Lug nut Torque - 06 Civic Si

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Joe - 24 Apr 2009 09:54 GMT

Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug nuts
on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get them",
using either a wrench or an impact gun. Since I am worried about the
potential of warping the rotors, I bought a torque wrench and today I
replaced the wheels on my 06 Civic Si.

The specs I found said 80 ft/lbs. This is what I did. It really
doesn't seem all that tight, though. Is this the right torque, or was
I mislead? Last thing I want is a wheel coming off at speed, and I DO
like to drive hard... ;-)

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Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

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Clete - 24 Apr 2009 12:20 GMT

>Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug nuts
>on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get them",
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I mislead? Last thing I want is a wheel coming off at speed, and I DO
>like to drive hard... ;-)

Lug nuts have no bearing at all on rotors. Torque for lug nuts is for
1. Safety
2. Alloy rims and safety

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Joe - 24 Apr 2009 21:52 GMT

>>Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug nuts
>>on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get them",
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> 1. Safety
> 2. Alloy rims and safety

I am pretty sure you are wrong on this. I have read many reports, as
well as talked to several mechanics, who have stated that over-torque
on lug nuts on single thickness (non-ventilated) rotors will cause
warping.

I am no expert, by far, but I have already seen a difference. The
front wheels were making noise when torqued up, and the noise has
disappeared at 80 ft/lbs.

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Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

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jim beam - 25 Apr 2009 01:44 GMT

>>> Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug nuts
>>> on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get them",
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> I am pretty sure you are wrong on this.

indeed.

> I have read many reports, as
> well as talked to several mechanics, who have stated that over-torque
> on lug nuts on single thickness (non-ventilated) rotors will cause
> warping.

not permanent warping, but elastic distortion that makes the brakes
shudder. if you take the disk off, you can see how skinny the honda hub
is. it's strong enough for the job, but has no excess weight, therefore
no excess stiffness. easy to elastically distort under uneven lug nut
loading.

> I am no expert, by far, but I have already seen a difference. The
> front wheels were making noise when torqued up, and the noise has
> disappeared at 80 ft/lbs.

that's usual.

with alloys though, you need to re-torque them after a few miles from
re-fitting. they tend to move about on the hub a little and the lug
nuts loosen. after that, they're fine.

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Tony Hwang - 25 Apr 2009 02:11 GMT

>> Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug nuts
>> on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get them",
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> 1. Safety
> 2. Alloy rims and safety

Hi,
No bearing on rotor? If you tighten it too mcuh you can warp the rotor
(specially the non cast iron rotor; punched one)

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Tegger - 24 Apr 2009 13:14 GMT

> Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug nuts
> on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get them",
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The specs I found said 80 ft/lbs. This is what I did. It really
> doesn't seem all that tight, though. Is this the right torque,

It is the correct torque. 80 ft-lbs puts a LOT of clamping force on the
wheel.

Too many clueless people seem to think the "correct" torque is the figure
where they need to jump on the ratchet to achieve it.

> or was
> I mislead? Last thing I want is a wheel coming off at speed, and I DO
> like to drive hard... ;-)

At 80 ft-lbs you will have no problems with wheels coming loose. Nor will
you have problems with studs snapping off.

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Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

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Joe - 24 Apr 2009 21:54 GMT

>> Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug nuts
>> on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get them",
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> It is the correct torque. 80 ft-lbs puts a LOT of clamping force on the
> wheel.

Thanks Teg. It just FEELS to light... ;-)

> Too many clueless people seem to think the "correct" torque is the figure
> where they need to jump on the ratchet to achieve it.

It's the way most of us were taught by Dad... ;-)

>> or was
>> I mislead? Last thing I want is a wheel coming off at speed, and I DO
>> like to drive hard... ;-)
>
> At 80 ft-lbs you will have no problems with wheels coming loose. Nor will
> you have problems with studs snapping off.

Exactly what I needed. As always, appreciate the good info.

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Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

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Tegger - 24 Apr 2009 22:17 GMT

>>> Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug
>>> nuts on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks Teg. It just FEELS to light... ;-)

That's why people break fasteners (I'll turn the wrench juuuust a little
more...).

You need to learn the "feel" that comes with approaching correct torque.
There's a sudden ramp-up in turning effort that is your clue.

>> Too many clueless people seem to think the "correct" torque is the
>> figure where they need to jump on the ratchet to achieve it.
>
> It's the way most of us were taught by Dad... ;-)

My dad was a mechanical engineer. I still have his old beam-type torque
wrench.

>>> or was
>>> I mislead? Last thing I want is a wheel coming off at speed, and I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Exactly what I needed. As always, appreciate the good info.

You're welcome.

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Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

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tww1491 - 25 Apr 2009 00:00 GMT

>>>> Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug
>>>> nuts on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> My dad was a mechanical engineer. I still have his old beam-type torque
> wrench.

Still have mine.. was using it back in the 60s when I bought it at Sears.

>>>> or was
>>>> I mislead? Last thing I want is a wheel coming off at speed, and I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> You're welcome.

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Tegger - 25 Apr 2009 00:35 GMT

>> My dad was a mechanical engineer. I still have his old beam-type
>> torque wrench.
>>
> Still have mine.. was using it back in the 60s when I bought it at
> Sears.

Dad's old beam-type is the "DURO" brand, No. 8099½ (no I'm not kidding;
there really is a one-half symbol in there), made by Duro Metal Products of
Chicago. The unit calls itself a "Tension Indicator". Reads up to 100 ft
lbs.

Here it is:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/torque_wrench_comparing_2.jpg>

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Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

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jim beam - 25 Apr 2009 01:57 GMT

>>> My dad was a mechanical engineer. I still have his old beam-type
>>> torque wrench.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Here it is:
> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/torque_wrench_comparing_2.jpg>

how did they compare?

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Tegger - 25 Apr 2009 02:21 GMT

>>>> My dad was a mechanical engineer. I still have his old beam-type
>>>> torque wrench.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> how did they compare?

It was weird.

The Duro read a max of about 10% off either way from the clicker setting
when the clicker clicked. The clicker's advertised tolerance is 4% up or
down. I figured something had to be wrong with my setup, but I can't figure
out what that might have been. The barrel of the clicker was NOT distorted
at all by the vise. I checked with a mike.

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Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

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E. Meyer - 24 Apr 2009 13:22 GMT

On 4/24/09 3:54 AM, in article slrngv2vhn.rka.joe@barada.griffincs.local,

> Just wanted to double-check this. I have never tightened the lug nuts
> on tires using any method other than "as tight as you can get them",
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I mislead? Last thing I want is a wheel coming off at speed, and I DO
> like to drive hard... ;-)

80 ft/lbs has been the correct torque for Honda wheels for as long as I can
remember.

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Joe - 24 Apr 2009 21:54 GMT

> On 4/24/09 3:54 AM, in article slrngv2vhn.rka.joe@barada.griffincs.local,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> 80 ft/lbs has been the correct torque for Honda wheels for as long as I can
> remember.

Hey, this is my first Honda. While I've had it since new, I've never
changed a tire on it before...

Hell, this is my first car with alloy wheels... ;-)

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Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

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