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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2008Questions about new Accord
I've just bought an 09 Accord. A couple of little questions please... Never had a honda before. This Memory Minder that tells us when things need to be done, etc.... I've read the manual well, but one thing that isn't clear to me. Let's say I do my first oil change at 5k miles, and reset the Minder's oil indicator back to 100%. This of course should not effect the Minder's tracking of the other things that won't need to be done till later, right? I know this may seem dumb, but they don't cover this at all in the manual. Let's say, on down the road, say at 20k miles or so, I get the little symbol that I need to change the air filter. After I change that, and reset the air filter tracking, I wouldn't want to also reset the oil change tracking without changing the oil, etc., etc. I assume that with one or more symbols lit on the cluster, I would be able to toggle to reset each one as I do the maintenance. Is this the way it works? Also, I seem to have a minor steering wheel shimmy at around 60-65 mph. The car has new Michelins and the car only had 6 miles on it when I bought it. I wonder if those little air pressure sensors could present a wee bit of a problem for wheel balancing. Also, about these sensors in the tires, when the time comes for buying new tires, I assume they will just remove the things and put them in the new tires. Correct? Do some people just do away with these things after a while. I frankly don't need them myself as I always keep tabs on things like proper air pressure in my tires. We do like the car though, and hope to drive it a LONG time. Thanks for any good feedback. In article <c6a0bf7d-26f1-4dc5-a57b-4b2b751ac6fb@1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > Never had a honda before. This Memory Minder that tells us when > things need to be done, etc.... I've read the manual well, but one [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > should not effect the Minder's tracking of the other things that won't > need to be done till later, right? The MM is tracking everything, no? Are you saying you are resetting the OIL LIFE ONLY? Is that an option? Or are you just resetting the MM? The MM tracks everything. On Oct 14, 10:14 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote: > In article > <c6a0bf7d-26f1-4dc5-a57b-4b2b751ac...@1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > The MM tracks everything. Okay, I'll try again. At present, the car has only about 700 miles on it. I can toggle from Oil Life to "Trip A" and "Trip B" which are odometers. The manual tells me how to reset the MM when the oil is changed, by holding down the button for 15 seconds or so. What happens later when other things need to be done that I get messages (symbols) for---change air filter, plugs, transmission fluid, etc.? I assume I will be able to toggle to reset those when that service is done, without of course affecting the Oil Life tracking. In article <3760a18a-333a-4856-b3b7-e11477bf9a8f@u27g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, > The manual > tells me how to reset the MM when the oil is changed, by holding down [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > when that service is done, without of course affecting the Oil Life > tracking. No. the MM tracks everything. Reset the MM, reset everything. On Oct 15, 5:46 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote: > In article > <3760a18a-333a-4856-b3b7-e11477bf9...@u27g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Reset the MM, reset everything. So, you're telling me that when I change only the oil and reset the MM, that all the other maintenance item are also reset, even with the other items not being replaced/serviced? Do you think about what you write? Do you even think? >On Oct 15, 5:46 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >not being replaced/serviced? Do you think about what you write? Do >you even think? No. You'll get a notice that says you need, for istance (looking at my 08 Fit this morning) A1 service. Looking in the book, this is oil and rotate. Both of those can and will be done at home this weekend. But eventually other items will need to be done and these will pop up on their own, at their own schedule. But if you replace the air filter when its service interval comes along and don't do the oil, which should also be done at the same time, the oil interval will be reset. Perhaps you should read the manual. It's all called out in nice detail. >>On Oct 15, 5:46 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> >>wrote: [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Perhaps you should read the manual. It's all called out in nice > detail. Nothing is going to pop up on its own independent of an oil change. The Maintenance Minder system is oil change interval driven based on "accumulated engine revolutions and operating conditions." Everything else is done in conjunction with oil changes. You will not see a 1 thru 5 without an A or B. Personal adjustment might be necessary for some things other than oil. I follow the MM for my oil changes, but I always change the oil filter with it. Following the MM, my oil changes are every 7000 to 8000 miles so far, but I like to rotate my tires every 5,000 miles. I just changed my engine air filter with my 15,200 mile oil change because it was dirty now, but I probably won't see a 2 code until the next oil change. I follow the A or B codes strictly, but I consider the 1 thru 5 numeric codes as bare minimums if it has not been done already. Remember that the computer really only "thinks" about oil life. > Perhaps you should read the manual. It's all called out in nice > detail. But didn't you read? He's a self taught EXPERT on such things. Why, he knows more in his little finger than all the Honda engineers put together. HE knows better. >> Perhaps you should read the manual. It's all called out in nice >> detail. > > But didn't you read? He's a self taught EXPERT on such things. Why, he > knows more in his little finger than all the Honda engineers put > together. HE knows better. yeah, i loved that comment too. an "expert" that would change his synthetic oil after only 8.5k. apparently this "expert" doesn't use oil analysis. >Okay, I'll try again. At present, the car has only about 700 miles >on it. I can [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >when that service is done, without of course affecting the Oil Life >tracking. Here is what happens with my 2006 Honda. Every now and then, the Maintenance Minder comes on and tells me what needs to be done. The oil change interval is averaging about 7000 miles or so. Other reminders come on at the same time as the oil change reminder, using codes. I look these codes up in the manual and I do those things too (cabin filter, air cleaner filter, etc.). When I reset the MM, everything goes away. The reminder intervals are based on driving habits and conditions. If you ever get a reminder to change the oil and nothing else, then I suspect you can reset just that reminder. But what ever shows up is all cleared by the same procedure as you describe: "holding down the button for 15 seconds" Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher Here's an idea, let the maintenance minder do its job, it will tell you based on several things which are monitored when service needs to be done. Changing your oil at 5,000 miles is wasteful of both your money and a natural resource. Depending on your driving conditions you may need to change at 5k, maybe 10k but, maybe not, why waste? let go, let Honda :-). > I've just bought an 09 Accord. A couple of little questions please... > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > in my tires. We do like the car though, and hope to drive > it a LONG time. Thanks for any good feedback. > Here's an idea, let the maintenance minder do its job, it will tell you > based on several things which are monitored when service needs to be done. Uh yes, I know. My question is about resetting after various service is done. > Changing your oil at 5,000 miles is wasteful of both your money and a > natural resource. Depending on your driving conditions you may need to > change at 5k, maybe 10k but, maybe not, why waste? let go, let Honda :-). I am actually quite an expert on the subject of oil changes, but I digress. I am a former BMW owner and always did my own service, but this Honda MM is new to me. This 5k oil change is for the car's first off-the-assembly-line oil change. The dealership thinks they are going to get to do the service work on the car and already has me scheduled for this initial 5k oil change--which is not a bad idea for any new car with factory oil in a brand new engine. But the popular myth of oil changes every 3k miles being a swell idea....it is overkill, and wasteful. 5-8k mile oil changes are the best window to shoot for for most drivers. I'm not a big fan of going more than about 8500 miles on the same oil, synthetic or conventional. > <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. Oil changes at pre set intervals are no longer the rule....They do however turn a nice profit for the dealership if you insist....but as impressed as I am you owned a BMW (not) which....well makes you an expert because? I however do not claim to be an expert, so, do as you wish it is after all your money, it is however our planet and with any luck you will use a dealership that properly recycles (under)used oil. >> Here's an idea, let the maintenance minder do its job, it will tell you >> based on several things which are monitored when service needs to be [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - > Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs > changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. Oil changes at > pre set intervals are no longer the rule....They do however turn a nice > profit for the dealership if you insist....but as impressed as I am you > owned a BMW (not) which....well makes you an expert because? During the years I owned those cars, I did a great deal of "research" on the very common subject of argument with "car people": oil changes.. best types/brands and frequency of change. As I've said, changing out factory oil in a new engine is not a bad idea at 5k miles. I also don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the event of future warranty work, which they are known for. > I however do not claim to be an expert, so, do as you wish it is after all > your money, it is however our planet and with any luck you will use a > dealership that properly recycles (under)used oil. I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for at least higher I.Q's. > <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the > event of future warranty work, which they are known for. So how are you going to prove that you have changed the oil? Traditional way was to show a copy of the invoice from the shop... In case of DIY, how do you do it? I change my oil or ATF and properly recycle it bringing used oil to local PepBoys shop but I wonder what troubles I am facing in case I will have contested warranty claim and warrantor wants to see all the proof of maintenance done on this car... Yes, I have purchased maintenance fluids, filters and kept the receipts, but from the legal point of view they proof only the fact I purchased these items. Statement can be made that I have actually never gone about doing these things and oil filter is still sitting on my garrage shelf :-) > I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me > that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. > Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for > at least higher I.Q's. I have 2004 without this feature and probably there is not many other group members with 2009 AND knowing how it works... I fully understant your question and I am also quite surprised with Elmo's answer :-) I alsodo not know how really does it work, we can only guess. As a computer engineer I can infer that if the whole "user interface" consists of holding the single button to reset the indicator IT MUST be done the way you reset each thing separatelly. Each managed item like the oil life, air filter, ATF would have its own maintenance period requirement and clearing the warning would affect only this particular item. As you probably agree it would be silly if changing the engine oil every 5-8k miles and reseting the minder would also clear the "timer" for the ATF or air filter. In case you do some service which is not reported yet, so lets say you replace air filter before the air filter icon pops up on the screen, you as a user will not have the proper "user interface" to clear the minder. I am guessing clearing such thing before the indicator is there on the screen can be done only accessing the computer through the OBD-II connector if possible at all. There is also another thing to think about... The state of the oil is not directly measured with any sensor - it is "calculated" using some routine based on the car usage... The same is probably done for ATF or air filter. > <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Traditional way was to show a copy of the invoice from the shop... > In case of DIY, how do you do it? I plan to buy the oil filters from the dealership (while under warranty), and of course keep the receipts for the oil, which also of course will be the recommended weight and quality--I plan to use Castrol 5w-20 dino. I will also write all the particulars down in my little servcie book that came with the car, including the Oil Life reading when the oil was changed. > I change my oil or ATF and properly recycle it bringing used oil > to local PepBoys shop but I wonder what troubles I am facing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that I have actually never gone about doing these things and > oil filter is still sitting on my garrage shelf :-) I guess that's true, strictly speaking, but with all of the documentation you have, I think it would be a stretch for Honda to wiggle out of warranty work. It just wouldn't make any sense that detailed oriented owner like you would buy these items and not use them on his late model car. They could also look at the various installed components, including the condition of your motor oil in the engine. > > I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me > > that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > oil every 5-8k miles and reseting the minder would also clear > the "timer" for the ATF or air filter. Yep, you're right. The manual doesn't address this. They make it sound like the whole system is reset when the oil is changed. Does your '04 just have a Minder for oil changes and not the other stuff? > In case you do some service which is not reported yet, so > lets say you replace air filter before the air filter icon pops up [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > is not directly measured with any sensor - it is "calculated" > using some routine based on the car usage... Yep, this is the way it was with BMW. When I first bought a car with this, I was, like you, thinking sensor. But it is simply based on a little formula that has as variables RPM, mileage, engine temp, etc. I could give you the actual formula BMW uses if you're interested. I always felt it was a bit inaccurate and pretentious since, in my view, if left out the most important thing: engine run time. Thanks for the intelligent response! >The same is > probably done for ATF or air filter. >> don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the >> event of future warranty work, which they are known for. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >that I have actually never gone about doing these things and >oil filter is still sitting on my garrage shelf :-) Actually, by Federal law, they have to show that you voided the warranty by not performing the maintenance. You don't have to prove that you did the work. >> I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me >> that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >oil every 5-8k miles and reseting the minder would also clear >the "timer" for the ATF or air filter. You don't get a reminder for oil, and another one for air filter, and another one for ATF, etc. You get a reminder with a set of items to perform. >In case you do some service which is not reported yet, so >lets say you replace air filter before the air filter icon pops up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >only accessing the computer through the OBD-II connector >if possible at all. Probably. >There is also another thing to think about... The state of the oil >is not directly measured with any sensor - it is "calculated" >using some routine based on the car usage... The same is >probably done for ATF or air filter. Yes. They say it's based on current and historic usage. I bought my 08 Fit on March 27th with 11 miles on it (when I did the test drive, I put 9 miles on it). Today the MM is showing 10%, A1 service and 5535 miles. Nasty city/highway mix. >>> don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the >>> event of future warranty work, which they are known for. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > warranty by not performing the maintenance. You don't have > to prove that you did the work. And they show this by me cannot show invoce/recept for the job. Custommer cannot show the invoice = > he did not do the maintenance. In the warranty contract they make you responsible for doing maintenance and keeping all the invoices - you signed the contract. >>There is also another thing to think about... The state of the oil >>is not directly measured with any sensor - it is "calculated" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > put 9 miles on it). Today the MM is showing 10%, A1 service and > 5535 miles. Nasty city/highway mix. How do you supposed to interprete the %%? Does it mean only 10% is left or 10% is used and 90% left? >>>> don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the >>>> event of future warranty work, which they are known for. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > How do you supposed to interprete the %%? > Does it mean only 10% is left or 10% is used and 90% left? It starts at 100% and descends. >> How do you supposed to interprete the %%? >> Does it mean only 10% is left or 10% is used and 90% left? > > It starts at 100% and descends. tnx. On Oct 15, 2:38 am, "Justbob30" <justbo...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs > changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. Oil changes at > pre set intervals are no longer the rule....They do however turn a nice > profit for the dealership if you insist....but as impressed as I am you > owned a BMW (not) which....well makes you an expert because? During the years I owned those cars, I did a great deal of "research" on the very common subject of argument with "car people": oil changes.. best types/brands and frequency of change. As I've said, changing out factory oil in a new engine is not a bad idea at 5k miles. I also don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the event of future warranty work, which they are known for. > I however do not claim to be an expert, so, do as you wish it is after all > your money, it is however our planet and with any luck you will use a > dealership that properly recycles (under)used oil. I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for at least higher I.Q's. ============================================= I have an '07 Accord and an '08 Fit. On both cars the MM coordinates the other maintenance items in conjunction with oil changes. Yes, resetting the MM resets everything, but nothing shows up independently of the oil changes, so that is OK. Just a hint. You will get more information if you don't come across as such an a.shole. . > Just a hint. > You will get more information if you don't come across as such an a.shole. I can understant his frustration after reading Elmo's response... Response indicating not understanding the question after 2nd attempt. Looking at the message writing times I can only say Elmo did not have enough time for sleep and recharge his brain batteries... ;-) >> Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs >> changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. Oil changes at [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the >event of future warranty work, which they are known for. Ummm, Honda says NO. Change when called for. Back in "the good old days" (when I drove a Ford with a Boss 351) changing the oil at 1000 miles post purchase was standard. But there aren't any "break in oils" anymore. What kind of oil do you plan to use? For years, I used GTX 20W-50 due to the environment I was driving my Hondas in. Then a Honda mechanic told me that they recommended 5W-30 and it turned out to be cheaper. >> I however do not claim to be an expert, so, do as you wish it is after all >> your money, it is however our planet and with any luck you will use a [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - On Oct 15, 2:38 am, "Justbob30" <justbo...@hotmail.com> wrote: I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for at least higher I.Q's. ------------ I fully understand what you are asking, it is a pretty straight forward question. Does resetting the maintanance reminder at an oil change interval reset the reminder of those items scheduled further out then said oil change? Unfortunately, I don't have the answer! > <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Unfortunately, I don't have the answer! I think it's pretty clear to me now that this silly MM is just an oil change interval-based thingy that also keeps track of the overall mileage on the car (or maybe even the number of times the thing has been reset, to deal with the other items than need changing later--such as plugs and filters). For a person who does not wish to wait for the Oil Life to get down to 15% on the MM before changing his oil, he will never see reminders for changing out the other items, rotating tires, etc. Let us say there are flaws in the system. >> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > tires, etc. > Let us say there are flaws in the system. Actually the MM on my 2007 accord not only tracks oil life (pretty much 7.5K/change) but also indicates other services by code (A1, B2, etc.) which are defined in the OM (Owner's Manual). > <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Actually the MM on my 2007 accord not only tracks oil life (pretty much > 7.5K/change) but also indicates other services by code (A1, B2, etc.) But these messages only show up when the MM says "Oil Life" at 15%-- or lower-- on your car, right? They never show up independently w/o the MM saying it's time for an oil change. >> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >w/o >the MM saying it's time for an oil change. Yes, because, if you do it according to Honda's recommendations, the service intervals for the other items fall in line with the recommended change times for oil. If you short shift on an oil change, eventually you'll get a reminder to change your air filter. But it will be part of a "package", that will include an oil change From the 2008 Fit: A: Replace engine oil B: Replace engine oil Inspect front and rear brake wear Check parking brake adjustment Inspect the following items: - Fluid levels and conditions - Brake hoses and lines - Driveshaft boots - Exhaust system - Fuel lines and connections - Suspension components - Tie rod ends, steering gear box and boots 1: Rotate tires 2: Replace air cleaner element. Replace dust and pollen filter. Inspect drive belt. 3: Replace transmission fluid 4: Replace spark plugs. Inspect vavle clearance. 5: Replace engine coolant Also: Replace brake fluid every 3 years, inspect idle speed every 160K miles > >> Actually the MM on my 2007 accord not only tracks oil life (pretty much > >> 7.5K/change) but also indicates other services by code (A1, B2, etc.) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > service intervals for the other items fall in line with the > recommended change times for oil. From previous post of mine, which addresses this--read slowly: "I think it's pretty clear to me now that this silly MM is just an oil change interval-based thingy that also keeps track of the overall mileage on the car (or maybe even the number of times the thing has been reset, to deal with the other items than need changing later--such as plugs and filters). " Assumes of course the owners waits till 15% on subsequent oil changes... > If you short shift on an oil change, eventually you'll get a reminder > to change your air filter. But it will be part of a "package", that > will include an oil change Read the following that I wrote above, very carefully: "For a person who does not wish to wait for the Oil Life to get down to 15% on the MM before changing his oil, he will never see reminders for changing out the other items, rotating tires, etc. Let us say there are flaws in the system. " IOW, a customer/car owner who, say, drops in at the Jiffy Lube "every 3 thousand miles or three months" will never see any of these service messages. My own Honda dealership actually has me scheduled for the first oil change at 4800 miles, which they have determined to be on January 19, '09. Then there is also the case of the owner who doesn't put enough miles on his car in a year to get down to 15% and the messages... The manual tells them to do an oil change at least once a year even if very low miles, like most automakers. This person will also never get the other service item messages. > From the 2008 Fit: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >>>> Actually the MM on my 2007 accord not only tracks oil life (pretty much >>>> 7.5K/change) but also indicates other services by code (A1, B2, etc.) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Assumes of course the owners waits till 15% on subsequent > oil changes... <snip crap> let's go back to where all this b.s. started. you said: "I am actually quite an expert on the subject of oil changes". apparently that's not true since you don't seem to know /why/ oil needs to get changed - and no, it's not the color - or seem to bother with oil analysis. basically dude, if you don't know stuff, that's fine, but don't try to bullshit your way out of the corner you've painted yourself into. and /definitely/ don't try to bullshit people that /do/ know more than you. if you bothered to pay attention, maybe you'd even learn something. >> >> Actually the MM on my 2007 accord not only tracks oil life (pretty much >> >> 7.5K/change) but also indicates other services by code (A1, B2, etc.) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > of times the thing has been reset, to deal with the other > items than need changing later--such as plugs and filters). " THEN YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS. It's "pretty clear" to you because you don't understand it and make things up on the fly. >Assumes of course the owners waits till 15% on subsequent >oil changes... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >even if very low miles, like most automakers. This person will >also never get the other service item messages. Um, see above. You have no knowledge or expertise (otherwise, why would you be asking the question in the first place), yet you are able to come to conclusions based on your own opinion and conjecture. >> From the 2008 Fit: >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - > Thus spake rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com : > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > It's "pretty clear" to you because you don't understand it and make > things up on the fly. Another genius amuses me with his dendrite shortage. Explain if you can what about "none of the other maintenance items show up until the Oil Life reading reaches 15%" can you not comprehend? > >Assumes of course the owners waits till 15% on subsequent > >oil changes... [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > would you be asking the question in the first place), yet you are able > to come to conclusions based on your own opinion and conjecture. I asked the question about this silly Honda MM 5 days ago. Since then I have learned quite clearly how it works. How many years will it take for you to figure it out? Ever heard "tis better to be silent and thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt"? >> Thus spake rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com : >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Another genius amuses me with his dendrite shortage. to a materials person, you know, what cars are made of, dendrites are these things: http://math.nist.gov/mcsd/savg/vis/dendrite/index.html life would be much more pleasant if you dropped the preoccupation with personal issues and concentrated on car stuff. > Explain > if you can what about "none of the other maintenance items show > up until the Oil Life reading reaches 15%" can you not comprehend? why don't you explain your simple oil usage algorithm when a modern vehicle can track every cold start, every warmup cycle, every minute of idle, every minute [blah...] ? >>> Assumes of course the owners waits till 15% on subsequent >>> oil changes... [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > will it take for you to figure it out? Ever heard "tis better to be > silent and thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt"? eh? you came here demanding free expert advice, against which you fought, you complained, you insulted, and then you flung your teddy in a corner announcing your departure, yet here you still are and now you're lecturing others on the benefits of silence??? buddy, you need to take your own advice if you don't understand why you're getting a negative reaction. coughing up your secret data on your oil analysis would help too. >> Thus spake rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com : >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >if you can what about "none of the other maintenance items show >up until the Oil Life reading reaches 15%" can you not comprehend? Cites? > Thus spake rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com : > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Cites? Well, you could start by reading your Owner's Manual. >> Thus spake rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com : >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Well, you could start by reading your Owner's Manual. eh? weren't you the guy having difficulties cracking open your own owners manual??? In article <43032a22-7e4d-4d32-b2bd-aab840011edf@64g2000hsu.googlegroups.com>, > I think it's pretty clear to me now that this silly MM is just > an oil change interval-based thingy that also keeps track > of the overall mileage on the car (or maybe even the number > of times the thing has been reset, to deal with the other > items than need changing later--such as plugs and filters). I bet it's also pretty clear to you that the Earth was formed 4000 years ago, and that women should remain barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. What's clear to you plainly has no relation to reality. You don't know how the MM works, so you made some wild-a.s guesses--and then decided those must the truth. You're so wrong, it's funny to watch you drool this stuff. >> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > tires, etc. > Let us say there are flaws in the system. With the technology that is available today, it would be relatively easy to design a truly automated system. >>> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > With the technology that is available today, it would be relatively easy to > design a truly automated system. not only is it easy, you'd be damned foolish /not/ to use such a system given the computing power the vehicle has. >>>> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > not only is it easy, you'd be damned foolish /not/ to use such a > system given the computing power the vehicle has. I'd like to see it integrated into the touch screen for vehicles with the navi system. >>>>> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > I'd like to see it integrated into the touch screen for vehicles with > the navi system. i'm sure it'll happen, but the problem is that the navigation system is a specialist package, just like the engine management system is a specialist package. the guys that design one, don't design the other. to integrate them means having them both hosted by yet another system. then you're looking at a car whose software takes 4 minutes to boot before the engine runs and... well, it won't be that bad, but "modular" and "stand alone" make a lot of sense. >>>>>> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > minutes to boot before the engine runs and... well, it won't be > that bad, but "modular" and "stand alone" make a lot of sense. My '04 Navi takes about 30 seconds to load and be useful, which also includes all of the controls for a lot of other functions (though there are push button controls available as well, but they're no fun to use!). In a not too distant future, touchscreen controls will be common place for even low end models as they become less expensive and easier to program and wire to PLC type controls (I frequently use them for equipment designs, and small touch screens can be had quite cheaply these days, as well as PLC controls). All that is needed to interface the two is a network cable. > I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me > that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. > Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for > at least higher I.Q's. I don't see what the big deal is about the maintenance minder. Keep track of the distance and time since you did the last bit of maintenance to the vehicle and forget about the *mm*. Just like in the good old days, depend on written records or your memory and forget the new fangled gizmos. :^) >> I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me >> that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > vehicle and forget about the *mm*. Just like in the good old days, depend > on written records or your memory and forget the new fangled gizmos. :^) ...ah, the true Luddite has spoken;-) >> I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes >> me [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the good old days, depend on written records or your memory and > forget the new fangled gizmos. :^) That is so.........analog! >> I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me >> that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > days, depend on written records or your memory and forget the new > fangled gizmos. :^) do you use a fuel gauge? or do you just fill up every other day and ignore the new fangled gizmo that tells you how much usage you have left? > do you use a fuel gauge? or do you just fill up every other day and > ignore the new fangled gizmo that tells you how much usage you have left? I am quite aware of how far I can travel with my vehicle on a tank of fuel. I don't need to watch the fuel gauge, little Jimmy. That's a bit out in left field even for you isn't it? > rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > days, depend on written records or your memory and forget the new > fangled gizmos. :^) Hey, I agree with you. I'm just inclined to think about obeying this silly thing at least while the car is under full warranty--so as not to give any wiggle room for Honda in the event of future problems. I can just hear: "did you follow the Mainentance Minder?" >> I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me >> that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > vehicle and forget about the *mm*. Just like in the good old days, depend > on written records or your memory and forget the new fangled gizmos. :^) The computer takes into consideration accumulated engine revolutions and operating conditions. Why is spacing oil changes based on an arbitrary amount of miles or time superior to that? > > rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > operating conditions. Why is spacing oil changes based on an arbitrary > amount of miles or time superior to that? Here is the formula BMW uses for their oil change messaging: e = a(1 + t + r) = estimated mileage a= actual mileage t = 1 if engine temp below operating temp, else t = 0 r = .5 if engine above 4500 RPM, else r = 0 You should see that this simple estimating formula pretty much is sheer mileage-based for the average adult driver tooling around town or out in the country. One of its major flaws is it doesn't take into account engine run time (say, for a person who does a lot of sitting daily in city traffic commuting). >>> rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > take into account engine run time (say, for a person who does > a lot of sitting daily in city traffic commuting). so where is your oil analysis? why does the "expert" change synthetic oil after only 8.5k? i'm unimpressed with your formula btw. that may have been an approximation from back in the 70's, but we've moved on a little since then... > rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> "Brian Smith" <Hali...@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > so where is your oil analysis? why does the "expert" change synthetic > oil after only 8.5k? Why would you expect me to go into any technical detail with you on this when you've shown quite clearly your inability to understand even the basic problem points (clearly stated by me) with the MM? Your posting alias was chosen well it seems. > i'm unimpressed with your formula btw. that may have been an > approximation from back in the 70's, but we've moved on a little since > then This is the formula used in their models during the last ten years for BMW oil change countdown lights. Are you ever right about anything btw? >> rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>> rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > even the basic problem points (clearly stated by me) with the MM? > Your posting alias was chosen well it seems. try me. get as technical as you like. and feel free to post your oil analysis. >> i'm unimpressed with your formula btw. �that may have been an >> approximation from back in the 70's, but we've moved on a little since >> then > > This is the formula used in their models during the last ten years > for BMW oil change countdown lights. how do i know this for fact? do you expect me to just take your word for it when you've proven yourself unreliable? why would i believe anything that simplistic would be used on a machine that can compute ignition timing differently for each cylinder for each revolution based on, among other things, stoichiometry, angular velocity and fluctuation thereof, air density, temperatures of both air and coolant, coil saturation, blah, blah, blah... > Are you ever right about > anything btw? er, no, never. i just hang out on newsgroups, call myself an expert when i'm not, and feebly try to denigrate anyone who dares call me on my bullshit. In article <69be4364-045d-4a60-b6e6-ad858deec8f0@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > Here is the formula BMW uses for their oil change messaging: Is that current? And how does that matter to how Honda does it? On Oct 19, 4:52 am, "Truckdude" <sa...@duh.com> wrote: > "Brian Smith" <Hali...@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > arbitrary > amount of miles or time superior to that? Here is the formula BMW uses for their oil change messaging: e = a(1 + t + r) = estimated mileage a= actual mileage t = 1 if engine temp below operating temp, else t = 0 r = .5 if engine above 4500 RPM, else r = 0 You should see that this simple estimating formula pretty much is sheer mileage-based for the average adult driver tooling around town or out in the country. One of its major flaws is it doesn't take into account engine run time (say, for a person who does a lot of sitting daily in city traffic commuting). ---- Even without run time information, it is totals revs. If you factor someone living in an area such as the SF Bay, idling in traffic for say 30 minutes a day each way (a relatively low number for many!) at 700 rpm would add >40K revs per day multiplied by the mileage. > <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Even without run time information, it is totals revs. Actually, more or less the same thing. >If you factor > someone living in an area such as the SF Bay, idling in traffic for > say 30 minutes a day each way (a relatively low number for many!) at > 700 rpm would add >40K revs per day multiplied by the mileage Yep, you can just imagine the difference in the oil in person A's car--who sits in traffic over an hour each day in city commuting-- compared to person B's--who lives in a rural area and drives at normals speeds cruising during commutes each day--after 5000 miles. The forumula (since only 't' and 'r' increases increase the "estimated mileage") would have their 'e' very similar, which in reality would be quite different. > Here is the formula BMW uses for their oil change messaging: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > r = .5 if engine above 4500 RPM, else r = 0 That "formula" doesn't make any sense. Hint, it should be a summation of discrete events or an integral. > > Here is the formula BMW uses for their oil change messaging: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > That "formula" doesn't make any sense. Hint, it should be a summation > of discrete events or an integral. If you had read and let sink in my own comments on this formula, you would see that I am critical of it too. Not only should it be an integral, but I have always felt it left out the most important factor: engine run time, as I have stated here in other posts. I think you give automakers too much credit. > Here is the formula BMW uses for their oil change messaging: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > r = .5 if engine above 4500 RPM, else r = 0 1) How do you know this is so for modern BMWs? 2) What makes you sure Honda is using this formula as well? > rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > 1) How do you know this is so for modern BMWs? http://www.bimmerzone.com/resettoolabout.htm Still used as of at least 2007 models. BMWs require these tools for resetting fault codes and service lights. I still have mine. > 2) What makes you sure Honda is using this formula as well? I never said I was sure they did. One thing I've learned here is that Honda posters seem to make stuff up when they feel like it, which is often for some of the dimwits here. But what makes you think Honda isn't using it? My guess, judging from Honda's silly oil change-driven Maintenance Minder reminder system, is that their estimations might be even more crude. It still amazes me that they would come up with a system that never will remind an owner of any required maintenance (tire rotation, filters, all the rest) unless said owner lets the Oil Life get down to 15%. A typical clueless owner who, say, changes their oil ever 4k miles, and resets, will never get any indication that other things need to be done. They could drive the car for many tens of thousands of miles and think things are just fine & dandy. > The computer takes into consideration accumulated engine revolutions and > operating conditions. Why is spacing oil changes based on an arbitrary > amount of miles or time superior to that? Because Brian and Otis KNOW BETTER, didn't you read? They're EXPERTS. And you know, it isn't every day that you run across EXPERTS on the Usenet. Cherish the time they spend with us. > Because Brian and Otis KNOW BETTER, didn't you read? They're EXPERTS. Not necessarily experts, but we apparently know what works the best for our applications and that is the bottom line. > And you know, it isn't every day that you run across EXPERTS on the > Usenet. Cherish the time they spend with us. In much the same way in which we cherish the amount of time you not necessarily yourself, but certainly little Jimmy spends here dispensing *wisdom*. > > Because Brian and Otis KNOW BETTER, didn't you read? They're EXPERTS. > > Not necessarily experts, but we apparently know what works the best for > our applications and that is the bottom line. Absolutely. Because you know EVERYTHING about how your engine is designed and manufactured--more so than even the engineers who designed it. > > And you know, it isn't every day that you run across EXPERTS on the > > Usenet. Cherish the time they spend with us. > > In much the same way in which we cherish the amount of time you not > necessarily yourself, but certainly little Jimmy spends here dispensing > *wisdom*. Oh no, we cherish the time YOU choose to spend here, dispensing your wisdom. > Absolutely. Because you know EVERYTHING about how your engine is > designed and manufactured--more so than even the engineers who designed > it. What part of "I know what works for my application" did you not understand? I change my engine oil and all the fluids in my vehicles when I choose to, it is a practice that hasn't caused me any breakdowns or headaches in close to four decades of motor vehicle ownership. If that is wrong in your eyes, that is too bad, because practice has proven it to be correct. > Oh no, we cherish the time YOU choose to spend here, dispensing your > wisdom. It's experience that has proven itself. Many people will call it wisdom with a less sarcastic tone. They would be the people that know that eliminating breakdowns through preventative maintenance is the smartest way to operate. You ... well >> Absolutely. Because you know EVERYTHING about how your engine is >> designed and manufactured--more so than even the engineers who [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that eliminating breakdowns through preventative maintenance is the > smartest way to operate. You ... well no dude, that's like saying that because you keep cheese in the fridge, and elephants don't like cheese, you've successfully prevented elephants from invading your kitchen. science and engineering are built on measurement. anything else is guesswork. fact is, there /are/ no elephants in nova scotia, so your "prevention" is wasted. > > Absolutely. Because you know EVERYTHING about how your engine is > > designed and manufactured--more so than even the engineers who designed > > it. > > What part of "I know what works for my application" did you not > understand? What part of "the engineers are actually MEASURING your application dynamically, and understand its ramifications on the system they designed better than YOU do" don't you understand? > I change my engine oil and all the fluids in my vehicles > when I choose to, it is a practice that hasn't caused me any breakdowns > or headaches in close to four decades of motor vehicle ownership. Ah, the old "things never change, therefore I don't have to either" argument. I guess if you do start out with the premise that things never change, then in fact you DON'T have to. This reminds me of a recent call to Car Talk, where some girl's father had taught her to do some weirdness with the gas pump hose after shutting it off, because in HIS day you did it to drain out ALL that gas that's left in the hose--gas you've already paid for. She blindly did this, because after all that's what her father taught her. Come to find out, over the last 50 years gas pumps have changed! <gasp!> And with ACTUAL measurements, it turns out that there's about 4 millilitres of fuel left in the hose after the pump shuts off. Of course, things DO change. Engines change, the engineering changes, the computerized controls change. Our knowledge of what conditions cause what symptoms and/or problems accumulates, to the point where the computer can be accurately programmed to interact with the various sensors to tell YOU, the driver, in simple terms what's needed when it's needed. And remember, oil formulations have changed as well. It's not 1960 anymore. > It's experience that has proven itself. Many people will call it wisdom > with a less sarcastic tone. They would be the people that know that > eliminating breakdowns through preventative maintenance is the smartest > way to operate. You ... well Nobody's disputing preventive maintenance. What we're disputing is your "wisdom" as developed on old systems and never changed for the times, never taking into account that we can know much more about the system than you are willing to acknowledge. Sure, we can change the oil every 3000 miles. That's cheap insurance. But if you KNOW the condition of the oil, then you're better off. Maybe you drove it such that it needs changing in 2000 miles, and you're screwing yourself on reliability. Or maybe you drove it such that the oil still has 90% of its useful life left after 5000 miles. Yes, you could change it--but that costs money that you don't have to spend, AND you have KNOWLEDGE that you don't have to spend it. In 1960, you didn't know the state of the oil so you made wild-a.s guesses and went with what worked. But you no longer have to make wild-a.s guesses; so, what force drives you to ignore the ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of the state of the system and continue with your wild-a.s guesses? Before you know it, you'll be able to buy a home oil analyzer that will take your dipstick in and tell you the exact state of your oil, complete with life remaining and a program that tracks your driving style as determined by your oil analyses. But I imagine you'll continue with your wild-a.s guesses. What you have is called being an old fart. > What you have is called being an old fart. Well, this old fart is going to continue on with the program that works. If you don't like it, that's your decision. But it has proven itself over a number of decades and what works, is nothing to get rid of just because of technology. >> What you have is called being an old fart. > > Well, this old fart is going to continue on with the program that > works. If you don't like it, that's your decision. But it has proven > itself over a number of decades and what works, is nothing to get rid of > just because of technology. keep those elephants at bay there brian! you'll be safe with your refrigerator full of cheese when the rest of nova scotia is completely over-run. > > What you have is called being an old fart. > > Well, this old fart is going to continue on with the program that > works. If you don't like it, that's your decision. But it has proven > itself over a number of decades and what works, is nothing to get rid of > just because of technology. Sure it works, just like 2000 mile oil change intervals will work. Just like renting a crane to lift your car off the ground so you can rotate the tires works. All sorts of stupid and expensive processes can produce positive end results. That doesn't make the processes any less stupid or expensive. > Sure it works, just like 2000 mile oil change intervals will work. Just > like renting a crane to lift your car off the ground so you can rotate > the tires works. > > All sorts of stupid and expensive processes can produce positive end > results. That doesn't make the processes any less stupid or expensive. You are truly dense. I said it was cost effective for my application. I'll translate that for you as you seem to have comprehension issues, that means quite simply that it saves me money to perform the maintenance to my vehicles using the method that I have used for decades. >> Sure it works, just like 2000 mile oil change intervals will work. Just >> like renting a crane to lift your car off the ground so you can rotate [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >that means quite simply that it saves me money to perform the >maintenance to my vehicles using the method that I have used for decades. Let's see You: Drive the car on to the ramps, pull the drain plug, pull the filter, replace filter gasket, replace filter, replace drain plug gasket, pour in oil. repeat every 3000 miles Me: Drive the car on to the ramps, pull the drain plug, pull the filter, replace filter gasket, replace filter, replace drain plug gasket, pour in oil. repeat every 7000 miles. One of us is spending less money. > >> All sorts of stupid and expensive processes can produce positive end > >> results. That doesn't make the processes any less stupid or expensive. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > One of us is spending less money. And less time. Brian doesn't want to *know* anything beyond "my process hasn't broken my car yet". I wonder what Brian would say to someone who changes his synthetic oil religiously every 2000 miles. I bet Brian would have ALL SORTS of snide remarks for THAT guy. Never mind that it's the same "my process hasn't broken my car yet" mindset... > > All sorts of stupid and expensive processes can produce positive end > > results. That doesn't make the processes any less stupid or expensive. > > You are truly dense. I said it was cost effective for my application. I'm not dense. You aren't measuring anything; all you know is "I've done it this way for 40 years and so far nothing's broken." That doesn't mean anything more than "nothing's broken". If that's all you care about, fine. OTOH, maybe you'd like to know if/how you could TWEAK your process, FINE TUNE it--save a few dollars, save some time on unnecessary oil changes, whatever. At least have the actual INFORMATION in hand, so that you can make an INFORMED decision. But no, it seems like you and otis want NOT to have the actual information in hand. It seems like you and otis want NOT to know anything. You know all you need. That sounds like a crack dealer on the corner. Keepin' it real, are you? "I don't need to know that sh.t!" > > Absolutely. Because you know EVERYTHING about how your engine is > > designed and manufactured--more so than even the engineers who designed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that is wrong in your eyes, that is too bad, because practice has proven > it to be correct. Yep, I'm a little younger than you, but I've kept a couple of cars many years (currently have one nearly 20 years old, always maintained by yours truly and still runs great). The yo-yo you responded to who gives the great reverence and weight to the stuff put out by automakers has evidently been in a fog most of his life. It has LONG been the practice of automakers to lengthen the stated service intervals on various items, obviously to make their cars appear more maintenance free, and therefore more attractive for purchase. Old stuff. After all, they're the ones who will sell you new wheels when the old car starts barking.:) One recent example is a big issue with a large number of VW owners who were following their owners manuals and not bothering to change their timing belts till the 100k mark stated in their manuals. Guess what, these belts actually started failing em masse at anywhere from 65-80k miles, as would be expected for a timing belt. But purchasers who were uninformed about timing belts believed the manual, and most paid around 4k for extensive engine work because of the failed belts. But hey, people like shagnasty are needed in society. After all, the people who sell times shares, rent-to-own services, and bad mortgage deals have to make a living too!:) >>> Absolutely. �Because you know EVERYTHING about how your engine is >>> designed and manufactured--more so than even the engineers who designed [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > all, the people who sell times shares, rent-to-own services, > and bad mortgage deals have to make a living too!:) ad hominem doesn't make you factually correct, it makes you look like a loser. where is your oil analysis? > ad hominem doesn't make you factually correct, it makes you look like a > loser. where is your oil analysis? This, coming from the King of Snotty Remarks?! >> ad hominem doesn't make you factually correct, it makes you look like a >> loser. where is your oil analysis? >This, coming from the King of Snotty Remarks?! You really look stupid bordering on insanity when you continue to post ad hominem's when your logical falacy has been pointed out to you in terms that hit you in the face. >> ad hominem doesn't make you factually correct, it makes you look like >> a loser. where is your oil analysis? > > This, coming from the King of Snotty Remarks?! actually, i'm the king of "don't pollute the knowledge pool with b.s.". > > ad hominem doesn't make you factually correct, it makes you look like a > > loser. where is your oil analysis? > > This, coming from the King of Snotty Remarks?! Where is his oil analysis? Never mind the tone in which the question was asked. You are merely attempting to redirect attention away from the very valid question: where is his oil analysis? No oil analysis = no facts. > Yep, I'm a little younger than you, but I've kept a couple of cars > many > years (currently have one nearly 20 years old, always maintained by > yours truly and still runs great). That is my point if a program works, there is no need to upgrade. That has become a common misconception put in place by Microsoft. :^) > The yo-yo you responded to who > gives the great reverence and weight to the stuff put out by [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > they're the ones who will sell you new wheels when the old car > starts barking.:) That's their plan, which is fine because they are in business to turn a profit. > One recent example is a big issue with a large > number of VW owners who were following their owners manuals [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > about timing belts believed the manual, and most paid around > 4k for extensive engine work because of the failed belts. Some people never learn. > But hey, people like shagnasty are needed in society. After > all, the people who sell times shares, rent-to-own services, > and bad mortgage deals have to make a living too!:) LOL! > Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs > changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. I've seen signs in the dealer service department warning owners against premature oil changes. But these were mainly to dissuade owners from doing the first oil change at 1000 miles, before the break-in oil had done its job. While there is no benefit to doing the oil change earlier than the vehicle tells you, at 5000 miles it's safe to remove the break-in oil. Some people like to do recreational oil changing. As long as they leave the break-in oil in the vehicle for 5000 miles this is okay. > > Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs > > changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. > > I've seen signs in the dealer service department warning owners against > premature oil changes. Then again, there are dealerships like this one (not rare). They talk about the MM, then go into *their* recommended service intervals, which are much more frequent of course, making their Maintenance Minder essentially useless: http://www.rickwoodsonhonda.com/index.cfm?action=service#4 And after googling for 'break-in oil' for my own amusement, I got the following bit of wisdom: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2420 No wonder so many car owners are confused. >But these were mainly to dissuade owners from > doing the first oil change at 1000 miles, before the break-in oil had [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Some people like to do recreational oil changing. As long as they leave > the break-in oil in the vehicle for 5000 miles this is okay. >>> Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs >>> changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2420 you call that wisdom??? i call it a bunch of carp from four old farts that evidently don't know what oil analysis is, and couldn't spell "tribology" if you gave them a dictionary. > No wonder so many car owners are confused. someone sure is! how is your oil analysis coming along? >> But these were mainly to dissuade owners from >> doing the first oil change at 1000 miles, before the break-in oil had [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Some people like to do recreational oil changing. As long as they leave >> the break-in oil in the vehicle for 5000 miles this is okay. In article <90b8a7fc-bee5-4650-bb67-d4a8f27c6bfb@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, > > Changing your oil at 5,000 miles is wasteful of both your money and a > > natural resource. Depending on your driving conditions you may need to > > change at 5k, maybe 10k but, maybe not, why waste? let go, let Honda :-). > > I am actually quite an expert on the subject of oil changes More so than the engineers at Honda? Are you an expert on oil changes in Honda's engines? Working at Jiffy Lube doesn't count. |
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