 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2009Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts low or something drastic, which it wasn't. Thanks-- Al > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks-- > Al Strictly imagination. Of course, perhaps that would be the case if you never performed the required maintenance on time. >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Strictly imagination. Of course, perhaps that would be the case if you > never performed the required maintenance on time. Just like after a thorough car wash. >>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Just like after a thorough car wash. Or a new set of JDM "speed" decals... ;-) > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks-- > Al Not unless someone noticed a loose plug wire and stuck it back on or something like that ..... > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks-- > Al of course you could, although it really depends on the state of the old oil. usually, oil goes up in viscosity as particle load increases with age, so the engine will be having to work very slightly harder against that. you'd not expect a big difference on changing to fresh, but it can be there. i doubt that recreational oil changers that compulsively do it every 2k miles will notice anything. >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > there. i doubt that recreational oil changers that compulsively do it > every 2k miles will notice anything. http://www.bishopsperformance.com/dynoinfo.htm this is not a great link, but it's quick. "Another little known fact is that the type and weight of oil can affect the power as well. Pure synthetic oil can easily show a 1% - 3% or greater increase in horsepower compared to conventional petroleum based oil." the same applies for older more viscous oil. >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >there. i doubt that recreational oil changers that compulsively do it >every 2k miles will notice anything. What a complete lot of nonsense. If the lubricity of the oil changes in any perceptable degree, the engine bearings will fail. Particle entrainment in the oil does not increase viscosity. Incidentally where are these particles coming from? Surely you are not suggesting these are metallic particles from engine wear. Where do you people get their technical education from? >>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > What a complete lot of nonsense. If the lubricity of the oil changes > in any perceptable degree, the engine bearings will fail. you've worked with cars for /how/ long??? > Particle > entrainment in the oil does not increase viscosity. how odd - when you /measure/ viscosity over time, if the base doesn't degrade, viscosity goes up! strange how misleading measurements can be! > Incidentally > where are these particles coming from? er, it's called "combustion product". ever heard of that in a "combustion engine"? > Surely you are not suggesting > these are metallic particles from engine wear. there's all kinds of crap in there. anything too small for the filter remains in the oil. duh. > Where do you people > get their technical education from? clearly a much better place than you. >>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >clearly a much better place than you. So long as you have satisfied yourself you are correct that is the end of the matter no matter how wrong you happen to be. As an aside, take a glass of water and add a teaspoon full of sand to it. Shaker it. Does viscosity change? No? I wonder why given you believe entrained matter changes viscosity. Incidentally viscosity and lubricity are two separate characteristics. Combustion products in engine oil are entrained matter although some oxidation does occur which does not adversely affect lubricity or viscosity. What does get depleted in engine oil are additives which are the principal reason for oil change. On the matter of combustion products, provided the diameter of the products do not exceed oil film thickness they will do no harm and will be removed by the filter. Combustion products in the oil of a well maintained gas engine are minimal as compared to a trunk piston diesel engine. >>>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>>>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > As an aside, take a glass of water and add a teaspoon full of sand to > it. Shaker it. Does viscosity change? No? <snip bull> wow, i love this guy! facts simply don't get in your way, do they! what's next, mud is the same viscosity as water? 'cos that's the way /your/ example works buddy. you need to go back to your old high school and have a word with your old science teachers - they failed you big time. >Combustion products in the oil of a >well maintained gas engine are minimal as compared to a trunk piston >diesel engine. What is a trunk piston diesel engine?  SignatureClive > In message <vfadnSGpkPlbBGvUnZ2dnUVZ8redn...@bt.com>, Edward W. Thompson > <thomed...@btopenworld.com> writes>Combustion products in the oil of a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Clive Is that a diesel engine in a rear-engine or mid-engine car? Perhaps he meant "truck diesel engine." In message <aa14ffda-52b3-41fe-bcbd-13bbc774a7f5@z16g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Jeff <jeff.utz@gmail.com> writes >> What is a trunk piston diesel engine? >> -- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Perhaps he meant "truck diesel engine." I've googled for it, it just means normal pistons as in any i.c. engine instead of a thin piston driving a piston rod to a crosshead as in steam engines. SignatureClive Big Al <big@big.com> wrote in news:big-820E48.07530926042009 @freenews.netfront.net: > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and > I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be > any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts > low or something drastic, which it wasn't. No alterations will be felt simply by the fact of the oil change. Psychologically though, some may feel as though the car is running better because they've done something "good" for the car. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks-- > Al Of course you can! Just like after a nice wash and wax. Everything is smooth and powerful. At least, that's the way it is with me. jor > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks-- > Al Hi, Yes for sure. >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Hi, > Yes for sure. I notice the engine runs a little smoother with fresh oil. >>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I notice the engine runs a little smoother with fresh oil. Main thing I notice is the used oil kills the weeds along the fence. Here's some reading for ya, $10 Million, Just for Motor Oil The most advanced piece of technology in a Nascar vehicle these days isn't its engine, its suspension or anything made of carbon fiber. It's the motor oil. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123932274269507173.html >>>> Thanks-- >>>> Al [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > Main thing I notice is the used oil kills the weeds along the fence. I notice if you lived where I live, you'd have to pay a hefty fine and clean it up at enormous expense... >>>>> Thanks-- >>>>> Al [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I notice if you lived where I live, you'd have to pay a hefty fine and > clean it up at enormous expense... It's OK here, and it works great as termite preventer. I "scientifically" applied a few gallons to a section of fence with a Wagner spray gun and no termites on that section after 15 years, they went through the rest like a buzz saw. Neighbor thought I was running a tattoo gun and came over to see what kind of rig I was running. When I was a kid and we had to put in new fence posts, we routinely soaked the bottom foot or so in old drain oil. Did that now I'd be in jail. And no, I've never noticed anything after an oil change as far as performance. But I seldom go as far as 4000 miles as I prepayed for 3000/3month "free" lifetime oil/filter changes. Ron in Idaho >>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better >>>> acceleration, etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the motor oil. > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123932274269507173.html Whoa! You do what? I hope you are not using used oil to kill weeds. That is against the law for sure and BAD thing to do for the environment. >>>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better >>>>> acceleration, etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > You do what? I hope you are not using used oil to kill weeds. > That is against the law for sure and BAD thing to do for the environment. have you ever been to la brea tar pits? >>>>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better >>>>>> acceleration, etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > have you ever been to la brea tar pits? Hi, Have you been to oil sand tiling pond? >>>>>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better >>>>>>> acceleration, etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Hi, > Have you been to oil sand tiling pond? no, but i've been to the tar pits and they're rank. my point is, while i don't think it's a good idea to wantonly spread oil anywhere, nature does a pretty good job of spreading that stuff about on its own. >>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I notice the engine runs a little smoother with fresh oil. I notice my wallet is lighter. >>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I notice my wallet is lighter. That's for sure. > > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Hi, > Yes for sure. Well, not being a mechanic, I would've guessed the engine is controlled by a tightly timed ignition system rather than how lubricated the engine is. Al >> > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >by a tightly timed ignition system rather than how lubricated the engine >is. Mine runs better just after it's washed and even better if I get it waxed too. Signaturegburnore@databasix dot com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- How you look depends on where you go. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ DataBasix | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ | ÝÛ³ 3 4 1 4 2 ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝÛ³ Black Helicopter Repair Svcs Division | Official Proof of Purchase =========================================================================== Want one? GET one! http://signup.databasix.com =========================================================================== > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? No. > Someone is claiming this and > I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be > any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts > low or something drastic, which it wasn't. People claim a lot of things. I.e. they claim they can feel the difference between synthetic base stock oil and petroleum base stock oil, but of course they can't. >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > difference between synthetic base stock oil and petroleum base stock > oil, but of course they can't. except that you can measure the difference on a dyno. 1-3% in not trivial. that means you'll be a cars length ahead of the guy that started beside you by the end of the block. > >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > trivial. that means you'll be a cars length ahead of the guy that > started beside you by the end of the block. A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. No, it's one's imagination. Jeff >>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Jeff not good at math - are you. > A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in > acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. > > No, it's one's imagination. What's rather amusing is that even companies like Exxon-Mobile have never claimed, nor of course proven, an increase in MPG from synthetic base stock oil. Of course you see claims all over the map from Amsoil's multi-level-marketing distributors. Of course there are benefits to synthetic base stock oil in some circumstances, such as extremely cold climates. For most people, synthetic is simply throwing money away, other than the fact that it makes them feel good by believing they are doing something good. It's rather like a religion. >> A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in >> acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > never claimed, nor of course proven, an increase in MPG from synthetic > base stock oil. er, yes they have. that's why they have "economy" branded blends. > Of course you see claims all over the map from Amsoil's > multi-level-marketing distributors. of course, because amsoil marketeers are f.ck-heads, that means all the technology of all other companies is bogus! > Of course there are benefits to synthetic base stock oil in some > circumstances, such as extremely cold climates. but you just said that there's no such thing as better economy. you /do/ know that economy and viscosity, what affects cold starting, are related don't you??? oh, wait, maybe you didn't. > For most people, > synthetic is simply throwing money away, other than the fact that it > makes them feel good by believing they are doing something good. It's > rather like a religion. yup. and remaining fiercely ignorant is a fabulous way to go through life. > > A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in > > acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > base stock oil. Of course you see claims all over the map from Amsoil's > multi-level-marketing distributors. They don't? Look here: <http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/ Oils/Mobil_1_FAQs.aspx#FAQs1> > Of course there are benefits to synthetic base stock oil in some > circumstances, such as extremely cold climates. For most people, > synthetic is simply throwing money away, other than the fact that it > makes them feel good by believing they are doing something good. It's > rather like a religion. Actually, if there is less friction, there is better fuel economy. And to meet the oil standards set by the API, the oil has to save fuel. And, the engine will last longer. Overall, though, the savings are small and only a small percentage of people will actually have their cars long enough to benefit from a longer-lasting engine. Most people sell their cars well before this or the cars have other problems, like that a crash, that ends the service of the car. Jeff >>> A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in >>> acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > They don't? Look here: <http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/ > Oils/Mobil_1_FAQs.aspx#FAQs1> They only claim the increased fuel economy for 0W20 and 0W30. Yeah, since it's not possible to make a 0W20 or 0W30 with petroleum base stock, they have a point there. But even for the "Advanced Fuel Economy" products, they keep going back to "during warm up" every time they make a claim of reduced friction or "saving" energy. "During warm-up, Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy flows faster because of its lower viscosity to minimize metal to metal contact to reduce friction and wear." "During the warm up phase, the Mobil 1 fully synthetic formulation because of its lower viscosity flows more easily through the oil pump, requiring less energy to pump the oil to the critical engine parts." "http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx" But for their "regular" synthetic oil, 5W20 and 5W30, they make no claims of increased fuel economy. >>>> A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in >>>> acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > its lower viscosity to minimize metal to metal contact to reduce > friction and wear." you're confused dude. badly confused. > "During the warm up phase, the Mobil 1 fully synthetic formulation > because of its lower viscosity flows more easily through the oil pump, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But for their "regular" synthetic oil, 5W20 and 5W30, they make no > claims of increased fuel economy. see above. > >>> A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in > >>> acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > But for their "regular" synthetic oil, 5W20 and 5W30, they make no > claims of increased fuel economy. Really? <http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/ GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.asp> Are you going to keep backtracking? <snip for clarity> > Are you going to keep backtracking? of course he is - he doesn't understand what the heck he's talking about. >>>>> A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in >>>>> acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Are you going to keep backtracking? No offense, but you need to learn to read for comprehension. Nowhere do they make a claim on that page that their 5W20 synthetic base stock product provides better fuel economy that a comparable 5W20 petroleum base stock product. Why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows a benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any! After all these years you'd think that there would be at least one published study that showed a provable benefit in terms of wear, MPG, or extended change intervals for synthetics uses in non-high performance engines, operated in moderate climates. But there aren't _any_. There's anecdotes by users of synthetics, there's claims by companies like Amsoil which have never been validated, and of course various claims by MLM people selling Amsoil. Just choose your benefit from one of the hundreds of MLM web sites! Of course there probably have been plenty of studies that were done but not published because they didn't have the results that the company paying for the study wanted. It's amusing that not even Mobil, who would have the most to gain by some evidence of increased fuel economy for synthetics, can make that claim. All we see is a heavily qualified statement that logically makes no sense: "Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions, adjusting tire pressure, and your current engine oil viscosity." Huh? So adjusting tire pressure affects how well synthetic oil works (as opposed to how well dino oil performs, LOL). And how does your current oil viscosity, if it's the same as the viscosity of the synthetic, make any difference. So here's what Mobil thinks you should do: 1. Change to a lower viscosity of synthetic base stock oil than the petroleum base stock oil that you're currently using 2. Drive only in extremely cold temperatures where sythetic has a benefit at start-up. 3. Adjust your tire pressure, from the previously under-inflated pressure you had with your petroleum base stock oil, to the proper pressure. Geez, some people are gullible. <snip for clarity> > Geez, some people are <snip> STOOOOPID. > <snip for clarity> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > STOOOOPID. Far as I'm concerned, SMS is a long-haired maggot-infested dope-smoking FM type. If he was called to give professional testimony, as a judge, I'd have the whole thing stricken from the record as being unreliable. Charles Grozny > >>>>> A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in > >>>>> acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Huh? So adjusting tire pressure affects how well synthetic oil works (as > opposed to how well dino oil performs, LOL). Tire pressure affects fuel economy. > And how does your current > oil viscosity, if it's the same as the viscosity of the synthetic, make > any difference. If you change from 10W30 regular to 5W20 synthetic vs. changing from 2W20 regular to 5W20 synthetic, you will have a different change in fuel economy. > So here's what Mobil thinks you should do: > > 1. Change to a lower viscosity of synthetic base stock oil than the > petroleum base stock oil that you're currently using Where did they say that? > 2. Drive only in extremely cold temperatures where sythetic has a > benefit at start-up. Where did they say that? > 3. Adjust your tire pressure, from the previously under-inflated > pressure you had with your petroleum base stock oil, to the proper pressure. Where did they say that? > Geez, some people are gullible. And some people are just plain stupid. You have GW Bush disease. <snip> > Tire pressure affects fuel economy. Of course it does, but Mobil is being disingenuous when they claim that tire pressure has an effect on how well their synthetic base stock oil performs versus how well a petroleum base stock oil performs. It makes no difference. You should keep your tires properly inflated no matter which type of oil you use. > If you change from 10W30 regular to 5W20 synthetic vs. changing from > 2W20 regular to 5W20 synthetic, you will have a different change in > fuel economy. And if you change from 10W30 petroleum base stock to 5W20 petroleum base stock you'll see the same change in fuel economy. Of course you should not make that change no matter which base stock you're using, but that's another matter entirely. Mobil is trying to get people to change multiple variables at the same time, one of them being the base stock of the oil, then claiming the increased fuel economy from switching to a lower viscosity oil and proper tire pressure is due to the change in the base stock. Even for their "Advanced Fuel Economy" formulation, the increase in MPG isn't due to the base stock being synthetic, except for the fact that apparently it's not practical to make a petroleum base stock 0Wxx oil. Even then, they're hedging their bets, admitting that the advantage is during start-up, not during normal operation. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tire pressure has an effect on how well their synthetic base stock oil > performs versus how well a petroleum base stock oil performs. dude, you have a serious reading comprehension problem. > It makes > no difference. You should keep your tires properly inflated no matter [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Even then, they're hedging their bets, admitting that the advantage is > during start-up, not during normal operation. see above. quit while you're behind. >After all these years you'd think that there would be at least one >published study that showed a provable benefit in terms of wear, MPG, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >various claims by MLM people selling Amsoil. Just choose your benefit >from one of the hundreds of MLM web sites! I used to work for a company that made polymer or synthetic additives to prolong oil life, I am also old enough to remember when it was normal to change oil ever 3000 miles, but due to additives now the oil wear is less, modern oils allow for annual changes or up to 20,000 miles between changes, that's what synthetics are all about. ( Yes it wears out due to the shear forces in an engine chopping up the long chain molecules into shorter runnier ones, lowering it's viscosity and therefore protection.) SignatureClive >> After all these years you'd think that there would be at least one >> published study that showed a provable benefit in terms of wear, MPG, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > long chain molecules into shorter runnier ones, lowering it's viscosity > and therefore protection.) Yes, longer change intervals is what synthetic is good for. When Mobil 1 first came out, Mobil was promoting 25K miles between oil changes, but they quickly backed down from that recommendation because they didn't want to be liable for warranty issues resulting from owners violating the required oil change interval in the manual. Now the longer change intervals are finally making it to the U.S.. The Mini Cooper is at 15K miles now with synthetic. Going beyond 15-20K is dicey, not because the oil no longer lubricates, but because of the acidity caused by the by-products of combustion. If you could add some more additives that neutralize the acid, you could go even longer. > > In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS > > <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > acidity caused by the by-products of combustion. If you could add some > more additives that neutralize the acid, you could go even longer. One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil. Jeff >>> In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS >>> <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Jeff actually, it's stability of the base oil, not so much the additives. because the base is highly refined, it doesn't have nasties in it like aromatics, branched chains, sulfur, etc. thus the base, 1-decene for example, is highly stable, and so doesn't break down. indeed, 25k was mobil's original stance on synthetics because it was a real number, and they were prepared to unconditionally guarantee it too. but it's not good for sales and dealer service profits, so they backed down. you can try it yourself though - just send oil in for analysis and see how it's doing. >>> In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS >>> <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Jeff Hi, How about starting with definition of synthetic? >>>> In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS >>>> <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Hi, > How about starting with definition of synthetic? actually, "synthetic" is hokus pokus. been to the auto parts store lately? looked at brake fluid? noticed how there's a premium on "synthetic"? well, /all/ brake fluid is "synthetic"! for motor oil, provided the base stock has the required formula, it doesn't matter whether it was refined or synthesized. one more thing - despite the fact that "synthetic" motor oils can indeed be superior stuff, their price premium is a rip compared to production price. in indonesia where there's a large g.t.l. [gas to liquid] facility that manufactures a lot of the world's synthetic oil base stocks, the stuff they don't sell for lubes is sold as diesel oil. yes, it's that cheap. >>>>> In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS >>>>> <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > stocks, the stuff they don't sell for lubes is sold as diesel oil. yes, > it's that cheap. Hi, Where do you live? Have any experience driving in sub-arctic zone where they never shut off engines once it is started in winter time? Even where I live, it is PRETTY cold in the winter. Including wind chill, temp. can reach down to -45F or so. Synthetic oil DOES make big difference. > Where do you live? Have any experience driving in sub-arctic zone where > they never shut off engines once it is started in winter time? Even > where I live, it is PRETTY cold in the winter. Including wind chill, > temp. can reach down to -45F or so. Synthetic oil DOES make big difference. Yes, it's true that synthetics have a benefit in extremely cold climates. But go by the actual temperature, your car engine doesn't care about the wind chill, which is solely for body heat. >>>>>> In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS >>>>>> <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > where I live, it is PRETTY cold in the winter. Including wind chill, > temp. can reach down to -45F or so. Synthetic oil DOES make big difference. the oil does indeed make a difference - i'm talking about the word. "s-y-n-t-h-e-t-i-c" is primarily a retail marketing device. "group IV" is what the industry uses. > One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more > additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil. Actually one benefit of the synthetics is that the superior base stock needs less additives to maintain viscosity, so you get more base stock and less viscosity modifiers. Synthetics become acidic, and eventually become saturated with suspended soot particles, just like regular oil. An oil analysis is a good investment to determine the optimum oil change interval, but since you really shouldn't be exceeding the manufacturer's requirements during the warranty period, and the manufacturers are very conservative, there's no benefit to using a synthetic if you're doing 7500 or 5000 mile oil changes (except in very cold climates). >> One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more >> additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Synthetics become acidic, /all/ motor oils become acidic. that's because of combustion product. > and eventually become saturated with suspended > soot particles, just like regular oil. > > An oil analysis is a good investment to determine the optimum oil change > interval, but since you really shouldn't be exceeding the manufacturer's > requirements er, the whole point of using analysis is so that you /know/ the condition of the oil. wtf would you disregard analysis in favor of guesswork? > during the warranty period, and the manufacturers are very > conservative, there's no benefit to using a synthetic if you're doing > 7500 or 5000 mile oil changes (except in very cold climates). >> A car's length? It would be hard to feel the difference in >> acceleration. Plus, you would have to floor it to feel the difference. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > makes them feel good by believing they are doing something good. It's > rather like a religion. Hmmm, I don't live my life based on some one's claim. >>>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Jeff Hi, Then you must be so called motor vehicle operator, not a driver. >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > difference between synthetic base stock oil and petroleum base stock > oil, but of course they can't. Hmmm, They can unless being dumb. Just watch the tach. > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks-- > Al IMO, it's their imagination. I've never noticed anything, unless I had something else adjusted along with the oil change. Cathy >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Cathy Hi, Dull people can't even imagine, LOL! > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks-- > Al If I do it myself - No change... If I have it done by someone - most definitely!!!! My wallet always feels much lighter!!!!!!!!!!!! DaveD If you're changing every 3-5,000 miles, then most likely you won't/ can't detect a difference. However, if the oil level was down a quart or two, and was excessively dirty, then I can at least entertain the possibility that it would make a difference with fresh oil hitting all the lubricated surfaces inside the motor. After changing the oil on a friend's car after 11K miles between changes, I recall that it seemed to idle smoother and quieter afterward. > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks-- > Al |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.