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Car Forum / Honda Cars / May 2009Tegger's 'Teg passes another emissions test!
With 321,000 miles on it. That aftermarket Walker-brand cat is working much better than I expected it to. Check out the NO number especially. Results here: <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/91_integra_emissions.html>  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > With 321,000 miles on it. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Results here: > <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/91_integra_emissions.html> Congrats, Tegger! >> With 321,000 miles on it. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Congrats, Tegger! I was happy. I'm off the hook for two more years. The Walker has been on the car for something close to 20,000 miles, and I was honestly not expecting it to actually be functioning by the time smog came around. My primary issue with the Walker is the horribly loud ticking that it and its spring bolts make ALL THE TIME. I let the mechanic (not my usual guy) talk me into an aftermarket Walker A-pipe because he said the two would mate better than an OEM A-pipe and a Walker cat. BAD choice. The damned assembly is noisy as all get-out. I almost want to smear that stupid A-pipe with salt and chlorine in order to get it to rust out really fast so I can justify the cost of a new OEM A-pipe and bolts. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Always good to see these reports. I make a mental note and then often end up groups.google searching for some of Tegger's updates somewhere down the line. One interesting point to me: His Integra is passing smog with an 8- year-old, 146k miles O2 sensor. I had almost talked myself into replacing these every 50k miles, based on some suspicions on why my 91 Civic a few months ago could not get past smog. honda.lioness@gmail.com wrote in news:d4509dc8-19af-420f-9ccf- acdda05ea5de@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com: > Always good to see these reports. I make a mental note and then often > end up groups.google searching for some of Tegger's updates somewhere > down the line. > > One interesting point to me: His Integra is passing smog with an 8- > year-old, 146k miles O2 sensor. This was interesting to me as well because I did have considerable concern about the oxygen sensor before this test. The original sensor was replaced on account of the Check Engine light having come on twice with a Code 1 in the months before the first test. The current replacement sensor has not yet tripped any codes, but it's getting very close to the mileage where the original sensor began to give trouble. Maybe Denso has improved their sensors since 1991. And maybe the newer gasoline is formulated to be kinder to oxygen sensors. The original sensor spent all of its life in the presence of MMT, which can cause deposits on certain emissions control hardware. The new sensor has seen little MMT. > I had almost talked myself into > replacing these every 50k miles, based on some suspicions on why my 91 > Civic a few months ago could not get past smog. I've seen numerous recommendations both on and off-line that sensors should be replaced every 60K as a matter of course. But at over $300 for new OEM Denso, it seems to me that ours ought to last quite a lot longer than 60K. And it seems like they do exceed that figure by a considerable distance. Did you ever post your numbers when the Civic wouldn't pass? SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > I've seen numerous recommendations both on and off-line that sensors should > be replaced every 60K as a matter of course. But at over $300 for new OEM > Denso, it seems to me that ours ought to last quite a lot longer than 60K. For my 91 Civic and now 93 Civic, I can get the new OEM Denso oxygen sensor through Amazon for about $30. www.densoproducts.com is almost as competitive. > And it seems like they do exceed that figure by a considerable distance. > > Did you ever post your numbers when the Civic wouldn't pass? No. I had it tested several times. Mostly it failed at idle but not at high speed. The last reading before I sold my 91 Civic (to people living in a no emissions testing required county): Failed idle with HC = 460 (limit is 180) CO = 1.8 (limit is 1.2) My last theory is that I had air leaks at the throttle body gasket (you could hear them using some Tygon tubing as a stethoscope). A little Hondabond sealant fixed this. But I think the air leaks may have resulted in rich running for so long that the O2 sensor was fouled. I did some checking of the O2 sensor and it was not bouncing around 0.45 volts the way certain web sites said it should. So my next step would have been to put in a new O2 sensor. If a new sensor would not fix it, then I think I would have done a compression test and seen if the engine was just too old and worn to pass emissions. Miles per gallon was still pretty good when I sold it, so it is hard to say. At honda-tech.com I think the threads that are left unresolved most often are the smog ones for the older Hondas. > With 321,000 miles on it. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Oh sure, lord it over us who can't get passed. Well, now that spring is here, I'll start diagnosing my O2 sensor. Maybe even risk the cash to replace it blindly. > With 321,000 miles on it. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Results here: > <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/91_integra_emissions.html> Just for comparison, my 97 Accord Wagon EX (185000 miles) just passed its UK MOT emissions test again with the following: Fast idle test: CO 0.09% (limit 0.20%) HC 13ppm (limit 200ppm) Idle test: CO 0.13% (limit 0.30%) As you can see, we don't have an NO test, or a 25mph test, or test HC at idle, so we're obviously not as fussy. As far as I know the cat and other emissions components have not been replaced ever on this car. I get about 27mpg mostly. Nonetheless, I was as happy as ever to pass emissions for another year. The only thing I failed on was the two number plate bulbs, which were working but "not bright enough"... Al Reynolds >> With 321,000 miles on it. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > CO 0.09% (limit 0.20%) > HC 13ppm (limit 200ppm) <snip> What exactly is "fast idle" as defined by your MoT? SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> Just for comparison, my 97 Accord Wagon EX (185000 miles) just passed >> its UK MOT emissions test again with the following: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What exactly is "fast idle" as defined by your MoT? When you first turn on the car, it idles at about 1500-1800 rpm for a short period, and then settles to about 700rpm. The first period is the "fast idle" period. Al >>> Just for comparison, my 97 Accord Wagon EX (185000 miles) just >>> passed its UK MOT emissions test again with the following: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > short period, and then settles to about 700rpm. The first period is > the "fast idle" period. At hot idle (when the cat is actually functioning) that initial elevated RPM lasts for only two seconds or so, just long enough to get the oil pressure up quickly. I'm really surprised they'd try to test you on such a short duration. AFAIK, no North American jurisdiction attempts such a thing. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > At hot idle (when the cat is actually functioning) that initial elevated > RPM lasts for only two seconds or so, just long enough to get the oil > pressure up quickly. I'm really surprised they'd try to test you on such a > short duration. > > AFAIK, no North American jurisdiction attempts such a thing. OK thought I'd check this out properly as I wasn't sure of my facts. Turns out I was wrong - according to the MOT manual at: http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_730.htm "fast idle test: Raise the engine speed to a fast idle between 2500 and 3000rpm and hold steady. Note the readings for CO, HC and lambda, and record the results." So it's a held fast idle. Al >> At hot idle (when the cat is actually functioning) that initial >> elevated RPM lasts for only two seconds or so, just long enough to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > So it's a held fast idle. That's not "idle" by /any/ stretch. I think their terminology is a bit suspect. It actually sounds like a no-load test at cruising RPM's, which is probably being done in lieu of a dyno test. Maybe your MoT dynos are not set up for emissions testing. A typical North American off-idle test is the ASM2525, which uses a dyno to impose a 25% load on the engine at a speedometer reading of 25mph. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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