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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2007Master cylinder float question
Hi: My 2003 Accord brake dash light came on and stayed on yesterday morning. The main and hand brakes work fine. All tail and rear window bulbs OK. Fluid level is topped off nicely. I pulled the low fluid level connector off of the master cylinder and the light went out. My next thing to do is try and get the strainer out of the master cylinder and stick my finder down there and see if I can feel and move the float. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Wayne > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wayne what is the question? >> Hi: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > what is the question? My question is, has anyone else run into this problem. Is there a way to get the white semi-translucent reservoir off without damaging it, or, if it is the float or float switch, so I need to replace the whole master cylinder? >>> Hi: >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the float or float switch, so I need to replace the whole master > cylinder? You remove the strainer (by hand) and replace it with a new one, just like the TSB says. The TSB was not written just for fun, you know.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>> Hi: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > You remove the strainer (by hand) and replace it with a new one, just like > the TSB says. The TSB was not written just for fun, you know. You da man, da Honda Einstein, Tegger. It's just that the bulletin was for up to 02 Accords and my 03 looks different, so I wasn't sure. Besides, it's been raining for 3 days and I was working and wasn't going to fiddle with the problem until Saturday. Your master cylinder article was very informative and interesting. I haven't had one of them apart since the single circuit days, for a rebuild. Can one still buy rebuild kits? I used to do my 70 Vega and 80 Chrysler wheel cylinder rebuilds every time I put on new pads, because if I didn't, 75% of the time they would stick and overheat. So far, the 03 Honda has not. BTW, what do the porportioning valves do? Seems like the the laws of physics say the pressure would be equal at both brake cylinders without any valves. Also, the left front / right rear split seems really squirrelly. Both back on one circuit and both front on the other seems normal, safer, and not needing proportioning valves. Also, since I've never bled my brakes in the 03, or any other car I've ever owned, except when I lose a lot of fluid from removing a wheel cylinder to rebuild it...........how should I flush them.......a little at a time with a hand vacuum pump and reservior, which I can do myself........or by pushing the pedal all the way down, which "cleans" the master cylinder better but requires two people. Will I know I got everything when the fluid coming out of the wheel cylinders looker cleaner, or is replacing a little now and then good enough. I noticed a couple of weeks ago, when I added an ounce or two of brake fluid for the first time ever to the 2003 Accord, that the new (unused, but probably 10 years old or more) brake fluid looked a little cloudy, making me think I should dump it and get a new bottle. Hope that didn't cause the float switch problem but I don't see how it could have. I guess that container of old brake fluid absorded water just sitting in the basement for years, even with the cap on. Wayne > It's just that the bulletin > was for up to 02 Accords and my 03 looks different, so I wasn't sure. It might not be applicable, but it's a logical, cheap (and simple) first attempt. > Besides, it's been raining for 3 days and I was working and wasn't > going to fiddle with the problem until Saturday. Your master cylinder > article was very informative and interesting. I haven't had one of > them apart since the single circuit days, for a rebuild. Can one > still buy rebuild kits? Not from the dealer for my car, but maybe for others. I could have bought a rebuild kit from the aftermarket, but there was only ten bucks difference between the kit and a finished assembly, so I bought the finished assembly. > I used to do my 70 Vega and 80 Chrysler wheel > cylinder rebuilds every time I put on new pads, because if I didn't, > 75% of the time they would stick and overheat. So far, the 03 Honda > has not. BTW, what do the porportioning valves do? Seems like the the > laws of physics say the pressure would be equal at both brake > cylinders without any valves. The proportioning valve splits the the brake fluid lines into front and rear zones. This is independent of the master cylinder's dual-diagonal split. The proportioning valve consists of two chambers. One chamber serves the front wheels, and one chamber the rears. Each chamber has an inlet for the feed from the master cylinder, and one outlet for each of the two wheels served by that chamber. The outlets for the front wheel lines are of a certain diameter. The outlets for the rears are choked down by an insert that makes the diameter smaller than the outlets for the fronts. A lower fluid volume thus flows to the rear brakes. In this manner the front brakes are permitted to bite harder than the rears, preventing rear wheel lockup prior to front lockup. Also, the left front / right rear split > seems really squirrelly. Both back on one circuit and both front on > the other seems normal, safer, and not needing proportioning valves. Toyota does a front/rear split, but still uses a proportioning valve to ensure the rears don't lock up before the fronts. If your pistons are all moving freely in their bores, and the fluid is fresh, you'll never be able to tell what system of split is used. If you have uneven braking, you have a problem at the wheels (sticky piston). It has nothing to do with the diagonal split. > Also, since I've never bled my brakes in the 03, or any other car I've > ever owned, except when I lose a lot of fluid from removing a wheel > cylinder to rebuild it...........how should I flush them.......a > little at a time with a hand vacuum pump A Mity-Vac is fine. It helps to wrap some Teflon tape around the bleed screw threads so you don't suck air into the vinyl tubing. That air will mislead you into thinking you've got air in the brake lines. SpeedBleeders are better. www.speedbleeder.com > and reservior, which I can do > myself........or by pushing the pedal all the way down, which "cleans" > the master cylinder better but requires two people. This is my method. Luckily I have my wife to help me with that task. > Will I know I got > everything when the fluid coming out of the wheel cylinders looker > cleaner, or is replacing a little now and then good enough. You should replace ALL the fluid every two years. That's how you keep your wheel cylinders in good shape nearly forever. You can tell you've flushed it sufficiently because the fluid will be clean and clear, a very pale straw color > I noticed a couple of weeks ago, when I added an ounce or two of brake > fluid for the first time ever to the 2003 Accord, that the new [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > could have. I guess that container of old brake fluid absorded water > just sitting in the basement for years, even with the cap on. Yes it did. Always use freshly bought fluid. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > If you have uneven braking, you have a problem at the wheels (sticky > piston). Or glaze, or pads seized, or caliper not sliding freely on pins... SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Is there a way to > get the white semi-translucent reservoir off without damaging it, or, if it > is > the float or float switch, so I need to replace the whole master cylinder? ------------------------------ The diagrams at www.slhondaparts.com might be of some help. 'Curly' > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wayne Hi, ABS is little different. Unless you know what you are doing, at least look up the shop manual or ask a pro. >Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wayne Isn't the float attached to the cap? >> Hi: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Isn't the float attached to the cap? Yeah, good point, too - check the PDF link JRL provided, the float should be attached to the cap. If it's not there, well, there's your problem... also, it's a FLOAT - if it did come loose, it should still float to the top when you pull the cap off. You shouldn't need to go digging after it. >>> Hi: >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > also, it's a FLOAT - if it did come loose, it should still float to the > top when you pull the cap off. You shouldn't need to go digging after it. They stopped doing that in 2002. The 2003 Accords have the float down inside somwhere, from what I can gather. The only thing visible is the strainer basket subassembly, and I don't know yet if it is pressed in or not. The connector is down low on the left side, towards the back of the mater cylinder, when viewing it standing in front of the car. My question is, has anyone else run into this problem. Is there a wat to get the whitesemi-translucent resevour off without damaging it, or, if it is the float or float switch, so I need to replce the whole master cylinder? >Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wayne http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/tsb/accord/x03-078e.pdf I think this will help > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > there and see if I can feel and move the float. Any suggestions would be > appreciated. In addition to what everyone else has said, I'd recommend NOT sticking your finger in the reservoir - your brake fluid is the one thing you want to be REALLY careful not to contaminate. (In reality, it probably won't do any harm, but better safe than sorry...) > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wayne The same problem presented itself with my Prelude around 60k miles. It was the float. But I should imagine the system in the Accord may be a little different. |
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