remote for my car. They have "combo" key for about $42 but they send you to the dealer for cutting the key AND FOR TRANSPONDER CHIP PROGRAMMING, which apparently you cannot do yourself... They will send you programming instructions for the remote unlock transmitter (probably an text taken from the bulletin above) but with the ignition transponder (also called rf-id chip or immobiliser tag) ou are out of luck and on the mercy of your dealer... > Back in 2002 when I bought a new Honda van, I wanted a couple more keys > made. It was $25 each for the key, cutting it, and copying the ignition > security code over. Nowadays it's probably $50, and another $50 for the > 10 second dance of mating up the transmitter to the remote unlock system. So at keylessride.com you pay $42 for the blank key $6 for shipping and after paying $50 to the dealer for cutting this blank and putting the new immobilizer tag into your car memory you are parted with your $100. Where is the deal here? Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in news:n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@ 4ax.com: > We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a > result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all > that money if the key would still work to steal the car? The dealer is supposed to clear the immobilizer memory of the transponder codes for the lost key. This is done through the same PGM Tester menu used to add new keys. The mechanic that did the work just forgot to do that. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in news:n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@ >4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >codes for the lost key. This is done through the same PGM Tester menu used >to add new keys. The mechanic that did the work just forgot to do that. Thanks Tegger. That clears up one mystery. Can you point me to the remote key entry system programming instructions for a 2003 Accord EX? I have tried the procedure for earlier Hondas without success. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in >>news:n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@ 4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > remote key entry system programming instructions for a 2003 Accord EX? > I have tried the procedure for earlier Hondas without success. Try this: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/98-011.pdf Your car is covered on page 9. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in >>>news:n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@ 4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Your car is covered on page 9. Thanks very much. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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